Thanks all, interesting to learn all the issues. Good point Janne, that was on the news recently.
Aircraft hold-all luggage
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I think the rule is, don't carry anything that you would not like everyone to carry, ask yourself would you feel safe if everyone on board had a knife in their pocket, or tubes of chemicals in their bags, etc, etc, We cannot complain if things are confiscated by security, if they think they are not suitable to be carried on board, as far as I am concerned that is ok by me, we don't like the rules but they are there to keep us safe, and the more a***holes there are in security, the safer I feel.
You have a strange criteria for feeling safe, Fadcode. I prefer and feel safer being dealt with by courteous professionals than by folk on power trips, people too rushed to have time for manners, or fools who don't know what they are doing, but insist they are right anyway, then make up absurd justifications for acting like idiots. I have met all three of those examples. I want to respect the folk doing the job. I know it is high pressure and cannot be remotely fun, but some folk manage it with good humour and common sense, and some do not. I guess I take people acting all authoritarian as a sign that they are not really in control of things, and that doesn't make me feel safer.
I donot understand the changes in what is allowed and what is not, or why different jurisdictions have different rules.
Boots/trainers : some countries ask for them to go through the x-ray scanner, some not. Why?
Different rules create aggro, confusion and delays/ slows down the flow through security.
Boots/trainers : some countries ask for them to go through the x-ray scanner, some not. Why?
Different rules create aggro, confusion and delays/ slows down the flow through security.
The best ever behaviour I saw was a couple of years ago, as Security in Terminal 5 in Heathrow.
A guy tried to take through a bottle of vintage Veuve (I revognised the label) but was of course not allowed.
Instead of handling it in, he calmly stood to the side, opened it and started drinking it.
A guy tried to take through a bottle of vintage Veuve (I revognised the label) but was of course not allowed.
Instead of handling it in, he calmly stood to the side, opened it and started drinking it.
Largely we have only complained about the bad security officers.
Here is a hero: last autumn we went to Toronto to visit our son. He had chipped (badly) one of his Japanese kitchen knives. I have the means to take out large chips and dings, so I took it, placed it in my carry on shoulderbag, and went back to our hotel.
Forgot to place it in the checked luggage, of corse. At the security they discovered it. 8 inch ultra sharp Kiritsuke. Cool.
But one of the officers suggested she could take it and send it to my son. She did not want any money for the postsge.
We wrote down the adress and telephone. She delivered it later that day, told our son it was on her way home.
I wish I had her name, so I could write to her employer and tell them about the super service she gave us.
Here is a hero: last autumn we went to Toronto to visit our son. He had chipped (badly) one of his Japanese kitchen knives. I have the means to take out large chips and dings, so I took it, placed it in my carry on shoulderbag, and went back to our hotel.
Forgot to place it in the checked luggage, of corse. At the security they discovered it. 8 inch ultra sharp Kiritsuke. Cool.
But one of the officers suggested she could take it and send it to my son. She did not want any money for the postsge.
We wrote down the adress and telephone. She delivered it later that day, told our son it was on her way home.
I wish I had her name, so I could write to her employer and tell them about the super service she gave us.
Not sure what's strange about feeling safe or indeed having a criteria for it,, think back to 9-11 those hijackers walked onto a plane with guns and knives, if they had gone through security and been met by an a***hole being a bit of an idiot, maybe things might have turned out differently, and as Janne has said the biggest problem is the different rules by different airlines and countries, but that is the responsibility of the passengers to know what they are allowed to carry, I've been in many a queue because of the attitude of passengers who have refused to give up bottles of water and things, that they are warned by notices throughout the airport that they are not allowed to take through the security. And no doubt after they eventually managed to get through have called the security person all the names under the sun, for doing his job properly.
I flew from Birmingham airport a few weeks ago and the security check was very thorough. Had to remove my jacket, shoes (after the guy looked at them first) empty my pockets, belt off, basically anything with metal in it into the tray. My carry on bag was tagged going through the xray because they thought my 'big' Sat Nav was a tablet, the staff were pleasant and efficient even though they were very busy.
Actually they were armed with nothing more than box cutters (what y'all call a "stanley knife")
Flying is the safest mode of transport, not because of the Safety controls and regulations, but because you and me are not behind the wheel.
Where did you hear that the hijackers had guns?
