anyone made containers with elder?

[RAPPLEBY2000]

anyone made containers with elder?


i saw some huge bits the other day that if holowed out would be fine for storage of tinder of berries.

 

[bloodline]

I always avoid it, it seems to pong a bit

 

[Moonraker]

RAPPLEBY, just be careful when considering uses for elder, especially edibility and food storage, as it contains toxins in most parts of the plant. I posted details on this thread for more info:

Eating from Natures larder

It may well be that the toxins are not an issue with seasoned/ dried timber but I can't be certain of that.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

woah, just read your thread,
i've been eating them raw for ages, with no affect at all! i've had loads! mabey i have a tolarence for them?

i knew the rest of the plant was poisonus!.

prehaps i won't store my sweeties in it then!

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, I have made a small container from elder - to hold a spare smoke for emergencies. I 've been planing on making some more for holding herbs and spices, kind of a bushcraft spice rack, but I've just acquired a bunch of little medical sample containers (unused ) that will do the job even better.

Anyway, I just cleaned out an appropriately sized elder tube, found a stick that was the right size to plug the ends, glued one plug in with pine resin, and made the other plug into a little stopper. To get a good seal I laid a couple of turns of string, twisted from plumbers hemp and waxed with beeswax, into a groove in the stopper. Finished it off with wax to ensure waterproofness, a bit of whipping on each end more for decoration than anything else, and a loop to hang it round your neck. I might have to replace that bit though, as the rough hemp string isn't very comfortable.

 

[rich59]

I did make an elder tube container for an elder hand drill ! I used an large bore elder stick and split it in half. I chose a smaller diameter stick as the drill. Part of the design was to use the outer tube also as the hearth board.

Did it look good? Yes

Was it practical? No. A curved hearth board has some technical problems. The small diameter drill was really too narrow to be a good drill.


I also recently made a set of pan pipes from elder. I could say then that my elder tubes contain music?

 

[Biddlesby]

I've eaten raw berries too....although not in large quantities. I won't any more though! Are the raw flowers inedible as well?

[edit] Now I'm very confused. This site, in reference to dwarf elder, says

juice of the berries mixed with a third by weight of genuine liquorice powder, with a few drops of Oil of Aniseeds.....

Then

Because of its drastic action only the leaves are used. The berries are toxic...the root is also a drastic purgative.

You say that the leaves are poisonous in elder, does this mean you believe this source to be incorrect in using leaves, or that leaves are not poisonous in dwarf elder.

 

[Moonraker]

I've eaten raw berries too....although not in large quantities. I won't any more though! Are the raw flowers inedible as well?

[edit] Now I'm very confused. This site, in reference to dwarf elder, says

Then

You say that the leaves are poisonous in elder, does this mean you believe this source to be incorrect in using leaves, or that leaves are not poisonous in dwarf elder.

Please provide links to quotes for reference.

Digitalis from foxgloves is a natural medicine used regularly, but will also kill you. The use of any natural ingredients should be avoided unless you are fully aware of their uses and potential dangers.

Elder leaves are certainly toxic as are dwarf elder leaves. That toxicity is also the source of it's medicinal property. In fact so are the raw fruit, especially if the seeds are crushed (chewed for example), despite some people reporting eating them with no ill effects. Heating the berries destroys most of the toxicity, hence their use in wines and pies etc.

To be clear on this, here is the official line from the government MAFF (now DEFRA) book 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi' says:

Elder (Sambucus nigra)

Elder is a common deciduous shrub, occasionally a tree, that grows in waste places, hedges and scrub in most parts of Britain, except northern Scotland. Some elders are cultivated in gardens. The bark is grey and deeply furrowed on older parts. The wood is not strong, as there is a large area of pith in the branches and twigs. The leaves consist of several, usually oval, pointed leaflets arranged in pairs on either side of the stalk. Many small, creamy-white flowers form in flat-topped clusters in summer and develop into characteristic hanging bunches of dark reddish-black, spherical fruits, usually considerably less than 1 cm (1/2 in) across.

