mountain marathon

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RAPPLEBY2000

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 2, 2003
3,195
14
51
England
:shock:

as part of my course we have to take part in a 2 day mountain marathon! :shock:

i am hoping to put a good effort in! :shock:

i want to do the 20 mile course :shock:

it involves an overnight wild camp (at a desegnated spot). :shock:

it's in 3 weeks time near kendal(howgills).
this is the "must carry" list:

2 man tent (per 2 man team)
food
cooking equipment

waterproofs
thermal top
footwear (boots not trainers)
socks
head torch
whistle
compass
map
sleeping bag
emergency rations
first aid kit
pen and or pencil
survival bag
roll mat

they reckon it might be cold :shock:..hmm do you think so?

:banghead:
sarcasm is lost in text! :-(

has anyone any tips on kit?

on what to expect?

i have to carry the list shown but is it wise to cut corners or can i?

when i have pushed myself before i tend to walk uphill and jog down and run on the flat is this a good plan?

which is better Trangia or MSR?

my plce bergen without pockets(80L) on or my PLCE patrol pack(40l)

is it a good idea to wear a load carrying vest? i have an idea it would help balance me out(in total it'll hold about the same ammount as a PLCE waterbottle pouch).
 

sargey

Mod
Mod
Member of Bushcraft UK Academy
Sep 11, 2003
2,695
8
cheltenham, glos
i've done a few challenge walks, but never an overnighter. 20 miles? is that just one morning's stage, before tea-break? :-D

if you want to push hard, i'd suggest going with the lightest minimalist kit you can get away with. for a single night (planned) try to get away with the smaller ruck. but don't betempted to strap big lumps on the outside and unbalance it all.

rather than trangia or msr i'd take a hexy burner with a tinfoil windshield.

can you take your flysheet and leave the inner behind? you already have a survival bag for a ground sheet. take a summer weight sleeping bag and sleep in your clothes, if it gets really cold get in the survival bag.

running jogging walking is good, but as the old saying goes, "in order to finish first, first you must finish" so bear in mind that it is two days, don't rush the nav, "better to walk in the right direction than to run the wrong way" pace yourself and don't get any stupid injuries from hyper extending knees on the up hill bits.

got any links to this event? is it solo or in pairs like the KIMM? good luck and don't forget a full report when you get back. :-D

cheers, and.
 

ditchfield

Nomad
Nov 1, 2003
305
0
36
Somerset
I too recomend that you go ultralight. That list is a bit restrictive though. You have to carry a 2 man tent? I recomend a boom called 'The Book of the Bivi'. It is about bivi bags, but has lots of useful advice for going ulralight. The writer has taken part in mountain marathons. He discribes, using as a pot, a leaky foil container from an indian takeaway, lined with a piece of space blanket to stop everything leaking out :-D.
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
37
50
South Wales Valleys
Yep... ultra-light is the way to go. Most of your kit is already lightweight, the things that are going to be heavy/bulky are, Tent, food/cooker (if using trangia or msr), and sleeping bag.

I agree with sargey to take only the tent outer if you can.... this wll realy cut down the weight without the ground sheet. If you have heavy tent pegs, change them for plastic twizzle pegs.
http://www.wildlifewatchingsupplies.co.uk/twizzle_pegs.htm

For cooking I would go for a Hexi stove, or the smaller version the esbit
http://www.britnett.net/kws/listings/166.html
or may fave.... the greenheat
http://www.britnett.net/kws/listings/166.html

I'd suggest just to use a cheap stainless steel mug from a pound shop to cook in.... you can make a lid out of tin foil

For a sleeping bag, as you are only out for 1 night, you may want to try a good quality emergency sleeping bag... very light and comes packed down small.
http://www.blizzardpack.com/outdoor_sport/prod_sleeping_bag.htm

And for water on the move, you can't get any better than the Pre Mac Pocket Travel Well..... Its tiny and its good for 50 litres.
http://www.travelwithcare.com/browse.asp?catID=928

Hopefuly your kit will fit in the 40 litre patrol sack as this will make your life much easier.

