Okay, following up my post last week about wanting to take a traditional or 'minimalist' approach to a long trek I have planned, I need to get myself sorted with what I think is the most important part of clothing; the outerwear. I've yet to order a Bison bush shirt and see for myself so I'm just using other people's interpretations via reviews. I'm thinking of using a merino wool base layer, with a bison bush shirt on top, but what to do about the outer? I'm staying away from technical garments because I've splashed out a lot of cash in the past for Goretex and I loathed everything about it. I'm thinking about either wearing a Swanndri Bush Shirt as my outer layer, or using a synthetic poncho over the Bison shirt, but I know I'd find the poncho terribly clammy and sweaty, and not to mention even with a belt it will be flapping like a flag in the wind when I'm venturing onto higher land. At the same time, at points in the trip I could be without drying clothes for many days, so I'm finding it hard to find the right solution. Any suggestions?
Outer layer
- Thread starter Beardy Adam
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Better than sweating to death and sounding like an old plastic bag. I'm just trying to explore the possibilities as best as I can by asking others to share their experience and knowledge.
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I'd opt against a swandri outer layer, as it lacks windproofing and the rain does get through. Goretex hasn't failed me, especially if you wear the right base/mid-layers. No experience with ventile. Tweed is another option for you.
Ventile and Paramo. Ventile worn over Paramo when near fire - Paramo keeps pumping moisture out even when under another layer.
I've never worn Tweed before but I've heard good things about it, it is wool after all. The only problem is finding Tweed in anything that resembles a walking jacket, plenty of Tweed shooting jackets but none with a longer cut, a high collar and a hood. What's the deal with the single layer ventile poncho that Hilltrek sell, then?
Do you think it would provide enough rain protection worn over other wool layers? I'm talking walking in sustained downpours.
What making something along the lines of a waxed cotton poncho? barbour styl material but as a poncho you'd have a good circulation of air, no probs with rain then.
Just be careful if you're planning to hike any distance, the Bison shirt is a cracker but it packs down to the size of a small semi.
Wool doesn't really dry out very quickly so you might want to think about an alternative outer layer, Ventile is an option but it does wet out and become heavy. I'd look at something like eVent or maybe Paramo if you don't fancy Goretex. If it was me though I'd go for something like Goretex Pro Shell or a 3 layer eVent.
Wool doesn't really dry out very quickly so you might want to think about an alternative outer layer, Ventile is an option but it does wet out and become heavy. I'd look at something like eVent or maybe Paramo if you don't fancy Goretex. If it was me though I'd go for something like Goretex Pro Shell or a 3 layer eVent.
Forget it! Been there, spent £200, total waste of money, in my opinion. I wouldn't even consider any form of waterproof synthetic laying after the Mountain Equipment Pro-Shell coat I had. The long, clammy, damp climbs up Munros is something my wallet will never forget.
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Have you tried any eVent yet ? Some folk think it's breathability is strides ahead of Goretex, I find them similar myself but I don't run particularly hot anyway. Montane have a few nice offerings available and not too pricey either.
I'm a recent convert to Paramo and I really rate it. Its a waterproof that you really can wear all day in comfort and the pump layer really works. I much prefer it to shells.
There are downsides to Paramo stuff but weighing it all up it easliy comes out the winnner for me for most of what I do.
There are downsides to Paramo stuff but weighing it all up it easliy comes out the winnner for me for most of what I do.
Then your choices seem to be some form of Water / Wind resistant cotton: Ventile , Gabardine, Grenfell etc... In either a single layer or double layer or some form of Waxed Cotton, Barbour et al..
Caveat emptor...
I personally wouldn't get wearing a big Swandri as an outer wet weather garment... They suck up a lot of water.. Fine if you're tooling around on a quad twitching up stock for milking.. Not so flash if your walking up hill in open country with no place to dry it at the end of the day.
In that you would retain warmth if the wool became damp, then yes.
let me say that I've been in mid winter wearing a buffalo shirt on top of our hills in a gale and been sweltered.
put a ventile on and remained toasty whilst making a brew behind the cairn.
I've recently got a single layer ventile windshirt - absolutely love it. Has kept me completely dry, but been on any multiday trips with it. It does wet out, then it's heavy and a bit damp on the inside. If the weather is to be relatively fair with only the odd shower then it would be perfect
Hilltrek now do ventile with a nikwax analogy layer - looks interesting.
