Vintage rucksack hip belt replacement

[Woody girl]

Woody Girl that pack looks a little like mine, are they Scotch pockets of about 8 litres capacity? The hip belt on mine was a bit more sophisticated more like one of the Karrimor belts, a bit shaped and padded and secured to the frame with [ I think] webbing and a couple of D-rings

Absolutely no idea of the capacity of the thing. It was a fiver from the charity shop last summer. It got thrown into my pile of projects, and I knew I'd just need to make or source a better hip belt. I've realy not tried it out yet in any way, though I'm planning to use it for some vintage gear camping trips this summer, hence its come to the top of things to sort in time for summer.
It does look as if can carry more than my 60 litre internal frame pack, which is about triple the weight with no gear in it.!

 

[Siberian Mongoose]

Ta for the photos Woody Girl. It would probably be impossible to fit the Savotta hipbelt adapter to this frame, as the L-shelf might get in the way. Anyhow, it seems that GreyCat has a cheaper solution!

 

[Woody girl]

Ta for the photos Woody Girl. It would probably be impossible to fit the Savotta hipbelt adapter to this frame, as the L-shelf might get in the way. Anyhow, it seems that GreyCat has a cheaper solution!

Thanks for your imput anyway, it might help someone else, so not wasted.

 

[Moondog55]

I bought a NOS American MOLLE hip belt for one of my old frame packs, they work rather well. Postage might cost a bit but with luck you might find one in a local surplus store

Field Used US Army Large Rucksack Waist Belt Hip Belt ACU Digital UCP Molle II | eBay

These can be used at CIF turn in.

www.ebay.com

 

[GreyCat]

Grey Cat, you are so kind. I'd appreciate some expert help with this as I'm not great at sewing, (knitting is my bag) and having difficulty visioning things, I'm very much a visual learner.
I'm on the edge of exmoor, so not too far away. It would be great to meet you, and sort it out properly with someone who knows what they are doing and has fettled this type of pack before.
I'll pm you this evening with my location and phone number and we can have a proper chat.

Hi Woody Girl, that's fine, I have my own business and work from home most days, so no issue discussing on phone initially.

Might be a good first stage after that to meet in person and see if the later design belt might suit you, either way it's a start to making up something that does work. Exmoor is a nice day out for me

The way the belt is attached to the older frames is quite simple and I think that the later belt could be adapted, and if not a newer belt made and attached, the attachment system lends itself rather well to making a new alternative.

These old frames are in many ways such a good carrying system, I do prefer the Berghaus design to the Karrimor frame, although the Karrimor frames can be set up to carry either big or small bags- I just changed the set up of one from large to small bag the other day, after at least 40 years of use the screws came out of the plastic bushing with no problem and could be reused to put the bracing pole lower down to allow for the smaller bag. Proper quality engineering, built to last- no mean feat in aluminium.

I guess times change, but I'm just a bit of an old-fashioned luddite who appreciates well-build older stuff and also likes to be able to tinker and make it more of a custom fit.

And sometimes, the newer designs are only "better" for the manufacturer- not the customer.

GC

pee ess I am in no way an expert, just tinkered a lot over the years and grew up sewing stuff. Knitting defeats me however.

 

[Woody girl]

Oh, I'm a luddite too, I think that I stopped being modern in the 70's!
New for new's sake is a bit of a bugbear of mine.! I was brought up to mend and adapt or make do.
My pet hate..marathon bars! Why, oh why did someone think that all the expense of renaming and redesign was nessasary?????????? It's still a marathon bar, whatever else you call it!
So, txt me with your number and a time to call, and we'll have a meet up and get this belt and frame sorted between us. Looking forward to meeting you.

 

[Siberian Mongoose]

Another luddite here! I don‘t even have a cellphone, my computers are old (Linux can be made to run on old ones), and i have mostly handtools including a scythe. I like things to last, no obsolescence, which sometimes means more expensive: i tend to buy tools and kit made in Japan, USA, UK, or Europe, and also have some really old ones such as a slasher that looks like a Klingon weapon.

I also have a 1950s Singer electric sewingmachine with interchangable cams for different stitches, and can be —with the motor removed— fitted into a Singer treddle base…should i ever find one.

Oh, and what about ”exciting new packaging”!!!

 

[Woody girl]

I like old stuff too, tho I'm sure I'd miss my electric kettle and I've only had a washing machine and shower for the last 15-20 years, which is a godsend with my spine being so knackered! Handwashing big stuff is not on any more, and i only have a bath if there is someone else in the house, as ive got stuck before now. Other than that, I'm happy without TV, computer and microwave, or these new fangled air fryers!
Last week, my h/a wanted to rip out a perfectly good bathroom and junk the bath toilet and wash basin. Only to put in identical units, and rip out my self bought expensive tiles and replace with plain white cheap things! . I told them, no way! some new taps is all I need, and id rather have new guttering and back door to replace the draughty ill fitting wood one (and match all the new upvc windows and front door. )The guy couldn't believe I wasn't out for a brand new set up, and left totaly puzzled.
I am getting my new taps, though they refuse the door and gutters, which do need replacing.
Oh and they want to repaint the outside ( again) which is absolutely fine, having been done only 6 yrs ago with 10 Yr guarantee paint. Duh! What a waste of money! I don't understand.

 

[Pattree]

Re- Snickers
Well - you’ve hit the nail on the head there when you said PET hate.