:)
Ed
 
J

JeremyH

Guest
Having done several MM's in this country and abroad - the ultra light method is best.
However- I always use a mini-trangia, Karrimor 35lt Rucsac, sleeping bag 2/3 season-
well worth it after a days running/hard hiking, a half karrimat, and the other basics as listed. A change of thermal is good to sleep. A buffalo mtn shirt is also good.
Worth looking at the KIMM site (Karrimor International Mountain Marathon)

Good luck
JeremyH :)
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
2 man tent (per 2 man team)
food
cooking equipment

waterproofs
thermal top
footwear (boots not trainers)
socks
head torch
whistle
compass
map
sleeping bag
emergency rations
first aid kit
pen and or pencil
survival bag
roll mat


Ahh light weight kit :-D

ok for the two man tent i would opt for a golite HEX 3 SHELTER
SH6106.jpg
this weights 800g and is desinged for three people so plenty of room, forget the pole (you can always use a branch etc) and use twizle pegs

for food carry lifeboat 'mainstay rations' these require no cooking and are very high in calories
Mainstay_Single_lg.gif


cooker ok a flat emergency folding cooker (the one on the right in the picture)
CN226.jpg


this weight almost nothing carry a couple of hexiebloxs as well (this fulfills the stove requirement and you won't need to cook because your food rations dont need it :wink: ) tell them your ration cook in the bag so you dont need a pot

petzel tikka head torch (everyone know what these look like)

Blizzard bag as both your sleeping bag and survival bag (its warm enough to use as a sleeping bag) see here http://www.blizzardpack.com/ and weight 330g

for the roll mat use a Z-lite see : http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=43&cID=1

replace the backsystem in your rucksack with a cut down z-rest

thats most of the main items, the first aid requirment is arguable (how much first aid stuff is a kit??, bung in a few plasters)

carry all this kit in the pockets of your jacket and wear a camelback with carbohydrate powder in the water (at least a 2 liter camelback prefurably 3) drink lots it really effects your proformance
 

sargey

Mod
Mod
Member of Bushcraft UK Academy
Sep 11, 2003
2,695
8
cheltenham, glos
my own mini stove is a coke can burner, hexy blocks are a lighter fuel than meths. hexy blocks are the lightest fuel full stop, but also the most expensive. so hexy blocks/esbits are definately better for shorter trips. for really long duration, like a couple of months "through hiking" long distance american trails, the extra expense adds up to a considerable sum.

cheers, and.
 
D

Dutchman

Guest
light footware :roll: :!:

but you guys allready know to much about the outdoors,
better for me to keep silent and do some training myself :-?

again excellent thread!

awra best,
frank
 

RAPPLEBY2000

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 2, 2003
3,195
14
51
England
:-D
wow thanks guy's thats got me thinking!

any more tips?

like:

how to stop laces coming undone, i always tie double but they still work loose, should i try tape?

what sort of trousers?
will lightweight walking trousers do?

those with expirience, does everyone go the same way, on a signed path or do you find your own way to the check points?


i'm really looking forward to it now!
 

Great Pebble

Settler
Jan 10, 2004
775
2
54
Belfast, Northern Ireland
These are handy wee pieces if you can find some :-

hex1.jpg


The "burner" is a throwaway item, scored so you can fold it to make a pot rest, comes with 6 hexi tablets, box of matches, puritabs and a "pan grip".
Made in France by a firm called Transimex.
Very small and light when in the box, I managed to pick up a box load last year and have used them on overnight trips when not wanting to take a proper cookset. Two of them fit into a mess tin along with a couple of ratpack pouch meals, a packet of "biscuits, brown" and enough sundries to take care of all your "brew" needs.

