How I built my house for £4,000

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Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,841
1,548
51
Wiltshire
Those people who lived in hovels in the past would have been delighted to live in a brick house.

Or we should be like the rural japanese, clean, airy houses made from cheap local materials, easily maintained, and if neccisary, replaced.

But they are cold, and people are desparate to get out of them. (And, as a person I knew did, if you have the contacts, you can be `given` one `take it, if you dont live there, it will fall down`)

What you are describing, Nomad of soul, will happen whatever type of houses you will have, its these stupid liberal councils building places for chavs, the sort we dont want in a rural area, they muck things up, and commit crime, and lower house prices for those of us who have had the sense to buy one.

and dont get me onto the people who have more cars than they do parking spaces....

The councils do some stupid things, they pull down nice streets so they can squeeze in more houses (or flats)

But Im worried that those straw bale houses will attract the less desirable members of the new age brigade
 

buckley

Nomad
Nov 8, 2006
369
4
United Kingdom
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:



:confused:
Those people who lived in hovels in the past would have been delighted to live in a brick house.

Or we should be like the rural japanese, clean, airy houses made from cheap local materials, easily maintained, and if neccisary, replaced.

But they are cold, and people are desparate to get out of them. (And, as a person I knew did, if you have the contacts, you can be `given` one `take it, if you dont live there, it will fall down`)

What you are describing, Nomad of soul, will happen whatever type of houses you will have, its these stupid liberal councils building places for chavs, the sort we dont want in a rural area, they muck things up, and commit crime, and lower house prices for those of us who have had the sense to buy one.

and dont get me onto the people who have more cars than they do parking spaces....

The councils do some stupid things, they pull down nice streets so they can squeeze in more houses (or flats)

But Im worried that those straw bale houses will attract the less desirable members of the new age brigade
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
You sound a bit like margo on the good life tengu If U lived in a different place U might of been born into the "chav" class your self
Theres nothing wrong with brick houses, theyve used bricks in various forms for thousand's of years. My grandad used to say its not the sty that makes the pig. U can make a nice new clean utopian estate eg tower block's in the 60's or 70's or newer eco villages but its down to wether the ownwer (or tenant more likely) cares about there home in a socially responsible fashion or do they expet the council to look after them and bale them out, and itsnot just so called chav's. I went to look at a nice classy house conversion at a village in norfolk (as the agents particular's would have me believe any way) When I got there I almost threw up from the stench of cat's and dogs sweaty trainer's etc. It wasnt a chav den by any means, they were wealthy farming people. And they wondered why it wasnt selling :confused: after 2 years on the market and dozens of viewings. They even used photoshop to air brush out a load of power cables that were right next to the house and spolied the pictures.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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Although I like the idea of sustainable building I do have grave reservations about people thinking that the building reguations are there just to provide jobs for council workers.
The building regs are there to ensure that people get safe, warm, and long lasting homes.

Far be it for me to suggest that the people who bleat the loudest about too tight building regs are the ones who don't know their ar** from their elbow when it comes to building and are the same ones that consider health and safety rules as a hindrance because they don't do anything more dangerous in their daily lives than carry some hot coffee across the office but...

I would be very interested to see how the house is wired up and how its plumbed in as well.
Some people seem to think that a roof is strong enough just because it hasn't fallen in yet and that a place is dry so long as water drains out faster than it drips in.
I like the idea of strawbuilt homes, just not always blown away by the execution of the technique.

Now planning regulations are another matter, those numpties are a law unto themselves.

<Nomex undercrackers? Yup they belong to me>
;)
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Why would the hovel, as it is commonly being called now, need to be wired up and plumbed in to the grid? If you stuck a few leisure batteries in and ran everything on 12 volts, or 24 volts or whatever you decide and pop a turbine up and some solar panels, then you'll generate your own power cleanly. If you are careful, you could live that way. Water could be a bore hole in the ground, you could grow your own crops and sell the surplus at your local market, maybe be a small holder and keep a few animals for youe own consumption.

