Another sharpening question...

[TomBartlett]

I'm able to consistently sharpen my tools to the point where they'll cleanly slice paper. I have a DC4 and one of Sheps 1000/6000 field kits. On the strop I use Brasso. However, I struggle to get them 'shaving' sharp (as a result my left arm is embarrassingly hairy!). Now I'm under the impression that the paper slice test means the edge is sharp enough for wood carving - the main task I put my tools to. Is there any advantage to getting tools shaving sharp, if so, any tips on getting there?

 

[sxmolloy]

If you go on youtube and watch Ray Mears sharpen his knife in camp, after stropping (his knife) he runs it over the edge of a car window.

I use this method as I believe it gives the blade a little 'bite'.

If you can slice paper though I imagine your knife is sharp enough for most jobs. If the car window thing fails I'm out of suggestions though.

Hope this helps

Stu

 

[sxmolloy]

Have a look at around 0:56 on this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRiJ_YnSCI

 

[TomBartlett]

Cheers Stu, yeah, I've heard that tip from a few places but never tried it myself. I think I might be a bit self conscious standing in the street next to my car running a knife up and down the window edge!

 

[sasquatch]

If you can slice paper you'll be able to carve. Running the blade across a window does give it a bit more bite but won't make it shaving sharp. If anything I'd be inclined to work on your stropping technique as once the bevel is set well on stones the shaving sharp will come from stropping.

 

[Corfe]

Does using a good quality steel have the same effect as stropping?

 

[sasquatch]

Like a chef's steel or Schrade Oldtime honesteel you mean? I think they have the same effect in the sense that you get a sharp knife with both. A chef/butcher doesn't strop to do food prep just like a woodworker or barber doesn't use a steel to do their thing. I figure you'd get the better carving edge from stones/stropping myself but a sharp edge is sharp regardless how you get there I guess.

 

[Hoodoo]

Does using a good quality steel have the same effect as stropping?

There are two types of steel. One has "teeth" and actually sharpens a knife, while the other is smooth and keeps a very thin edge "aligned." The smooth type is used commonly for food prep knives.

 

[mrcharly]

You can wash a steel. You can't really sterilize a strop.

When you say you can slice paper, can you do repeated slices?

A shaving edge is a polished push edge, and isn't as good at slicing paper as an edge with micro serrations.

 

[sasquatch]

Why would you need to sterilize a strop? I do some food prep with my normal knives and I strop them, they get cleaned after stropping before food prep. I also have a decent chef's knife that I use a steel on, that gets washed after as well to avoid wee bits of steel going into the prepped food. You can use whatever you like in the kitchen or field of course, it's just down to what you prefer or feel like using on the day.

 

[TomBartlett]

Repeated slices? I can do it more than once, if that's what you mean...

 

[FGYT]

Shaving sharp


i can shave hair if i sharpen on my grinder with 80gt and a quick buff to take the burrs off


a wood carving edge is for finish cuts wants to be as smooth and polished as possible no micro serrations

a Food prep knife is much better with a toothy micro serrated edge

slicey paper test means the knife is good for slicing paper


rubbing your honed polished edge o na car window maked teh edge a bit toothy knoocking off some of the work you put in honing and polishing

a Shrade old timer does a similer job think is about 300 gt ish it quickly puts a sharp but fine serrated edge on a knife for cutting meat this can be repeated as you need


i would try Autosol on the strop and have it backed onto a board if its not already
if you get really Geeky a jewlers loup gives you a close up of the edge ; )

ATB

Duncan

 

[robevs73]

Sounds like you need to do more work on finner grits and strops with paste not brasso.

 

[Elines]

Shaving sharp


i can shave hair if i sharpen on my grinder with 80gt and a quick buff to take the burrs off


a wood carving edge is for finish cuts wants to be as smooth and polished as possible no micro serrations

................................................................
ATB

Duncan

Could you clarify please?

What we actually need (or I do anyway) is to get my knives at the best "wood cutting/carving sharp".

I test if I have achieved this by:

• shaving hair, and sometimes by
• cutting newspaper or
• cutting typing paper

Which test is most useful for assessing if I have achieved a high level of "wood cutting/carving sharp".

Or is it simply a case of doing lots of strops if you want to have a good edge for wood cutting (and then accepting that it might not be as good for (say) preparing game?)



NB each time I think I am beginning to understand the principles of knife sharpening another issue raises its head!

 

[FGYT]

Could you clarify please?


I test if I have achieved this by:

• shaving hair, and sometimes by
• cutting newspaper or
• cutting typing paper

Which test is most useful for assessing if I have achieved a high level of "wood cutting/carving sharp".

best test for assessing an edge for wood carving is to try it on some wood

shaving hair tests a razor

Cutting paper tests a shredder

it maybe you need to step back and do some more work on the course grades then move up again if its not sharp stropping wont make it so
the loup helps see this

Oh I am assuming using a zero scandi grins at 25 deg ish

not a full flat wit ha 40 deg secondary etc

ATB

Duncan

PS robin wood is the best person to ask about carving edges

http://greenwood-carving.blogspot.com/search/label/knives

bushcraftes usually have to compromise a little as knives do other things

 

[TomBartlett]

Phew, glad to hear I'm not the only one having trouble

 

[ged]

... each time I think I am beginning to understand the principles of knife sharpening another issue raises its head!

Hehe, 'tis a complex business. I think the main issue here is the difference between a polished edge and a micro-serrated one. A micro-serrated edge can be sharp but a bit rough, and it tends to bite into things like a saw bites into things, by pressure on the points. If you want to carve wood that sort of edge isn't very good because you want the blade to slide smoothly and cleanly through the wood and leave a smooth surface. A micro-serrated edge like you get straight from grinding would leave a rough surface, a mirror-polished edge like you get from stropping with grinding paste is better.

I don't do any carving to speak of. Most of my blades have fairly rough edges such as you might see on a new Leatherman, I prefer them that way.

 

[Elines]

Ok thanks

I'm reminded of a bloke who had had a stroke and came to our Italian classes - the medics had suggested that the brain power needed to learn a new skill (Italian) would be good in staving off mental deterioration/improving his mental powers so ........... ........ I may never understand all the ins and outs of knife sharpening but at least I have the beneifit of at least thinking that I am staving off senility - but then again ........

 

[sasquatch]

It's all good fun, some of us are just a bit more anal than others when it comes to sharpening. Whatever works for the job at hand, in bushcraft I think many of us want to achieve a knife that's sharper than we need it for most tasks. It's a zen like state I get into doing knives and razors in the kitchen on waterstones and strops, I'll be having a session tonight.

 

[mrcharly]

Why would you need to sterilize a strop?

If you work as a chef in a commercial kitchen, you need to be able to boil wash or bleach everything.