Government Consultation - Shotgun Licensing

[Kiri]

Hi,

The Government are running a consultation at the moment about Shotgun licensing. (The subtext being that as always they want to make it more difficult to get one.)

It closes on 23 August.

This may be of interest to some members.

https://www.gov.uk/government/…commendations-for-changes

 

[Damascus]

They want to make them section 1 firearms, why?

 

[TeeDee]

They want to make them section 1 firearms, why?

Probably because the general rule of thumb is you have a general 'right' to own a SGC whilst for a Firearms licence you have to show a reason.

For a SGC they have to show good reason why you can't own one.
For a Licence you have to show good reason why you need one.

I'm grossly over simplifying it but

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

Always handy to have a knee jerk reaction when some silly prat does something atrocious with a shotgun.... forgetting that had things been dealt with correctly at the time, under the current laws, he shouldn't have even had one!

 

[Paul_B]

So if you have no good reason to have a shotgun why would you want a license for one?

BTW I'm sure ppl with family or friends killed by a nutter with legal shotgun would not see gun control in response to actual incidents as a knee jerk reaction. Often it's the victims or survivors or family that want such changes.

 

[slowworm]

So if you have no good reason to have a shotgun why would you want a license for one?

That's not what it means. To have a section 1 firearm you need 'good reason' which tends to mean land to shoot over and a reason to (e.g. vermin control) or be a member of a target shooting club. Whereas a section 2 shotgun you don't need to have land or be a member of a specific club because many holders will shoot over all sorts of different land, clay grounds etc.

This is something that has worked well for years and the police can still stop someone from having a shotgun.

 

[slowworm]

This page from BASC may be useful to those who wish to fill out the consultation. Scroll down the page and it explains their suggested answers.

Changing rules on gun ownership – action required - BASC

Find all the information you need to respond to the Home Office consultation on gun ownership in England, Scotland and Wales.

basc.org.uk

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

So if you have no good reason to have a shotgun why would you want a license for one?

BTW I'm sure ppl with family or friends killed by a nutter with legal shotgun would not see gun control in response to actual incidents as a knee jerk reaction. Often it's the victims or survivors or family that want such changes.

Of course they wouldn't, typically because many don't have a simple understanding of the laws that are already in place. The most recent incident involving a lunatic targeting random people in the southwest should have been avoided had the laws already in place been utilised. It was an evidence of police error, not law error.

We see the same sorts of things with knife laws... how many law abiding normal folks find things get totally changed to the point of ruining their hobby when the laws in place were potentially ample at the time.

 

[TeeDee]

Of course they wouldn't, typically because many don't have a simple understanding of the laws that are already in place. The most recent incident involving a lunatic targeting random people in the southwest should have been avoided had the laws already in place been utilised. It was an evidence of police error, not law error.

We see the same sorts of things with knife laws... how many law abiding normal folks find things get totally changed to the point of ruining their hobby when the laws in place were potentially ample at the time.

Well put - some people need to open their brains.

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

@TeeDee
Thank you.
Its one of those sorts of topics that really gets my goat. I totally understand this desire to be safe from raging lunatics, but legally owned gun crime is so isolated and numerically low in this country, the desire for tighter more restrictive laws just seems silly.
I'm not boy in blue and I don't pretend to know how hard their job must be, but from someone who is merely an armchair expert on the matters, the thoughts of additional efforts only suggest more paperwork and potential for mistakes...

I firmly believe we need to stop asking for more and more rules to keep us safe... we are safe... for the majority this is one of the safest places to live on the planet... No natural predators, no natural disasters, crime really isn't an issue for most, not significant crime anyway, our roads are decent, our driving standards are fantastic (despite our daily comments sure...), we live in a democracy (haha).
It's high time we learn to be adults and stop needing our hands held by some higher authority... certainly not if its a government anyway..

I'm also not a loon worried about government control, I just don't think the shower could run a bath...

 

[GSW]

Hi,

The Government are running a consultation at the moment about Shotgun licensing. (The subtext being that as always they want to make it more difficult to get one.)

It closes on 23 August.

This may be of interest to some members.

https://www.gov.uk/government/…commendations-for-changes

Only recently, I took the opportunity to look into S/gun permits. Hadn't realised until that point that a big difference exists between a F/arms cert and s/gun licence. The latter is a legal right unless the local police can find any reason why you shouldn't. Former? no legal right to a consent. So I guess the likelihood of it becoming more difficult as you say, will all be down to a change of emphasis rather that hurdles.

Besides, explore the Adder and its brethren. No licensing whatever just >18 years old. Watch Georg Sprave on YT. I note an interesting revelation by Andy's Air Guns on YT recently. Seems his first encounter with X/bows -

. Note his amazement. And he hasn't handled a really, Really powerful unit.......yet. I'm working up from 80m and at that, 1.5" from bull. I'm aiming (forgive me) to get to 150m and perhaps further:

Sorry, duplication can't seem to remove 2nd. But see:

 

[Chris]

MPs oppose plans to change shotgun licensing rules

During the debate, not a single MP spoke in favour of merging shotgun and firearms licensing, delivering a clear rejection of the proposals.

basc.org.uk

Good news (tentatively).

 

[Broch]

Not in my opinion
But we all have our views.

 

[johnnytheboy]

Gun ownership, would go through the roof if they passed this!

Folk think it’s worse for gun owners or potential owners, the truth is that everyone would just apply for shotgun, rimfire and centrefire, there would be three times the amount of guns owned!

Why would you just apply for shotgun, you’d apply for firearms as well!

 

[Broch]

I doubt it. The majority of people around here with shotguns wouldn't get anywhere near being approved for an FAC - many of them I wouldn't trust with a pop gun.

 

[johnnytheboy]

You might doubt it but your wrong!

The gap between the two now is minimal!

 

[rarms]

You might doubt it but your wrong!

The gap between the two now is minimal!

I would suggest you are wrong.

At the moment you have a right to a shotgun certificate with no reasons.

If sec. 1 rules applied:
You would need to list a reason for each shotgun, why do you need more than one or two of the same calibre Sir?

You would need secure storage for cartridges. A 12 bore cart is a fair bit bigger than a .22lr.

You would need land permission approved for your shotguns along with good reasons to own each one.

If you want one to shoot clay pigeons you need to join a HO approved clay club, complete three visits a year etc..

 

[Broch]

@johnnytheboy, I'm not going to argue with you - but I do not consider myself wrong (more polite response would have been "I do not agree"). I have both and I know how much easier it is to get a shotgun ticket. I also know that a number of my neighbours really shouldn't have them; I encourage a more robust assessment of need and suitability.

 

[Chris]

What are the statistics on crime involving legally held shotguns?

I don't think it'll encourage people to get more S1 firearms, if anything it will put people off due to the rigorous process (clearly the government aim). But I do wonder whether this is a law that's needed based on data that backs it up, or whether it's just 'because guns bad'?

 

[rarms]

What are the statistics on crime involving legally held shotguns?

I don't think it'll encourage people to get more S1 firearms, if anything it will put people off due to the rigorous process (clearly the government aim). But I do wonder whether this is a law that's needed based on data that backs it up, or whether it's just 'because guns bad'?

Data can be swayed anyway it's wanted.

Undoubtedly legally held shotguns have been used to commit murder/crime.

I don't think the changes are needed, or justified for the impact that this change would have on the industry, firearms users and even the police already struggling to process applications currently.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with your insinuation in brackets, and your last three words.