At the time knives of under 4" were permissible, but guns were not. I have not read anything saying they had managed to get a gun on board.
It is a slippery slope to support law enforcement over stepping the laws when they feel like it, just because they don't like the look of you, all in the name of keeping everyone safer.
Until this last year my poor experiences with security staff were nearly all at a pre-check-in stage, not at the carry-on stage. I tend to agree about people trying it on with what they carry on, but I have now had experience of being on the receiving end of x-ray staff ire, and in that case all would have been resolved quicker had I been allowed to speak a full sentence without being cut off and shouted down. I am not an argumentative person and don't like confrontations, and that experience left a very bad taste.
As an example, you are on a trip, you lose your prize Leatherman tool, you are unhappy to have lost it. That is, until it is found lodged in a dark recess of your bag by x-ray staff. (exact thing happened to a friend of mine) Two ways things can go. Security staff can be unpleasant and give you the choice of: A. they confiscate your prize tool but you board your flight, or B. they confiscate your tool and escorted off the airport....if you try to suggest any other course you are cut off and they raise the volume. On the other hand, they could suggest option C, that you go back to the concourse and find an envelope to mail the knife to yourself. The result as far as the airline security is the same, but option C is the quickest, leaves everyone feeling calm, and the passenger relieved. I liked when my pal was offered option C, and in his place I would have like it even if I could not take it. Here's to Norwegian security!
At the time knives of under 4" were permissible, but guns were not. I have not read anything saying they had managed to get a gun on board.
It is a slippery slope to support law enforcement over stepping the laws when they feel like it, just because they don't like the look of you, all in the name of keeping everyone safer.
Until this last year my poor experiences with security staff were nearly all at a pre-check-in stage, not at the carry-on stage. I tend to agree about people trying it on with what they carry on, but I have now had experience of being on the receiving end of x-ray staff ire, and in that case all would have been resolved quicker had I been allowed to speak a full sentence without being cut off and shouted down. I am not an argumentative person and don't like confrontations, and that experience left a very bad taste.
As an example, you are on a trip, you lose your prize Leatherman tool, you are unhappy to have lost it. That is, until it is found lodged in a dark recess of your bag by x-ray staff. (exact thing happened to a friend of mine) Two ways things can go. Security staff can be unpleasant and give you the choice of: A. they confiscate your prize tool but you board your flight, or B. they confiscate your tool and escorted off the airport....if you try to suggest any other course you are cut off and they raise the volume. On the other hand, they could suggest option C, that you go back to the concourse and find an envelope to mail the knife to yourself. The result as far as the airline security is the same, but option C is the quickest, leaves everyone feeling calm, and the passenger relieved. I liked when my pal was offered option C, and in his place I would have like it even if I could not take it. Here's to Norwegian security!
I competed a lot in the late 70's and 80's in various disciplines with a revolver and semi auto pistol.
all over Scandinavia ( Sweden, Denmark, Norway) and I usually took the plane.
In those days it was simple. Show the gun and ammo permits at the check in. The girl behind the desk told you: Excellent, please go through Security and when you board the aircraft give it to the head airhostess or pilot.
Showed permits, guns and ammo to security. Breezed through.
Sometimes the people behind you whispered something about the guns. Usually not.
Most Scandinavian pilots were ex Airforces, and on many a occation they wanted to see the gun out of interest.
they loved my custom made Cold Python most.
all over Scandinavia ( Sweden, Denmark, Norway) and I usually took the plane.
In those days it was simple. Show the gun and ammo permits at the check in. The girl behind the desk told you: Excellent, please go through Security and when you board the aircraft give it to the head airhostess or pilot.
Showed permits, guns and ammo to security. Breezed through.
Sometimes the people behind you whispered something about the guns. Usually not.
Most Scandinavian pilots were ex Airforces, and on many a occation they wanted to see the gun out of interest.
they loved my custom made Cold Python most.
Years ago I made two trips to the US to visit family, different airports, but both times I took my 12ft.lb air rifle with me.
Out of Heathrow, desk agent wanted to know what was in the long box. When told they had someone from security (in a suit and tie) come over, watch me open the box, quickly examine the rifle, pronounce that it was okay, and away I went. On my return, my rifle box was not on the conveyor, I had to ask someone, who walked me to where it was, then walked me to Customs, where they opened the box, looked it over, confirmed it was an air rifle and welcomed me back. All very efficient and civilised.