It all sounds very romantic and ideal, and it could be if it wasn't for the usual suspects sticking their oars in saying you need to pay council tax for this and that and the other. I know it pays for more than the ususal utilities and the like, it covers the fire brigade and police and all that, but if you live out in the middle of nowhere in your straw built house, do you really think the fire brigade would get to you in time if your house caught light! I don't think so! You'd probably still be made to pay, there's just no getting away from it, but it would be a nicer pace of life than the rat race the majority of us live in, and if you can build your own home with simple materials that make a weather proof warm and attractive looking home, why not?
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,841
1,548
51
Wiltshire
Call me conservative, but if I was attempting a project like this, I would try restoring a black house.

(yes, there are no black houses in Wiltshire, so what?)

Your quite right Demographic (says she who has not worked in planning, but certainly has been involved in the enforcing of H+S law)

My idea for affordable, easily removable, housing was a little different, plenty of residential caravans (the holiday sort, not the prefab mansions you seem to see that cost as much as bricks and mortar without the investment potential of such materials...Ill have you know my bricks were made in the village claypit...)

This sort of thing would make a comfy pad for a single person (there are a lot of us) without the impersonality of a flat.

However, without proper regulation they would become slums (and yes, there are residential sites for the under 50s, theres one locally, and no, its not a slum because the owner vets people, and more importantly lives on site) and there is the space and planning problem.

no different to the Hobbithole.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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and if you can build your own home with simple materials that make a weather proof warm and attractive looking home, why not?


<Now, wheres that soapbox?>
Because when the vast majority of people are left to their own devices to build a house without regulations they usually knacker it up and make a slum.

No proper drains? Hey thats no problem water runs downhill away from the place.

No mains electricity? Just connect 20 12 volt batteries up in series to get the 240 volts.

Sanitation? Dig a trench.

Good strong roof with calculations from a structural engineer to show how strong it is? Its been OK so far.

No proper heating? Just build a fire in the place.

Now don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of sustainable living but lets not get to thinking that every officewallah and his dog can just start building houses with no previous experience or having to conform to pretty basic and common sense rules cos thats not a great plan.
I would personally like to build a strawbale house and roof it over but not for the kind of people that think that a good house can be built for four grand.

I have a bloody great thick book about the building regs and although I don't even pretend to remember them all I do have to say that every one I have read so far has made sense.

It does seem that those who have not had much to do with it have the biggest opinion about the rules being there to hinder people, but the people who work with them every day see them as common sense and are there for the safety of the housebuyer/owner/tennant.

<Gets of box>;)
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Well, there must be exceptions in that book because i read on one of the sites that three buildings are in the process of being constructed with old car tyres and rubble as foundations, straw bales with lime was on the oputside and some sort of roof, not sure what as they haven't got that far yet, and all with planning permission! I'm not against the planning permission, don't get me wrong, but if you need to start paying an architect to draw up the plans to make a straw house, then i was making dens as a kid illegaly and I need to go and get my suit with arrows on it on and set off straight to clink!

Too many people want to make a cut out of other peoples' business and that is what infuriates me. If there is a tried and tested plan for a straw hut, why does it need to be OK'ed by other people? Surely the first one was OK'ed and therefore the rest should be OK as long as they are built to the same standards. I'm with you on the 240 volts by sticking umpteen batteries together, but then that wouldn't be sound anyway. 24 volts would be ample if you wanted to live a more basic life without TV and washing machines. heating could be done with wood fires, no gas required. It is all possible, but there isn't much money in it for builders, gas engineers and electricians i suppose, hence the doubters!

Edit: My shift key is knackered, but I can't be bothered to go back through and correct it all. Call me lazy if you like, but I've had one of those days! I think I pulled a muscle in my back escaping from Shewies' Death Woods last night, so didn't et much sleep! I am a grumpy fellah at the moment!
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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Well, there must be exceptions in that book because i read on one of the sites that three buildings are in the process of being constructed with old car tyres and rubble as foundations, straw bales with lime was on the oputside and some sort of roof, not sure what as they haven't got that far yet, and all with planning permission! I'm not against the planning permission, don't get me wrong, but if you need to start paying an architect to draw up the plans to make a straw house, then i was making dens as a kid illegaly and I need to go and get my suit with arrows on it on and set off straight to clink!

Too many people want to make a cut out of other peoples' business and that is what infuriates me. If there is a tried and tested plan for a straw hut, why does it need to be OK'ed by other people? Surely the first one was OK'ed and therefore the rest should be OK as long as they are built to the same standards. I'm with you on the 240 volts by sticking umpteen batteries together, but then that wouldn't be sound anyway. 24 volts would be ample if you wanted to live a more basic life without TV and washing machines. heating could be done with wood fires, no gas required. It is all possible, but there isn't much money in it for builders, gas engineers and electricians i suppose, hence the doubters!