Dwarf elder or danewort (Sambucus ebulus), although a related plant, is not a woody shrub like the elder, but has similar leaflets and flowers, sometimes pinkish white, and black fruits in autumn.

• POISONOUS SUBSTANCES Sambucus species contain a substance that causes vomiting and diarrhoea, and also cyanide-producing glycosides; all parts are poisonous.

• POISONING Human poisoning is most likely to occur from eating raw berries; even a few berries could lead to nausea, vomiting, stomach pains, diarrhoea, weakness and coma. In 1983, fruit juice, prepared by crushing elder berries, with their leaves, caused symptoms of poisoning within 15 minutes in a party of people in a remote area of California; the eight most severely affected had to be flown to hospital by helicopter but all recovered quickly.

Presumably because of its bitter taste, animals generally do not eat Sambucus, but symptoms similar to those of human poisoning have been seen in pigs that ate the leaves. In one outbreak 14 of 50 pigs died; they had rapid breathing ad heart rate, trembling and paralysis.

Professional advice should be sought if the symptoms are severe.

• NOTE Heating destroys most of the toxicity, and flowers and berries used for wine making or in pies are not harmful.

source: MAFF book 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi' ISDN: 0-11-242718-9, HSMO, 1998, page 33

Elder is a good example of how common misconceptions are propagated; how some knowledge can be fatal and proper understanding of plants can provide us with food and medicine in the wild.

As ever, IF IN DOUBT, LEAVE IT OUT!

 

[Biddlesby]

Cheers for clearing that up. Meant to put the link in (even wrote "this site"), doh'. Here it is.

 

[underground]

Moonraker,, I have made copious quantities of wine from Elderberries, unheated, with no ill effects. Comments please.....

 

[Moonraker]

Moonraker,, I have made copious quantities of wine from Elderberries, unheated, with no ill effects. Comments please.....

Well, I can only refer you to the government scientists who put together the MAFF poisons book. It may be that fermentation also reduces low level toxicity but I am not sure on that. There are recorded medical cases of people suffering badly from ingesting raw juice and berries, notably diverticulitis in some people.

From reading, it seems the toxicity of the berries and flowers is lower than the leaves, roots and bark. But then with all plants levels of chemicals, including toxins will vary according to many factors such as season, location, soil type, species diversity etc. So, what may be OK for one person may not be for another, especially when we consider dosage (for instance what does not effect an adult, may well cause problems in kids). Like many toxins they may be rendered harmless by treatment but one should be aware of the potential dangers.

In the end we can eat what we wish, but generally we should show as much respect for wild plants as we do for fungi.

Perhaps the words of a famous herbalist will provide further evidence of the plants toxicity:

The first shoots of the Common Elder boiled like asparagus, and the young leaves and stalks boiled in fat broth, do mightily carry forth phlegm and choler. The middle or inward bark boiled in water, and given in drink works much more violently; and the berries, either green or dry, expel the same humour, and are often given with good success to help the dropsy; the bark of the root boiled in wine, or the juice there of drank, works the same effects, but much more powerfully than either the leaves or fruit. The juice of the root taken, mightily procures vomiting, and purges the watery humours of the dropsy...

Nicholas Culpeper, 17th century herbalist

He doesn't make it sound too appetising does he

I am sure you make delicious wine and I love elderflower champagne, so the processes involved and levels of toxins must be sufficiently reduced for consumption.

 

[underground]

So, what may be OK for one person may not be for another, especially when we consider dosage (for instance what does not effect an adult, may well cause problems in kids). Like many toxins they may be rendered harmless by treatment but one should be aware of the potential dangers.

In the end we can eat what we wish, but generally we should show as much respect for wild plants as we do for fungi.

Agreed, very wise sentiments, better to go into the field suitably informed and avoid any difficulties where possible rather than having to deal with them subsequently...