Trip two, out of Birmingham was different. At check-in I was sent to wait in a little room practically papered with notices about how I could not expect to get anything back if it was confiscated. Waited 45 minutes. Long enough I was getting worried about missing my flight. Eventually two young police officers showed up, a man and woman, fully armed with MP5s and Glocks. Wanted to see in the box (which also contained my fishing gear), then wanted to see my license. Funny, it was all the young man doing the talking.
"What license? Its only 12ft.lb, it doesn't need a license."
"That's what you say. What documentation do you have to prove that it doesn't need a license?"
"errrrr...a license to prove it doesn't need a license???!!??
There was more discussion, but the upshot was that young "hot fuzz" took down the serial number and my details, told me to get details of the manufacturer's pre-trip tune that had been done, that he would be watching for my return...and not to try this again! I was probably lucky!!
When I did return my box appeared on the over-size conveyor, right next to the double rifle case of some dude with a huge camo hold-all. We looked at each other, looked around, couldn't see anyone official, picked up our cases, and walked out through the "nothing to declare" door, straight to the land-side concourse. It only struck me afterwards that I missed a golden chance to bring back an AR15!
Heathrow did a far better job of security, far more politely and professionally, than Birmingham did.
I have a friend who is an airline pilot and he had a story of one of his colleagues being prevented from boarding a flight, as pilot, with a nail file in his carry-on (shortly after 9-11). His incredulous response was "what do you think I am going to do with that...I am already in control of the plane?!?"
Out of Heathrow, desk agent wanted to know what was in the long box. When told they had someone from security (in a suit and tie) come over, watch me open the box, quickly examine the rifle, pronounce that it was okay, and away I went. On my return, my rifle box was not on the conveyor, I had to ask someone, who walked me to where it was, then walked me to Customs, where they opened the box, looked it over, confirmed it was an air rifle and welcomed me back. All very efficient and civilised.
Trip two, out of Birmingham was different. At check-in I was sent to wait in a little room practically papered with notices about how I could not expect to get anything back if it was confiscated. Waited 45 minutes. Long enough I was getting worried about missing my flight. Eventually two young police officers showed up, a man and woman, fully armed with MP5s and Glocks. Wanted to see in the box (which also contained my fishing gear), then wanted to see my license. Funny, it was all the young man doing the talking.
"What license? Its only 12ft.lb, it doesn't need a license."
"That's what you say. What documentation do you have to prove that it doesn't need a license?"
"errrrr...a license to prove it doesn't need a license???!!??
There was more discussion, but the upshot was that young "hot fuzz" took down the serial number and my details, told me to get details of the manufacturer's pre-trip tune that had been done, that he would be watching for my return...and not to try this again! I was probably lucky!!
When I did return my box appeared on the over-size conveyor, right next to the double rifle case of some dude with a huge camo hold-all. We looked at each other, looked around, couldn't see anyone official, picked up our cases, and walked out through the "nothing to declare" door, straight to the land-side concourse. It only struck me afterwards that I missed a golden chance to bring back an AR15!
Heathrow did a far better job of security, far more politely and professionally, than Birmingham did.
I have a friend who is an airline pilot and he had a story of one of his colleagues being prevented from boarding a flight, as pilot, with a nail file in his carry-on (shortly after 9-11). His incredulous response was "what do you think I am going to do with that...I am already in control of the plane?!?"
I don't know your situation over there, but here the TSA staff manning the x-rays and passenger search stations aren't police officers.
Sounds cool. Over here passengers have never been allowed to carry guns in carry-on. Not in my lifetime anyway (I'm 61 years old now and I've been flying since I was about 12 in 1968) Flying with guns then wasn't much different than it is now:
1) Unloaded
2) Locked in a hard sided case
3) Alert the airline what it is so an agent can check to be sure it's in compliance with the first two requirements.
Once when I took a rifle back to Austin after visiting my family on leave I was unable to find the rifle case in the baggage claim area. I went to see an airport representative to see how to file a claim and he said, "That won't be necessary. We have it here." It was an "uncontrolled" baggage claim area (meaning there was no attendant in the area to make sure everybody had their own bags) so the airline staff took the gun case to the agent so he could check the tag against my claim check.