Nick in Belfast
 

Roving Rich

Full Member
Oct 13, 2003
1,460
4
Nr Reading
20 miles ain't far, you can walk this in a day. So don't stress on that point.
I'd take the 40 litre sack and nothing bigger. You'd be surprised what you can cram in, and it avoids overloading just cos you have room.
The tent will get split between the two of you spreading the load. If you have to have poles on the outside of a sack, tie them on with additional cord not just compression straps.(I have heard too many tales of lost poles en route).
Trangias are great, but take forever! if this is a race of sorts, an hours stop to brew a cuupa is hopeless. So stuff the esbit and trangia and go with the MSR.
Tikka plus headtorch, light fits any pocket.
A lightweight sleeping bag and that Blizzard bag (as the survival bag) if you get cold. The blizzard bag is great, packs up small when new (vacuum packed) so if you can get away with it instead sleeping and bivvy bags it maybe the way to go.
My feet take a pounding a when i have a full load on my back, inspite of good lite boots, so Insoles are my top tip. :wink:
As part of your course this sounds like its an exercise rather than a full on race, otherwise you wouldn't be camping over night on that distance.
I like my thermarest, allot to be said for a good nights sleep, and I don't like cold feet so full length for me. But i don't run marathons.
Have you got access to allot of gear? or do you have to provide your own.
Good luck, sounds like a fun challenge to me
Rich
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
how to stop laces coming undone, i always tie double but they still work loose, should i try tape?

Try lacelocks - it's a triathlon thing! Instead of tying laces, use one of those 'gripper toggles' (don't know the name) like you get on drawstrings at the top of bergans/rucksacks, where you pull the cords/laces through the middle and it uses a spring-loaded clip to hold them tight. You can pay about 8 quid for the ones from the sports shops or about 50p each from outdoor shops. Tightening and loosening is easy and you don't have to worry about knots.

If you want to be at your best and at least get a bit of sleep, the tip someone mentioned about using half a thermal mat. You can sit on it, lie your upper torso on it and it will make a massive difference.

Unless you've done a lot of training carrying a backpack, take it easy over rough terrain as it's easy to twist an ankle. In terms of footwear, either adventure racing shoes, trail shoes or fell-running/cross-country shoes (Adidas Davros, Walsh PBs, that type of thing).

Navigation is absolutely critical - plan your route as best you can and, unless you are a fellrunner, contour round the hills rather than run up the steepest slopes. It may seem like it will save time initially but it will kill you if you aren't fit enough.

Have fun! Mountain Marathons are excellent and also a very good introduction to adventure racing.
 

Flarkey

New Member
Aug 16, 2004
1
0
Belshaft, Norn Iron
I'm doing the Mourne Mountain Marathon in September, and this thread has been a great help in deciding what kit I'll need.

I found this on the Karrimor Intenational Mountain Marathon Site:

Kimm Official Kit List
This is the official kit list.


All competitors must sign this kit list
KIMM kit check declaration and safety rules 2003.
“THE CLOTHING LISTED BELOW UNDER RULE 18 IS OPEN TO VARIATION BUT MUST PROVIDE WARMTH, ESPECIALLY WHEN WET
· WICKING ( i.e. moisture transporting) NON COTTON BASE LAYERS WITH THE ADDITION OF A SWEATER OR FLEECE TOP WILL BE IDEAL
· The trend of wearing a cotton Tee shirt over the base layer may help your ‘street cred’ but is NOT allowed. To ensure that your garments are warm when wet all your warm layers must be NON cotton. Wool is acceptable, of course, sheep keep on surviving but its very heavy and therefore its your choice. Polyester gives the best warmth weight ratio and lowest water absorption.
· JEANS, T SHIRTS OR ‘O’ SUITS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE
· Neither are polyester/cotton trekking type pants which are commonly worn on the assumption they are not jeans and therefore allowable.
· ALL ITEMS EXCEPT TENT AND STOVE MUST BE CARRIED BY EACH TEAM MEMBER OF THE TEAM
· MOUNTAIN SAFETY. ALL COMPETITORS ARE PRESUMED TO BE CONVERSANT WITH THE CONDITION KNOWN AS HYPOTHERMIA OR EXPOSURE, AND IT’S TREATMENT. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THIS KNOWLEDGE THEN YOU SHOULD CONSIDER SERIOUSLY WHETHER YOU ARE COMPETENT TO START THIS RACE.

