Anyone know anything about electrics?

[outdoorgirl]

Other than 'get a professional to do it'?

Had the ceiling in the kitchen re-plastered yesterday. When the plasterer took the light fitting off so as to do a proper job, he found that the cable only had two wires (live/neutral; no earth), and that the outer sheath had at some point completely melted! It was all hard and brittle, and in places showing bare wires!

:yikes:

We now have the lighting circuit switched off. I (of course) called an electrician as soon as he found it (midday yesterday) but no joy in getting anyone round yet...

I now face the prospect of some time using candles and the cost of having the electrician try and route a new cable in place of the old one... ...and there was I thinking we'd have the house ready to market next week....

 

[BorderReiver]

Nasty

You might be wise to have the whole house checked.Real risk of fire

 

[Tengu]

Yikes that sounds very old wiring.

It looks like you need the house COMPLETLEY rewired if its all like that.

Its a proffesional job Im afraid, or else finding a competent amatuer and then getting it checked by a pro....

 

[Goose]

I agree with Tengu and Border Reiver, too risky to do it yourself, have ALL the wiring checked, if it goes up for sale it will probably have to be done anyway.
I know it wasn't what you wanted to hear,sorry!

 

[Lurch]

Yikes that sounds very old wiring.

Not necessarily. Plus I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of earth on the lighting circuit.
Might get lucky and find it's just a crappy job done on a single light fitting by a previous occupier.
On t'other hand of course.....

 

[outdoorgirl]

I'm really hoping it isn't the whole house. Tomorrow morning I'll check the cable in the living room, which I was going to work on anyway as it needs a new ceiling rose...

I'm away on business for a couple of days, so hopefully Andy can get the sparks to come out on Monday and fix it...

I know the sockets are all OK as I had those done when I moved in; there weren't any problems with them, I just wanted more sockets - no problems were found with the cables then, so hopefully this is just a one-off...

 

[Lifthasir]

Hi there..I did my 16th Edition as a part-time thing a couple of years ago and have re-wired my kitchen and garage onto seperate circuits.

Houses built in the 60's had light circuits without earth wires. I'm not sure when the Regs changed, but my Mum's house is still like this. As pvc cable (or perhaps older
cable) ages, it becomes brittle. It also becomes brittle if heated. It is quite likely that the cable close to a light fitting become brittle for this reason (heat). It is not
necessarily the end of the world if the cable a few inches further away is ok. If it is, simply strip it back and re-terminate. Before you disconnect the cable from
the light fitting, take digital photos or make and accurate sketch of what goes
where.

Recently, electrical wiring became part of Building Regs and major work
requires either planning permission or certification be an approved body. You
can do somework yourself however.

If you PM me, I may be able to offer more info. Or at least let you know if an electrician is trying to rip you off.

 

[Lore]

Earth wires are required where metal light fittings (mains voltage) are used. The standard ceiling rose and lamp holder made from plastic never used to have an earth wire. The earth wire is included in modern circuits. A plastic ceiling rose will only have a live and neutral going to the lampholder. The earth if present will continue to loop through the whole circuit. If you do not want to use the old light fitting and as Lifthasir has said that after stripping the wire back to do away with the damaged part you can use a connector block and insulating tape to make the live and neutral save you can then turn the lighting on so that the rest of your lights will work. Lighing circuits can be tricky and you can sometimes get a live current even when the switch is off. Always turn of at the mains before you touch any part of the circuit.

 

[Lifthasir]

If you are selling your house, the purchaser may pay for an electrical survey.
Take this with a pinch of salt. It is a matter of fact that anything re-wired as little as 2 years ago may no longer conforms to current requirements. This doesn't
mean that the installation is unsafe, nor that it needs to be completely rewired.

I would advise replacing exact like for like in your light fitting. If you can't - get someone who knows what they are doing.

To overcome the lack of an earth wire (correctly term is Circuit Protective
Conductor) an electrician will connect a 4mm 'earth cable' (green/yellow) from
your Main Earth Terminal to all of light fittings and junction boxes on your circuit.
This is classed as a major change as it must be determined if 4mm cable is
sufficient for your installation - as such the work must be carried out be a
competent and someone who is 'Part P'.

As Lore said, turn off the whole circuit at the consumer unit (fuse box) either by
tripping the circuit breaker or removing the fuse. If in doubt, switch the whole
thing off or if you are nervous, leave it - don't take a chance!!!

 

[outdoorgirl]

Thanks guys...

I left the circuit switched off overnight and have been checking out the other light fittings this morning. The living room has two cables, both with earths, and uses a pendant fitting.

The dining room has three cables, all earthed, and fix into a connector block (live and neutral - all three red wires go into the same fixing; the three black wires are separated so that two wires go into one fitting and the last one is separate - looks a bit like the way a pendant is wired, except that it was wired to two spotlights). The three earths all fix into a separate (ceramic?) block.

I can't figure out where the cable for the kitchen has come from, as it's the only one without an earth, and has a black sheath, whereas all the others are grey or white.

It's a real pain that these things only ever get found on a weekend when you can't get anyone to come out!

Edit: OK, so I've looked at the cable that attaches to the actual light switch on the wall in the kitchen, and it looks the same as the one on the celing fitting. Since there's only one cable coming down from the ceiling, how does this work? Does this mean there's a junction box somewhere in the wall/ceiling that connects to another cable?

I'm guessing that the circuit is:
consumer unit to living room ceiling fitting (2nd cable to wall switch)
LR fitting to dining room fitting; 2nd cable to wall switch, 3rd cable to ? (could be to a second wall switch in the dining room that used to feed an outside light)