Archery Kit!

[TGEvans]

Hi all. Some info please?I have dabbled with Archery for over twenty years both as a kid and in adulthood through my job as a Youth Worker. By dabbled I mean three or four times a year. So no real experience. Here is my issue where I need some input! Between becoming a Dad recently and a job with quite demanding hours I have no real time to join a club even though I had had numerous offers from a few different places.
I want to get myself some kit! I have access to plenty of land and also to attend club session when I can fit them in. The question is though,do I need to spend lots of cash to get something that will serve me for a long time or will something middle of the road be enough? I dont like buying cheap equipment with anything I do, even if it means waiting a bit to save. I am quite concrened also about the strength of pull issue. I was once a competitive weighlifter/strongman/judoka so am a bit stronger than the average bear and feel I would progress quite quickly to a heavier pound bow. All a bit confusing for me so this will probably make no sense for you guys! I would be a after a Good quality Recurve, Like the look of the Hoyt and Bear stuff, but any info on any of the above would be great! Sorry to be so long winded, Tim.

 

[Grooveski]

Last thing you want to do is get too heavy a bow to begin with. If you reckon you'll build up to a heavy one quickly(say 55-60lb) then you could maybe start at 45 or so.
It's far more satisfying hitting the target with a bow you can draw easily than struggling with too heavy a draw. You may not even realise you're having a hard time until you try a lighter bow but......

If you lived a bit closer I'd say pop round and try some but that's out the question.
It's a really hard thing to judge without having met someone. I've had folk lift my heaviest bows at meets and draw them as easy as you like so it can happen.
Maybe if you stuck a photo of yourself up we'd have something to go on.

As for cheap bows - Yeah, there are plenty of good cheap bows. There are secondhand bows of various shapes and sizes and Samick and the likes know how to make a good new bow for a decent price.
...but it's more about matching the bow to the person - price isn't a factor really.

If it's of any worth, every meet I go to folk fall in love with my old Hoyt Gold Medalist. Could have sold it a dozen times over. It's 45lb, 68-odd inches, has fibre pins for 20 out to 50m, no weights fitted and thin camo tape hiding the fact that the limbs were white once. If I had to recommend a setup blind that'd have to be it, just based on how many folk have got on well with it.

 

[PeterH]

The OP said he wanted a good quality recurve and was relatively inexperienced. IMHO 45lbs is too heavy a draw weight "in the blind" so to speak.

The generally accepted way to go is buy the best quality riser and then good but not the best limbs and exchange them until you reach a comfortable consistent draw with accurate shot which could take you several years if ever as you only shoot 3 or 4 times a year. You are looking at a not insignificant investment so I would say get yourself along to a reputable archery shop or a club coach and get properly measured up and personal advice as far too many people end up injured via guessing and ill advised online purchases. Good archery shops will operate a limb exchange scheme for developing archers using basic limbs. If you buy carbon limbs they are not likely to do that though!

I shot at 38lb limbs freestyle and 32lb limbs barebow on 68/66" bows respectively, 27.25 draw and ACC 3-04L arrows outdoors xx75 indoors, 60/70m was my limit outdoors but I was fine with that. Thanks to work it is about 18 months since I have shot though :-(

If you don't want to do that then your height and accurate drawlength (which does not change with the poundage) would be a good start but to be honest advice needs to be face to face.

 

[21st century pict]

35 lbs is a good weight to learn on, much heaver and you will be under to much tension and pressure to learn to shoot straight with a good technique and form. just get a cheap fibreglass bow to learn on, take your time and choose a good bow when you get enough experience to choose the right bow, at the right price, you will never need a bow more than 50lbs, unless you want to shoot clout. Have a look at 3 rivers archery USA lots of good kit.
A good top end TD recurve £300-£500 Plus.

.Border Black Douglas TD with bolt on Selway quiver.

 

[PeterH]

Looking at your profile maybe Wales Archery are reasonably close, they have a good rep. Quicks are a long established supplier who have a good rep and real shops with knowledgable staff. Others are available as they say....

 

[TGEvans]

Thanks for the great information guys. I will be taking a trip to Wales Archery as soon as I get the time. Tried out two Club type bows yesterday, one at 28lb and one at 35lb. They both felt comfortable to be honest. I will try out as much kit as possible before I make a purchase though and get to some club sessions as often as possible. Is there much difference in the materials used between different priced bows? Only reason I ask is that I shoot and fish and dont believe that you need to spend huge amounts of money on shotguns or rods to get something tough,reliable and perfoms well. Would the same apply to archery???? Thanks again, Tim.

