Any Cycle Tourists on here? Bike advice being sought.

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,410
1,698
Cumbria
Need to replace my stolen bike (no insurance, d'oh!). It was a nice specialized hybrid kitted out for touring, commuting and family leisure use (Hamax child seat bracket and Burley trailer hitch). Had it for 1.5 years and am in mourning, not least because I feel it is my fault it got nicked.

Anyway, I am now looking to go back to a drop handled bike and think a tourer is best. I know a CXer makes a decent tourer, commuter, general leisure bike and is also good for off road up to a certain level determined by the rider's skill levels. I don't want a crosser since I feel it time to grow old and go for comfort which IMHO means a tourer. Plus the ones I tried before tend to be short in length, I got the right bike size but my toes kept getting caught by the front wheel due to a kind of squashed up geometry. It was a big enough bike, the biggest size (well I am 6'5" tall so always go for the biggest sized bikes).

I only have about £600 to £800 if I squeeze my bank account hard enough. I was not insured so this expense was not planned.

I need drop handles because of the many hand positions it allows. I have dodgy wrists and elbows at times and found the flat bars of my stolen bike a bit painful after a few hours riding. Don't like butterfly bars. I do like drops, it's what I have been used to for nearly 30 years now.

Anyone got any recommendations? Seriously I wish I could afford a Genesis Croix de Fer or even a Tour de Fer and even better a nice Thorn cycle but my budget rules that out. I would seriously be stretching it at £800 so please anything good below that then I would appreciate the heads up.

I'm especially hoping to hear from the tourers on here. It would get mostly used for commuting and riding with family (toddler and partner). We have been planning to try touring so I am looking at a bike for that but it should be good for the main use too. My partner is a reasonably experienced tourer having done a bit in Columbia through to China and Eastern Europe. Longest was probably 3 or 4 months round China on a reasonably sound Chinese attempt at a MTB. Her touring has always been on a mountain bike because, well I guess it was really rough roads so made sense. We are not going to be doing that choosing nice cycle routes like Danube route. However UK country lanes and forest tracks / easy trails are going to be ridden too. I think a 700x28-35 tyre with 36 spoke rear wheel (could get away with 32 front I reckon) would cope well in a steel framed bike.

Anyone know about the different Reynolds tubing? 520, 525, 753, 953, etc.? I've seen a 4 digit number for the Cro Moly forks on one too, 4130 I think but probably wrong. I think 753 (or is that 725?) is heat treated so is pretty good for tourers but not sure I can get it at that price. It was easy 25 years ago when I got my old road bike. The standard good tubing was 531 but if you couldn't afford it then 501 was your last resort with Reynolds framesets.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,410
1,698
Cumbria
Yes, used to think that was THE tourer to get when I was a kid. Now I think Dawes has been diluted as a quality brand a bit. I am still not convinced by their Al version of the Galaxy. It is that one in my price range I think and I'm not sure it is the best bang for it's bucks. It is of course the classic tourer especially if you can afford the ultra version.

Anyone heard of a type of bike called trekkers or trekking bikes? I think they are popular on the continent more. Basically a kind of 700 wheeled hybrid with all the kit fitted as standard. So it is a hybrid with racks, guards, hub dynamos and lights, frame pump (attached to the inside of the seat stays out of the way) and bike propstand. I think I have seen a 13-14kg one from Cube. I think they sound interesting.

One thing I've spotted about the Galaxy there is one in the £600 level in Al and another in CroMo 4130 at £700 (both reduced at Evans Cycles). They also do a flat bar. oput of these there is a mixed bag of kit. In some ways the cheaper Al Galaxy seems better than the more expensive CroMoly version but mostly kit goes with price. The flat bar does look a lot better than the Al drop bar one for the same price, but then it seems to let itself down badly on other kit.

Personally I am not sure Dawes is giving a good deal for kit nowadays.

I go to much into things. I need to find something that will do and then stop looking. If I do that I might stop finding more options and be able top buy a bile not just spend my time confusing the hell out of myself comparing specs.

Also bike brands need to get together and sort out which gear is best. Claris, Sora, FD2300, FD2401, etc. Please give it a name and at least with a bit of googling I can find out how they rank. Then there is the mixing front road gears with rears from mountain bikes. IIRC its something to do with the shorter derailleur but I am probably wrong.

In some ways I'd prefer if Shimano and all the other gear mech makers just name their kit as R1 to R9 say for their top road mech and their bottom road mech for example. Then same with MTB you go M1 to M9 or whatever. That way if a bike has R6 front and M5 rear you know how the road and off road mech rate in approximate quality/performance. Now I am an out and out geek who does actually like to geek out from time to time but with having to actually get the new bike sorted quickly now (family pressures gives me little time to truly search hard) I don't have time for this.