Edit: My shift key is knackered, but I can't be bothered to go back through and correct it all. Call me lazy if you like, but I've had one of those days! I think I pulled a muscle in my back escaping from Shewies' Death Woods last night, so didn't et much sleep! I am a grumpy fellah at the moment!

To be fair, I did just chuck the 20 12 volt batteries bit in to see if anyone noticed:D
It was done to show that without some form of building regulations, any wally could wire their house up in pretty much any way they saw fit.

I am in principle, all for strawbale houses as I think they are an environmentally friendly way of building, what does get up my nose a bit is people saying that building regulations get in the way.

I agree that planning restrictions get in the way and are subject to the whims of nimbys everywhere but building regs are generally put in place to ensure people live in well built, well insulated and dry long lasting homes.
Straw bale houses must hbe to some extent tested so the person planning them can build them in a way that will be safe, above a certain height I know that its better to have a timber frame with straw infill than just straw bales giving it strength.

I am totally happy with the idea of working in strawbale homes as well, I am a carpenter and they will still need a roof, floors, doorways, little cute cubby holes, blah blah blah.

I am not so blown away by the thought of complete newbies thinking their roof is going to withstand a good winters gale just because its built like a teepee (sp?) and have heard of enough dodgy things being pulled up during building regs inspections to understand that without that safety net for the homeowner things would be chaos.

If I seriously thought that I could build homes for four grand I woudn't be typing this out to you now, I would be lifting straw bales onto a wall and doing it myself;)

Not against strawbale homes, just pointing out that they should be tested and proven as a design and that way the loadings imposed on their structure can be seen and understood by whoever builds them, also the very fact that this is even being discussed via a computer based forum suggests that we are quite fond of some form of mains electricity;)
I am against inexperienced people putting rooves on because a roof is pretty heavy and I wouldn't want one to fall on me, it would sting a bit.

Also I would happily work on one for cheaper than my usual rate (travelling distance considerations taken into account and bearing in mind that I still have to live) just because I am personally interested in them.

Regards Scott.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Although I like the idea of sustainable building I do have grave reservations about people thinking that the building reguations are there just to provide jobs for council workers.
The building regs are there to ensure that people get safe, warm, and long lasting homes.

Far be it for me to suggest that the people who bleat the loudest about too tight building regs are the ones who don't know their ar** from their elbow when it comes to building and are the same ones that consider health and safety rules as a hindrance because they don't do anything more dangerous in their daily lives than carry some hot coffee across the office but...

I would be very interested to see how the house is wired up and how its plumbed in as well.
Some people seem to think that a roof is strong enough just because it hasn't fallen in yet and that a place is dry so long as water drains out faster than it drips in.
I like the idea of strawbuilt homes, just not always blown away by the execution of the technique.

Now planning regulations are another matter, those numpties are a law unto themselves.
;)

