really big old trees

[robin wood]

Big old trees have always been a passion of mine and we have more of them in the UK that most places in Europe. Last weekend I was down in Essex for the first time in a few years and took the chance to revisit Hatfield forest an ancient medieval hunting forest with over 800 old pollards of 8 species. This is my favourite, a huge oak hidden deep in the southern scrubs.

I worked there for 3 years in the early 90s and it was very interesting to revisit some of the trees we did work on. I once deadwooded this huge oak, it branches high up and feels a long way up.

More pics and discussion of the management of these ancient trees here.

Does anyone else have pics of big or ancient trees to share?

 

[JohnC]

Hello, I recalled there is a list/route of heritage trees in Edinburgh, some I've seen, especially in the cammo estate area
http://www.treewarden.org.uk/Edinburgh Heritage Trees.htm

Theres some big trees down in the Hirsel in Coldstream, they're of intrest to me as my Dad played there as a boy, and now my sons have visited the places with us..

 

[MSkiba]

Thats not a big tree, your just very small!

 

[Celt_Ginger]

During a Woodlore course I attanded a few years ago, we were taken to see an ancient Beech, thought to be almost 1000 years old. Parts of it were completely hollow, but it was still very much alive.

 

[robin wood]

Thats not a big tree, your just very small!

Yes in fact I think if you look closely I am about the hieght of a blade of grass.

During a Woodlore course I attanded a few years ago, we were taken to see an ancient Beech, thought to be almost 1000 years old. Parts of it were completely hollow, but it was still very much alive.

That looks a corker though I would doubt the age. beech grows to great size quickly and is short lived, even pollards much over 300 are unusual. That is backed by tree ring counting on many huge old beech downed in North Kent during the 87 storm.

 

[gregorach]

You think those trees are big, until you see real primeval, old growth forest... You should visit Tasmania some time. (Unfortunately, all my pics are the old-fashioned sort, and I don't have a scanner... Not that you can photograph them properly anyway.)

 

[robin wood]

I would love to see old growth forest in Tasmania or the North American redwoods. Not many folk realise though how special these old British trees are in a European context. Other than Greece there are very few ancient trees in Europe, you can go throughout Scandinavia, France, Germany and see fantastic areas of woodland cover but not see many trees over 150 years old.

 

[badgeringtim]

Sorry to pipe up about the boat again - but there are some large trees in scandinavia. the oak we are using is danish and though i have not counted the rings some trunks are around 2m in diameter.
Not the size of the beuties in your picks though Robin, it does prompt me to ask a question i have pondered about though. Wheer trees grow slower in colder climates the tree is presumably older for the same girth as a UK equivallent. I wonder if there is a ratio or factor for this.

There are also some nice large trees in Fulbourn nature reserve - just south of cambridge. i will try to find some pics.

 

[robin wood]

Diameter is obviously related to age since every tree has to coat its entire surface area with at least one cell each year or it dies. Cold is not often the limiting factor and microclimate plays a big part. I remember once felling two ash that had grown 100 yards apart, both around 10" diameter, one was 30 the other 120. Just like the carrots in your garden some find the nutrient and grow fast, some struggle and just hang in there without getting much bigger. Mitchell used to reckon on a rule of thumb of measure the girth at breast height and 1" = 1 year. This was a very approximate rule for trees with average growing conditions. Pollards or trees with small crowns or restricted roots grow more slowly.

 

[Celt_Ginger]

You are probably right Robin. The instructors may well have just been trying to impress us. We were asked to give it a hug though!

 

[Paul_B]

Robin - I am not sure you are totally correct about age and diameter. Whilst is is true almost all the time there are areas which due to their growing conditions have stunted trees of great age. There is one place I remember seeing as a kid in Devon or Cornwall I think. There on the coast there were woods made up of oak that grew along the ground before growing up to a very short height above the ground. These oaks survive a very harshy coastal environment with wind and even salt spray. As such they are pretty much all less than 6" diameter however it has been shown that some are into 3 figures in age. IIRC some that actually got washed out so sea (or about to be so were growth ringed) were something like 300 years old yet a lot less than 6". I just wish I could recall where. I know the ages because I remember seeing it on tv on the coast programme IIRC, possibly the very first series.

I just thought I ought to mention that although really big old trees are great to see there are some very old trees around that due to whatever reason (and I think there are more than the above reasons) that do not grow to a large girth but are of a good age.

My preference has alwaysbeen for a good old yew tree. A newer favourite is the old juniper trees. The oldest is only supposed to be 225 years old but they are slow growing and rare. In the Lakes there is an appeal for people to report any large juniper tree they find. By large they probably mean more than a couple of inches diameter or so. I wish I could let you know who to report any to as they want to record the spread of old junipers. IIRC they planted some on the Thrilmere side of the Hellvellyn range. They stuck them in cracks in crag faces and in many hard to reach places too that took climbers to get to.