· It is important to realise that ‘exposure’ can occur even in sunshine, which means it will be unexpected and not easily spotted. You should keep an eye on your partner particularly when your blood sugar levels are getting low. If exposure strikes at that point it’s critically dangerous.
· See How to avoid HYPOTHERMIA www.kimm.com/new3/performance

· IN THE EVENT OF ACCIDENT OR INJURY PITCH YOUR TENT, THE NORMAL CODE OF MOUNTAIN SAFETY APPLIES:
· Pitch the tent with the injured person inside in both sleeping bags, ensure he/she is warm use all available aids to insulate the person, take careful note of the exact location of the tent, and then go for help.”
· It is assumed by the organisers that anyone NOT reaching the overnight camp will be camped in safety elsewhere.
· Remember; this is a team event and the primary safety support is you or your partner.
· There is a significant amount of ‘how to’ content on the KIMM web site under nutrition, keeping warm and dry, layering for performance,7 key elements for success.



1. Warm Trousers or Leggings
2. Shirt or Thermal Top
3. Sweater or Fleece Top
4. Waterproof Over Trousers ( means taped seams)
5. Waterproof Jacket (means taped seams)
6. Socks
7. gloves
8. hat
9. Head Torch
10. Whistle
11. Food For 36 Hours
12. Additional Emergency Rations
13. Compass (GPS Not Allowed)
14. Survival Bag/Space Blanket
15. Footwear With Adequate Grip For Fell Conditions
16. Map, As Supplied
17. Sleeping Bag, must be textile & not alu foil.
18. Rucksack
19. First-Aid, a minimum of a crepe bandage and small wound dressings.
20. Pen Or Pencil
21. Tent With Sewn-In Groundsheet
22. Cooking Stove.

Name
Signature
Date
Declaration

I/we understand that the severity of this event and have the necessary experience to safely undertake it. I/we therefore do not hold KIMM (or any of its agents) responsible for any damage or illness sustained to me or my property or any consequential loss, ensuring or after the event. I/We agreed to abide by the rules and conditions laid down for the event. We except that the organisers reserve the right to refuse entry for persons considered to have insufficient experience, or disqualify those who fail to follow the conditions. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. I/We agree that my name, age, event successes and town (only) location and photo (taken at the event) may be published on the KIMM web site, I/We confirm that our entry form details are correct. I/We declare that our clothing and equipment is in accordance with the rules as itemised in the entry form and comprises all the items as listed above.

CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT CHECKS
It is no longer felt necessary for all competitors to bring their packs to the registration. However it is still considered vital for kit checks to take place, so and increased number of random kit checks will take place at the overnight camp and of course at the finish. Random checks will include everyone and not merely the high-ranking finishers. Please note changes to clothing definitions; these will be looked for in random checks.

SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE WEATHER AND HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.
It is generally considered that the KIMM gets more than its fair share of bad weather. However looking back at the temperatures over the last five years it is quite clear that global warming seems to be having an impact and temperatures during the competition weekend have often been 15 C plus (excluding wind chill factor). Competitors are not only going lighter but because of these higher temperatures but ‘running wet’. The number of hypothermia cases does seem to be increasing. Sometime, some year, we will have cold conditions. Remember there have been at least 4 occasions when it has snowed at the overnight camp! For this reason we have further modified/reinforced the kit list declaration to ensure that you are indeed more fully aware of the clothing and kit requirements.

Cheers

Flarkey
 

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