Why are U getting into such a pan ****e about building regs :confused: If U would of read my post at least, U would of seen that I said that SOME planning reg's are a good thing, but that they are taken to excess more for the benefit of the mortgage lender's and insurance industry to protect the quality of there investment, and this also "creates" work for jobsworths in the council. I never mentioned building reg's at all, your just touchy about that for some reason. (well I guess I am too, I object to paying increasingly extortionate amounts of poll tax to finance nebulous and inefficient local authority jobsworth wages and pension's)
Any way if building reg's are so clever why do they allow for stupidity (eg clad houses with so much cheap and nasty VINYL, render old timber frame houses with non breathable mortar, allow people to fit upvc window's). I thought one of the main concerns in making a fit building (apart from setting out the sturucture so its able to withstand live/dead load's, wind/snow load's etc), is the constant need to prevent or manage ingres of water, or include ways to let the building breathe? Most modern "dwellings" are hermetically sealed boxes they dont breathe. Fresh air let in does wondes thats why they invented air brick's. U might have a idealistic utopian view of why we have "building reg's" and it might be partly true (make safer warmer houses etc), but there is also the inscapable fact that they go hand in hand with the demands of the construction industry, finance and insurance industry and also political fashions and trends as well.
Its perfectly normal to be a nimby; who in there right mind would want EG a massive wind farm, or an abattoir on there doorstep :confused: The local council want to allow the biggest multi species abattoir in europe to be built on a green field site less that 1/2 a mile from me. If they wanted to alow that right near your home can U honestly say U would be pleased? Or if they wanted to put up one of those stupid and virtually useless (except to enertrag) windfarms, would U be delighted about it? No U would be RIBBED (relieved its being bult elsewhere darling)
As for "alternative" construction method's your right they can be disastrous if badly executed, and theres a lot of establishment resistance to this as it upsets the cosy mortgage/insurance/mas volume construction industry/local authority grand plan relationships, the british public is rather expected nowaday's to be herded into estates like cedars park at stowmarket, all open plan, crammed in, conveniently next to a supermarket, cheap crappy looking characterless houses. The establishment wants to maintain as much control over house building as it can, independent minded maverick folk are the danger to there agenda. And who is some jobsworth official to determine if such and such a dweling is fit for such and such a person any way? But theres no reasson why these alternative construction method's cant be seriously taken on board and done well, even set out a series of reg's to make it "official", maybe U could pioneer that?. The building industry is wasteful and inefficient, but I believe there is a futuer for (or return to the tradition of) low impact housing, which in the long run is more likely to reduce environmental damage than if U wash your rubbish and pay the council to take it away.
PS can I ask waht method you use to get rafter length's and plum and seat angles if your doing a cut roof? I always ask carpentrs, some are bodge and trimmit trial and eror, others have precise sytem's.
cheers Jonathan :)
 

Cobweb

Native
Aug 30, 2007
1,149
30
South Shropshire
I think it's a great idea. I'd love to be able to take three years off and build one, at the moment I can't, I don't have enough savings.

I can see that these straw bale homes would need to be regulated, the roof has been mentioned before and I reckon that it would definitely need to be made to certain standards so it doesn't blow away in a mack 10 gale.

I would love one, they really appeal to me :)
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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I think it's a great idea. I'd love to be able to take three years off and build one, at the moment I can't, I don't have enough savings.

I can see that these straw bale homes would need to be regulated, the roof has been mentioned before and I reckon that it would definitely need to be made to certain standards so it doesn't blow away in a mack 10 gale.

I would love one, they really appeal to me :)

They appeal to me, the ones I have read about have a concrete or brick bottom foot or so which means the straw walls have in effect "waterproof boots" which would help a lot.

And for Mr Dazzler, plumb cuts are rather unsurprisingly enough vertical and a small spirit level tells us that and a seat cut is at 90 degrees off vertical which if you remember from school is horizontal.

Once you have one thats right (try it at both ends of the roof to make sure as bricklayers sometimes seem to forget what a level is) and you can cut a batch of them.

It can be done on a calculator but as far as I am concerned its quicker to do on site than trying to ratch out the cos sign and tan functions on the calculator and that still doesn't account for the wallplate being higher at one end as is often the case.

In a perfect world you could do all of this without leaving the ground and the walls that the brickies build would always be exactly as wide as they should be and level at the top.

You might also find that most modern rooves are not hermetically sealed and are in fact felted with a breathable membrane (Tyvek or something like it) and new windows have trickle vents built into them as well;)

I wouldn't ming living right next door to a windfarm as I happen to think they are quite beautifull but its in the eye of the beholder, can't say I would be too impressed at living next to an abattoir but you might note that I am considerably less impressed by planning authorities than I am building regs.

I would love for the huge cost of new building to be considerably reduced and if strawbale houses do it in a safe and sustainable way I support it, still nobodies going to get away with telling me that building regulations are a bad idea and not have a well thought out and fact based arguement to back it up.

Some element of modern building is wastefull and I am doing my best to help that by taking any offcuts of wood (that would otherwise go in the skip) home for my mates woodburner;)

Now, whats this roof your wanting to build?