 

[Doc]

Fred Bear used to recommend 45lb for an adult male beginner. Of course that was in the States where hunting is big and the target archery scene small.

Really depends on if you're going down the target archery or field archery route.

I do think you develop better form with a lighter bow.

I have probably below-average upper body strength. I shoot a 45lb Bear recurve (1968 vintage). In summer, shooting every evening, I have no problems at all, can shoot it all evening without discomfort or my form deteriorating. However, if I don't shoot regularly it sure feels heavier, and I tend to limit myself to 12-20 arrows at a time for the first week until I'm back into the swing.

For field/hunting bows, if I had the money I would buy a Border or perhaps a Black Widow.

 

[21st century pict]

There is one dude at my club, shoots a 2 piece Black widow flat bow, just superb to shoot no hand shock or noise, from the 2 piece fit handle, really sweet ,so its 50-50 between the Black Widow and Border, I’ve herd of people in the States buying a big bucks top end riser from Black widow then sending it to Scotland to fit a set of top end limbs, now that's how to spend cash. But there are a ton of good bowyers out there Tomahawk, Great planes, Martin, Bear, Blackbrook, just to mention a few. Have a good look round before you fork out any cash.

 

[boatman]

Why a recurve? Longbows shoot sweeter and when you hit with a bare bow there is a lot more satisfaction. Starter bows £70-80ish then up and up depending on wood and the bowyer.
I have no connection with them but have always got a square deal from http://www.archery-centre.co.uk/

 

[Grooveski]

Personaly I reckon anyone who describes themselves as 'stronger than the average bear' deserves to be taken at their word. I only know a couple of people who fit that bill and the idea that they might hurt themselves drawing 45lb is frankly laughable.
For example, JamesOConner(who's not on the forum these days but was once a regular at the Scottish meets) used a 60lb bow all weekend for his very first archery session.
I'm wary any time someone lifts one of my heavier bows so had him draw and hold for ten seconds. Not a shimmy - not a wobble.
By the end of the weekend - no ill effects whatsoever. He could simply draw that bow as easily as an average person can draw a 40lb one.

As for cost. My Samick KB60 isn't far off being a clone of my Border Reiver. The Reiver cost five times that of the Samick but isn't five times the bow. It's quicker(by about 12%), feels nicer to use, doesn't stack whatsoever(the samick does a touch), is probably more consistant than I'll ever be and is an exquisite piece of craftmanship....
....not that the Samick is rough at the edges - and my Samick Lightning(basically a cheap Black Douglas clone) is a nicer piece of wood than the KB60 but that doesn't stop me fancying a Black Douglas though, lol.

You pay a premium for top of the range, whether it's worth it is down to the individual.

With target recurves....
Well, I could sit my fifteen year old Hoyt GM next to a new GMX and it won't look particularly dated yet every year there have been tweaks and overhauls. I know fine well that the GMX would outshoot the GM but then the GM outshoots me as it is anyway so have never seen any need to upgrade.
Have watched the progression of models though and there seems to be a fashion element that drives the market that's not there with other bow types - Honeycomb billets, Hoyts wrap-around riser braces and other fads have come and gone, all claiming to be the next big thing, but the only one that's really stuck is CNC risers and that's likely because the manufacturars are tooled up for them now and don't want to go back to casting.

Limbs are a different matter. I'd pay the premium for limbs. The ones that came with the GM weren't bad(middle of the road). They've done me a long time but have always had a hankering to slap a set of of same weight Border maple/carbons on because I know they'd tranform the feel of the bow.
One day perhaps....


Compounds are different again. My old Barnett doesn't hold a candle to the PSE I use these days. Had I bought the PSE new it'd also have been about five times the price of the cheap one but honestly I think it is five times the bow.
It's not that I prefer compounds(I don't), it's just that limb and cam design has come a long way. Modern cheap compounds aren't a patch on their more expensive relatives and one arrow is all it takes to see it.

Interesting what Peter was saying about limb trading deals in shops. If they do something like that at the shop you could maybe think about buying a lower poundage setup secondhand. That'd get you a quality riser at at decent price then you could upgrade the limbs.
By the way, don't buy stabilisers. If you wan't some I have a longrod and v-bars here that came with the GM. They're good gear in good nick and I'll never use them(the reception's terrible round here). You can have them for the postage cost.

Should you end up around the 45lb mark - 2016 alloys fly well and don't break the bank. Easton do them in their Platinum Plus range(among others).

Sorry to drone on. Hope some of it's of use. I agree with everyone else who's posted but just feel that they may be underestimating your strength by a fair factor.