Whilst nice, old oaks are great to see and should be protected we really must look after those most at risk as a whole British species. Juniper is one of the most widely distributed trees but in our country it is rare. It does not easily self propagate and as they are slow growing are probably eaten by sheep (over grazing partly to blame) or by deer before they get to a size where they will survive. Also I am sure you guys have some kind of use for the fruits of the juniper if you had one growing in your garden or neighbourhood. I often worry that obsession with the oldest or biggest tree that some have means these smaller species don't get fair attention. The Juniper and the Yew are heavily steeped in our history and past as are Hawthorns and other less regarded species than the majestic oak. I heard a story (wild tale from Wasdale) about a hawthorn that caught the funeral wraps of the murdered wife of a guy from Wasdale area on the old coffin route taking them off so the hand fell away. Can't remember the rest of it which is a bugger but I think it relates to the husband being the killer and loads of remorse sort of stuff. Anyway the Hawthorne IIRC is widely found in superstitious tales and is a tree of bad omen. Things like don't bring it in the house and the like or bad luck. The Juniper berries by the way are good luck if put in a new born boy's wraps or something like that. Wards away bad spirits, blah blah blah.

Anyway ramble over. Take a look at the Levens Yew or the Borrowdale Yew if you are ever in Cumbria. They made the Queen's golden jubille list of 50 Great British Trees!!

 

[robin wood]

Quite right Paul aboput size and age not always going together this is a bristlecone pine, one of these is the oldest (non clonal) living organism in the world at 4,844 years old. Harsh environment =slow growth just like your coastal oak.

I spent 3 years working at Toys Hill in Kent the last recorded site in Kent for Juniper, it had disappeared though. I have visited the Borrowdale yews several times but don't know the Levens. I visited Gilbert White's well recorded 26 foot girth yew at Selbourne before and after it was sadly uprooted in 1990. Remarkable trees are always worth diverting to visit.

 

[Paul_B]

The Levens Yew is in thee Levens Hall gardens I believe. Can't remember it as I was at primary school when I went round it and neighbouring Sizergh Castle. All I remeember is running around one of the best examples of an original topiary garden. 1700s or older I think but certainly one of the few that has the original layout and is indeed the original garden. Not sure where the Yew is in there. I do remember runnung around the topiary bushes and trees. You could go into the crown shape IIRC it was a wet day and it provided shelter. The whole garden is pretty good so I guess the Yew must be worth visiting if it makes the 50 top trees list.

Amazing to think anything can survive as long as the bristlecone pines. Amazing. I do wonder which British species is the longest living one, I mean the pine is longest living tree but in the UK? You hear of 1000 year old oaks but I do wonder if they are as old as that and what it is about one species that makes it capable of longevity. Old, established trees and even younger ones that are large in size do make a good habitat (deciduous I suppose). You hear that the oak has an amazing biodiversity. They are our rainforests in some ways.

 

[Ryan Woods]

although i have nothing of intellect to add here, just like to say thanks for sharing the great pics Robin!

 

[addo]

Great picures Robin, I'll have a dig around for some at work. There's a great big Oak in the paddock at Elvaston Castle thats worth a look at. It's full of decay fungi and one so called expert is trying to fell it. Several others are trying to save it. As far as im concerned theres no target so no problem, and it would be a great loss to the landscape. Great canopy still too.

 

[Nagual]

If I had the skills and a good camera I'd try and take pics of the Kilmun Arboretum, which has many Champion classed trees. Some wonderful and exotic trees there. Japanese Black Fir comes to mind, planted in 1933 and is about 8 inches in diameter roughly, and perhaps 4 - 5 meters tall. On the other side of the path is Caucasian Pine planted a year later and its easily 16" diameter and bloody tall.

 

[SOAR]

Good post Robin.

There are some good videos on youtube of some big trees being climbed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8UTFbhKFg

This one is in Australia of a big dead Eucy being dismantled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFyVJFIohkI

 

[robin wood]

Great picures Robin, I'll have a dig around for some at work. There's a great big Oak in the paddock at Elvaston Castle thats worth a look at. It's full of decay fungi and one so called expert is trying to fell it. Several others are trying to save it. As far as im concerned theres no target so no problem, and it would be a great loss to the landscape. Great canopy still too.

Sounds interesting is this the one? http://www.friendsofelvaston.co.uk/oak.htm

 

[twisted firestarter]

I am particularly drawn to big trees and have seen a few whoppers over the years.

Here are a couple of my favourites...



Gog and Magog near Glastonbury Tor, believed to be over 1,000 years old. Sorry nothing to show the scale but they are HUGE, I did consider hammocking between them but didn't like the thought of a falling branch!


This is a massive church yard yew tree in Wiltshire. A sign in the church states that the tree is 2,000 years old. If you look carefully you'll see my 6'3" mate standing inside it. I once had a brew stop in there while it tipped down and stayed bone dry.

 

[bushcraftbob]

That Yew is unbelievable! Just imagine if trees could talk the history lesson they could give you. I remember seeing some cracking yews in Cheddar in Somerset.