Sorry rant over.

If anyone can advise what £600 to £800 should get me and what is good or not good so I can quickly get to the bottom of this choice I would be grateful.

PS bike forums are not really helpful with budgets less than £1k I've learnt hence I reverted to my ever helpful BCUK forum. Never been let down whether it has been cars bushy stuff or even HRMs. I have always had good replies and advice. Cheers everyone.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
45
North Yorkshire, UK
You should try yacf. Plenty of people on there who have cheap bikes. Currently a member of that forum is attempting the round the year record, on what are essential steel touring bikes. The only expensive bits he has are his wheels.

Do take a look at the edinburgh cycles tourer that I linked to. It is highly regarded as being very good value for money.


As for components . . .
Yes, Shimano stuffed us all up. They ditched support for triple fronts with their road bar shifters, then made the MTB front derailleurs incompatible with road bar shifters. Gits. There is supposed to be an 8-speed version out sometime.

However not all is lost. Mixes of manufacturer's gear can get you modern brake/gear levers on drop bars plus a triple with wide range rear gears.
Or you can go for a double on the front, replacing some of the rings and the rear cassette. I currently run 46/34 on the front with 12-30 on the rear. This is with Tiagra shifter and derailleurs.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
45
North Yorkshire, UK
tbh, i'm kind of negative about Dawes.
The Super Galaxy is assembled in this country and is reputedly good. It's also nearly double your budget.

A friend really likes her Horizon, but she has had skilled friends basically reassemble it for her.

Evans bike shops will offer free trial rides and will even order bikes in for you test.
Edinburgh cycle cooperative do the same.

Which city are you near? I can ask friends for a recommendation for a bike shop in that area.
 

fredster

Forager
Oct 16, 2009
202
0
Ipswich, Suffolk
I'd say that the Edinburgh Cycles tourer that MrCharly links to looks pretty good value for money, although 15kg seems a little heavy to me. My full suss MTB is 3kg lighter than that and its not a mega expensive one.

Agree with the comments above re Dawes, they're not what they were. When I cycle-tour I borrow my brother's 80's Galaxy, what a piece of work that is. Are you not tempted to buy a 2nd hand 'proper' Galaxy? Easy enough to update with a few modern components (v-brakes, indexed gears etc). Here's a cheap one on ebay at the mo:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dawes-Gal...1661568661?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item27f7d3aa95

Needs a bit of updating perhaps but at that price you would have a fair bit of budget left for that. Personally I'd put a Nexus hub gear on it and v-brakes, I'm no fan of canti's.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,410
1,698
Cumbria
tbh, i'm kind of negative about Dawes.
The Super Galaxy is assembled in this country and is reputedly good. It's also nearly double your budget.

A friend really likes her Horizon, but she has had skilled friends basically reassemble it for her.

Evans bike shops will offer free trial rides and will even order bikes in for you test.
Edinburgh cycle cooperative do the same.

Which city are you near? I can ask friends for a recommendation for a bike shop in that area.

I'm over in Lancaster area. There's edge cycleworks, leisure lakes and Halfords. Then in Kendal there's Evans, Halfords and Brucies bike shop. Wheelbase is close and I'm often in Ambleside so there's Ghyllside cycles (specialise in touring) and biketrek (don't like because they seem elitist, I.e. not interested for less than £1300 or so). There's a new shop there that's really high end, practically boutique standards!
There's something Ingleton way IIRC that is half hour from me too. Then if I go to Settle and Skipton I think there's some decent ones there as well.

I'm really shopping around but I reckon most of the shops seem to sell the same small frame range of bike brands.
I'm interested in Edinburgh co-op and they have Leeds as nearest shop. I could try to pop in when I next visit my sister in Weatherby. Could perhaps drop into Harrogate too on way to Weatherby, Spa cycles is there IIRC and they're touring specialists too.
I used to live between Blackburn and Preston as a kid, then before that I was south of Preston. Back then Ribble was just a normal bike shop with a bike builder working there IIRC.

I've had the specialized diverge recommended. It replaces the Tricross and IIRC the secteur. Sort of between the two. 700x30 tyres, Claris mech and BBc mechanical disc brakes. Relaxed/ slack head angle. Carbon forks with zertz inserts, it'll have a decent frame with guard/rack bosses. Just not sure as it's £750 which means not enough left to buy rack and guards. Also only 8 speed Claris mech. It's modern side tap shifters like Sora is now, not with the thumb shifter on the inside. 50t big ring with 11t smallest on cassette seems a big top gear to me. Decent granny gear despite only a compact chainring.
 

86inch

Tenderfoot
May 6, 2008
79
0
Lincolnshire
If you can grab hold of a second hand (hopefully nearly new) Surly Long Haul Trucker I think you will have found nirvana!