Envy you the visit to a proper archery shop. There's none round here.
Probably just as well. I'm bad enough as it is without a candy shop nearby.

 

[21st century pict]

For a beginner It doesn’t have anything to do with strength, I started with a 60lb bow and it never done me any harm, it never did me any favours as a shooter ether. Howard Hill said if you shoot a heavy bow you will never learn to shoot a bow with any skill, Learn to shoot first then go get a tank if that’s what you want.
Get a beginner to come up to full draw with a 45-60lb bow and then expect a nice focused aim and clean smooth release, and still have time to correct his technique. Way too much for a beginner id rather start him light.
As for the limbs Grooveski your spot on there, pay top dollar and get the best,that’s where all the technology is.

Ps I shoot a Reiver and I wouldn’t swap it for 5 Samick’s.

 

[Grooveski]

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to start on a 60lb bow. 45lb was my suggestion.

 

[21st century pict]

I started to heavy, but you may very well be right the man might be a tank.

 

[Grooveski]

I started too heavy as well in a way. Was a mad keen climber at the time then hurt my ankle. Drifted away from climbing into canoeing, the strength dropped off and I had to drop 10lb in my comfortable draw weight. There was an inbetween phase where I struggled a bit.

These days I have to practice hard to use the couple of bows that I have left over from then but when I do the added oomph makes me smile every time.

I agree with absolutely everything you've said. It's just that teaching James yon time was an eye opener. Although a big lad his draw length wasn't excessive(less than 30" as that's all my arrows are) so he had the choice of any of the bows there. I had him try the Hoyt but there would have been no point in trying him on Gregorach's 35lb-odd pound target bow(which most of the learners were using).
In end I just let him use the Reiver like he'd wanted to in the first place and used the Hoyt myself. Have to say I was a little jealous, he was not only drawing it easier than I ever have but had an inch or so more of it. Was a natural as well and growing up as a shooter understood every tip he got for what it was.
OK, maybe I was more than a little jealous.

 

[TGEvans]

My "Stronger than the average Bear" quote bas meant to be a joke sorry! What was meant is that I condition quite quickly and thought that the poundage issue with a bow would mean that someone who was stronger than the poundage allowed would damage the bow in some way, leading me to think that I would be changing limbs too often! Sorry if I came across as a fool! Im ok really!Honest! Got lots of homework to do with the information already provided so I thank you all! T

 

[Grooveski]

It's cool. The guy at the shop will keep you right anyway.

As has been said by everyone you don't want to go too high. Going too low isn't a problem...
...but it is a bit of a waste. Especially as you have access to land. You're more likely than your average target shooter to feel like chucking arrows across fields for the hell of it or trying to sneak them under branches.
What you're after is optimum draw weight. Low enough that you can just pick up and use the bow without having to train beforehand. High enough that if you decide you want to lob big heavy tough arrows about with judos on them you can do that too.

 

[Rob]

If you are a relatively active and healthy chap, you should get away with something 40-45lb (if you have a 28" draw). It will keep you happy longer than a 28/30lb training bow.

If you don't mind takedown recurves, you can always upgrade the limbs and sell the old ones on to help fund the purchase. Recurve is a good way to learn - but then you will do your head in for a while when you shoot round the handle on a longbow

If you are able to get to a session with a coach/club/experienced archer they can make sure that your form is good and you shouldn't do yourself any harm. I cant remember if Wales Archery has a range or not. You might even be able to get the once over from someone there.

I started with just a few hours with a 30lb recurve, then went on to a samik (short but 40lbs). That kept me going until i moved to a 59lb Saggi AFB.

If your form is right and you do it regularly, you can go up as far as you see sensible (or otherwise). Nothing to stop you having a go with something heavier sometimes - but you wont want to shoot as many arrows I can have great fun with a 137lb mongolian bow - but i am damn careful with it and give up before i break something.

 

[Doc]

Modern field bows are mostly takedowns, and the target bows are all takedowns. It is handy to be able to upgrade the limbs, and if you're going to competitions (or abroad for bowhunting) or buying from abroad it makes life easier.

But the old one piece bows are rather nice. In North America, the hunters have mostly switched to compounds, which are undeniably more accurate, more powerful, and easier to shoot well. The older one piece recurves are often available cheaply - although if it says Bear or Browning on it the collector market is pushing prices up. However, even after half a century, they do shoot well, and are often beautiful, made with exotic hardwood risers that would be very expensive today.

I have a Samick takedown field bow (made in China) but I have to say I prefer the old Bear.