Hilltrek now do ventile with a nikwax analogy layer - looks interesting.
The Ventile/analogy stuff is great - the best of both worlds!
I am a big fan of Ventile as I find it the most wearable of water resistant clothing going - and the longest living under rough conditions - and double Ventile works well in even heavy rain ...but is a bit stiff and heavy when fully soaked on the outer skin.
Single Ventile is all I need for most weather (even in West Wales) but if the weather looks realy awful I usually have a poncho in my kit as well
Ventile over wool layers is very effective - even realy bad weather is do-able in relative comfort and for dry cold/snow Ventile is unbeatable IMHO 
Also worth noting (for those who cannot afford Gore/Ventile/oiled wool ) for many a year I was a poor Instructor in outdoor centres - we instructors survived very well using PU proofed nylon cags (or if feeling flush - neoprene proofed nylon!)
Noisy, sweaty but proof against anything!
True - we go soaked in condensation but - there was no wind chill and no icy rain penetration!
The trick was to put off wearing the stuff until we were already wet then use our oilies to stay warm!
Clothing dries eventually
Even if you get soaked on a multi day hike you should have a set of dry in your pack for night wear - once you are in your shelter and not going to get wet again - and you put your wet kit on again in the morning (not nice for the first few moments) when your activity will keep you warm and even start drying you out again.
These days we are obsessed with staying bone dry with breathable windproof gear - traditionally outdoorsmen put up with a little damp and managed their lives to accept a bit of wet and yet stay healthy.
Wool layers are much more comfortable than cotton/synthetics when damp
I would go with wool layers topped by Ventile if I was to go "trad" for a long hike....
I am a big fan of Ventile as I find it the most wearable of water resistant clothing going - and the longest living under rough conditions - and double Ventile works well in even heavy rain ...but is a bit stiff and heavy when fully soaked on the outer skin.
Single Ventile is all I need for most weather (even in West Wales) but if the weather looks realy awful I usually have a poncho in my kit as well
Ventile over wool layers is very effective - even realy bad weather is do-able in relative comfort
and for dry cold/snow Ventile is unbeatable IMHO Also worth noting (for those who cannot afford Gore/Ventile/oiled wool ) for many a year I was a poor Instructor in outdoor centres - we instructors survived very well using PU proofed nylon cags (or if feeling flush - neoprene proofed nylon!)
Noisy, sweaty but proof against anything!
True - we go soaked in condensation but - there was no wind chill and no icy rain penetration!
The trick was to put off wearing the stuff until we were already wet then use our oilies to stay warm!
Clothing dries eventually
Even if you get soaked on a multi day hike you should have a set of dry in your pack for night wear - once you are in your shelter and not going to get wet again - and you put your wet kit on again in the morning (not nice for the first few moments) when your activity will keep you warm and even start drying you out again.
These days we are obsessed with staying bone dry with breathable windproof gear - traditionally outdoorsmen put up with a little damp and managed their lives to accept a bit of wet and yet stay healthy.
Wool layers are much more comfortable than cotton/synthetics when damp
I would go with wool layers topped by Ventile if I was to go "trad" for a long hike....
The sad thing is that every outer shell is something of a compromise. If you're wearing your Bison shirt underneath, Ventile on top will keep you dry unless the rain is truly tropical. It is quiet and gets better and better with use but, as has been mentioned, it stiffens up when wet and does take a while to dry. I reckon single is better/more versatile than double though it's quite nice to have doubled bits over the shoulders, especially if wearing a pack.
If you want to look at synthethics, Paramo is extremely good but you might boil with the wool top on underneath - a lightweight version might be better. eVent is good too - certainly better than Goretex. I suppose the advantage of the synthetic outer shells is that there are many more manufacturers and therefore styles, sizing and even colours to choose from. However, they don't wear particularly well (compared with Ventile, for instance) and their performance drops off pretty quickly once the DWR coating wears off and you've sweated copiously into the fabric!
If you want to look at synthethics, Paramo is extremely good but you might boil with the wool top on underneath - a lightweight version might be better. eVent is good too - certainly better than Goretex. I suppose the advantage of the synthetic outer shells is that there are many more manufacturers and therefore styles, sizing and even colours to choose from. However, they don't wear particularly well (compared with Ventile, for instance) and their performance drops off pretty quickly once the DWR coating wears off and you've sweated copiously into the fabric!
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