Scott.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
I'm not (wanting to build a roof) at the momoent particularly, but I have done several before, various lean to and other sheds/log store etc, not a full blown house roof yet, but start small and build confidence from there I reckon. I drew out the rafters full size on the floor on big ply wood sheet's laid together, once I knew the span and rise. (french style) My rafters fit perfect each time, no saw carving or other fiddling to get them to fit up. It is my intention to build a shop from a timber frame, english scribe method, english tying joints, riven studs, possibly even hazel and daub rendered walls and pegged shingle roof, or maybe wany clapboard cladding, not sure yet. Vernacular methods, but still structurally sound. Councils dont like it because this doesnt sit comfortbly in there systems, too far off the beaten track for them, too abnormal.
Hey demographic, I dont think any one's saying building regs ar bad or uneceassry, I can se the value of some minimium structural standard's of spacings and dimensions for joists/rafters to avoid excessive deflection, bear intended load's, minimum sizes for footings etc, for the simple reason that materials have there limitations and there's optimum ways to utilise them; mind you, if quality of house construction depended on reg's why are there excellent long standing houses built long before reg's ever existed or at least became the domain of the local council jobsworth? The challenge for "alternative" new sorts of materials and methods is to first get rid of the industry prejudice around them especially with council people, and also to adopt them as equally valid as "industry preferred" familiar methods, and also to establish minimum structural standards. Like with the health service, where they finally now accept and make use of "aternative" healing methods that would of been unthinkable not too long ago. Some aspects though are stupid and defy sense (eg rendering a 500 year old oak frame with concrete mortar, why do people not get pulled for that stupidity) :confused: Why dont the building inspector's insist that all concrete render be ripped off and replaced with the oriaginal and proper lime version, total mystery to me especially when a lot of those dwellings are very old and historical. Unless they think that basic laws of nature have now changed and moisture trapped inside an impermable surface WONT cause condensation and dry rot any more?
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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I'm not (wanting to build a roof) at the momoent particularly, but I have done several before, various lean to and other sheds/log store etc, not a full blown house roof yet, but start small and build confidence from there I reckon. I drew out the rafters full size on the floor on big ply wood sheet's laid together, once I knew the span and rise. (french style) My rafters fit perfect each time, no saw carving or other fiddling to get them to fit up.

Thats cool, although I have done a traditional roof pretty much that way before (well one with large oak trusses about 20 feet across then purlins from one truss to the other) its quite rare for the brickies to get the wall plate level enough to do that and get away without having to make allowances to get it to string through with any degree of accuracy.


I'm not saying that on a house sized or bigger building (I have put one on a school assembly hall as well) its not possible, all I am saying is that its never been possible to do it that way on the ones I have worked on so far and get them accurate enough.
Theres always a certain degree of "we are getting a bit low here so might have to make the birdsmouth 2mm smaller" or whatever.

About the only time we can do it that way is if we have built a timber frame and because of that we have also set the wallplate.

If we were doing timber framed buildings where we square the building up and level it all up we could do just about all the cutting from plan.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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Not very clever. Mains is AC, batteries are DC. Major difference.

As I already pointed out, I was kidding on that one and just seeing if I could slip it past whilst I was taking the mick;)

Mind I have heard of people using banks of batteries to store electricity in wind generation systems then a DC-AC inverter to provide ~240 volts.

The point I was making was that some form of reguation will always be needed to stop most unskilled wallys from building unsafe houses.
It will never be stopped completly as there are always some that slip through the net but it does lessen it.

Regards Scott.
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
23
Scotland
Mind I have heard of people using banks of batteries to store electricity in wind generation systems then a DC-AC inverter to provide ~240 volts.

From Wired Magazine...

"A group of volunteer engineers are finishing the design for a home-brewed wind turbine that will bring electricity to off-the-grid Guatemalan villages by this summer."

Interesting take on a budget wind turbine.

The article...

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/03/wind_turbine

The project web site...

http://www.ewb-sfp.org/projects/ATDT/work2.html

:)
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,699
721
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From Wired Magazine...

"A group of volunteer engineers are finishing the design for a home-brewed wind turbine that will bring electricity to off-the-grid Guatemalan villages by this summer."

Interesting take on a budget wind turbine.

The article...

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/03/wind_turbine

The project web site...

http://www.ewb-sfp.org/projects/ATDT/work2.html

:)

Thats not far from the vertical savonious rotors made from old oil drums.
Theres a Youtube link to one HERE and HERE.
I wouldn't mind making one as I read about them years ago but theres not much use for one where I live so haven't bothered, can't be rocket science to knock up though and although some of the ones built don't have a proper bearing, I would have to cos otherwise it will waste energy.

I wonder if one of my mates (who lives in a very windy area) would want one, Hmmm.
 

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