Fantastic frame. I have a 700c wheel LHT and I cant say enough positive things about it. Check out the many reviews.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,410
1,698
Cumbria
Been out looking at bikes again. It's a real pain seeing so many nice bikes just out of my budget. Wonder if I should stretch it a bit.

So far I'm thinking I'll change my emphasis to what it'll be used most for commuting with leisure rides. The touring side is extra, basically the bike is best to for road/light trail use but will take rack and cope with light touring. My ideas are specialized diverge at £750, whyte Ssussex, pinnacle arkose, fuji tread 1.1, Norco refresh A3 or back to my cheaper specialized Crosstrail Sport Disc replacement for my stolen bike. All are about £800 except the Crosstrail.hybrid at £550. The expensive bikes are kind of cyclocross bikes or sportive type of bike. Either way should be quick enough on road, cope with commuting and with slightly rougher roads or terrain.

For another couple of hundred I could get something really nice. I hate.temptation.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Have a gander at 29" mountain bikes, for that price you'll have something fairly light and it'll take any road touring you can throw at it.

You don't even need braze on's or a rack with the multitude of strap on luggage available these days
 

muffinski

Full Member
Aug 18, 2011
95
1
west Midlands
Plus 1 for the Surly long haul trucker. After lots of research went for this model if you shop around you can get last years model about £300 cheaper. If budget is main issue your best is to look around at the second hand market.
 

andibs

Forager
Jan 27, 2012
182
1
S. Yorks
Have a gander at 29" mountain bikes, for that price you'll have something fairly light and it'll take any road touring you can throw at it.

You don't even need braze on's or a rack with the multitude of strap on luggage available these days

I've just started cycling and have an old Dawes Giro that I stuck panniers on. I've just bought a Cannondale Trail 4 29rd. Do you reckon that would be better for up to 60 mile a day touring.

Cheers
Andy
 
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cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
I've just started cycling and have an old Dawes Giro that I stuck panniers on. I've just bought a Cannondale Trail 4 29rd. Do you reckon that would be better for up to 60 mile a day touring.

Cheers
Andy

It's tough to say what would be best for someone else Andy as what one person sees as an advantage another sees as a potential problem.

It's also tough to compare genre of bikes as geometry varies from model to model never mind brand to brand.

Generally speaking though a 29" MTB will have very relaxed stable geometry, which tends to be good for touring.
They also come with gear ratios that are intended for off-roading, which although usually means they're under geared for road work once we start strapping touring weigh to them the gearing works really well.

Disc brakes are also a major major advantage IMO.
It took me many many years to move over to disc brakes as i was concerned about reliability, in the 12 odd years i've been using them though i've not had a single failure or problem.

For a loaded up tourer i'd even go so far to say that they're pretty much essential.
Yes rim brakes work, through in some rain, road grit and a lonnngggggg downhill though and your loaded up tourer will eat through brake pads like a shark through seal.
Some folks see them as a extra thing to go wrong, but it's not like rim brakes are without problems.

It's the same with from suspension forks.
Some folks will see these as extra weight and something to go wrong.
In reality though they're extremely reliable, they do need regular maintenance but it's not like you'll need to do this mid-tour.

To be honest there isn't much of a advantage on-road with suspension forks, they do take some road buzz from your hands, but it's not really worth the extra effort on the uphills.
IF you intend to go on rougher tracks or poorer quality roads though they start to make a LOT more sense.

After saying alllll that the Dawes is still a cracking tourer and many riders have covered many miles on similar bikes.
The drops give you more hand positions than the straights on the MTB, i would argue that the hoods are not as comfortable as a decent set of grips on a straight set of bars, although again many riders put hundreds of miles on road bikes with drops, so no doubt they work.

If you fit slicks to the MTB there will be very very little in rolling resistance differences, tubs will run at higher pressures, but tubeless slicks on the MTB are going to be a lot less hassle.

For me personally the disc brakes, more relaxed geometry and tubeless tyres on wider rims would have me taking the MTB.
It's really what compromises work best for you though.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,410
1,698
Cumbria
Before my bike got stolen I was thinking of replacing the specialized grips with aftermarket ones with bar ends. That's to offer a change of grip. Although drops would offer more grip choices. The spesh grips have a nice flat bit but you can't attach aftermarket bar ends because of the grip.

A touring bike specialist shop I dropped into suggested a bar choice for flat bar bikes offering many grip options. Not butterfly bars but similar, they allow for angle changes at each bend so you get positional options without significantly changing body position overall. Or something like that. He said butterfly bars can make you move forward more kind of the idea of fitting flat bars on a drop bar bike or drops in a flat bar bike. Makes sense in a way. Ppl get bike fits to get best position on your bike so changing bar can alter best fit.
 

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