When Forest Mars Snr invented the Mars Bar he named it after himself. He named his second bar after his pet horse Snickers and the whole world knew it as the Snickers bar. However his marketing people said that the inhabitants of a muddy little archipelago on the other edge of the Atlantic wouldn’t buy anything with a name like that so in the UK it was given a more imperial name - Marathon. Changing to Snickers was a brand unification.

 

[Moondog55]

Would some LW tubular polyester sleeving help?
Just enough to make a couple of wings for left and right sides
It's 78mm wide and takes a bit of foam cut to about 60mm /70mm wide
I have a few metres left and would be happy to post you some. I should fit into a standard business envelope at letter rate.
You just have to find some old Karrimat to fill it with

 

[GreyCat]

I'm sure the sleeving would help, when the weather improves a bit I'll go down with some materials and other pack frames (some with better belts) to see Woody Girl and hopefully from that sort out a belt design that works..... and it's easier to use sleeving than to sew a tube because that reduces the seams required.

The great thing about the external frame packs is that they are much easier to customise, the fitting systems are all visible and easy to see- and modifiable. The older designs are rather ingenious actually, and it's quite fun to take a couple of frames and use the bits to do a customized frame that fits properly!

Wasn't the Karrimat invented when Karrimor realised the foam they had developed for rucksack shoulder straps could be used for other things?

GC

 

[Moondog55]

PM me a postal address and I'll put some in the mail, would a half metre be sufficient?

 

[GreyCat]

PM me a postal address and I'll put some in the mail, would a half metre be sufficient?

Hi Moondog,

That's very kind, I guess you realise I'm in UK? (I just noticed your location is Australia.....)

GC

 

[Moondog55]

A business envelope only costs me a couple of dollars and I've had the sleeve for decades. I used it for pull harness loops for sleds and pulks and tree huggers
Well $3:90 AUD

Postage calculator & delivery times - Australia Post

Calculate postage costs and estimate delivery times. Compare postage costs or find out when your delivery should arrive.

auspost.com.au

Money; it's tight; but not THAT tight

PM sent

 

[Siberian Mongoose]

Would some LW tubular polyester sleeving help?
Just enough to make a couple of wings for left and right sides
It's 78mm wide and takes a bit of foam cut to about 60mm /70mm wide
I have a few metres left and would be happy to post you some. I should fit into a standard business envelope at letter rate.
You just have to find some old Karrimat to fill it with

Hey Moondog, as i have no spare foam myself, and uncertain where i could buy it here, would any of this be useful to cover by wrapping around the centre strut of my Jääkäri XL? Sorry to beg, but I’m just across the ditch.

 

[Moondog55]

I've looked at the Jaakari, and I think it wouldn't be any good for that, too skinny and no padding at all

 

[Siberian Mongoose]

Ta for replying Moondog! That is the problem with the central vertical strut, no padding around it, hence with my back curved (not when straight) the lower part of my sticky-out, kyphotic spine touches it towards the bottom (the shoulder-adapter protects higher up), which i think could be dangerous to vertibrae should i fall; have no problem with my spine touching padding on other rucksacks. I can only adjust the complete harness to be 1cm higher as it is almost as high as i can get it, this causing, because of the geometry of the frame, the centre strut to be farther from my back: next to do.

Otherwise, i may have to buy an RP80 (i like the L-shelf), either complete frame with harnesses or complete with bag, as it has two vertical struts so avoiding my wonky spine, albeit the second highest horizontal crossbar is 10cm higher up (effectively 6.5cm regarding the bottom of the different bags) than with the LJK\XL-frame. Should i not be able to get the RP80-hipbelt-adapter high enough for my spine to avoid the crossbar, i should be able to make a frankenpack combining bits of both, especially using the XL-hipbelt system (of which if successful i could possibly buy separately so that the XL is then still complete—a shop in WA sells Savotta) which should be easier to raise to avoid the second crossbar. I wonder whether the XL-lid would fit the RP80. Fun eh!

 

[GreyCat]

Well, we got sorted in the end, and @Woody girl has a rucksack belt that fits.

I used waterproofed polyester canvas (heavy duty stuff) and webbing (1-inch and 2-inch). (I tend to keep a stock of both items as they are so useful for all sorts of stuff). Plus a roll of 3mm sticky back foam stuff, (3 layers) and a Prym 2-inch buckle (Prym is a decent quality supplier of notions and tools for dressmaking).

Here's a gratuitous photo of the attachment method:



Those little turnbuckles are easy to get, inexpensive and they make tensioning the webbing across the frame really easy. But failing that, it could be laced on with paracord.

The belt webbing is attached to the webbing which wraps around the frame so the load is all taken on the webbing. I used 2 one inch straps as that allowed one above the shelf and one below to locate correctly and keep the belt in place. Then there's padding inserted and of course the padding is all wrapped up in canvas:



My sewing machine is an "ordinary" domestic one (not even a Quilter) and so it was a bit grumpy about sewing some of the thicker areas, there are a couple of snaggles where it threw a wobbler on me. But it did cope.

The order of construction is important: Frame webbing loops made, then canvas onto those straps, then belt webbing strap attached, then finally the foam into place and sew it in, then tuck in the corners. No pattern- I just started with big pieces and cut/shaped as I went along.

@Siberian Mongoose - of the frames I have played with, the old Karrimor and Berghaus ones seem the best made and most comfortable.

What strikes me with this little project is how adaptable and versatile these old frames are. It's good to bring them back to life, next idea is try is making a decent shoulder harness. I have a bare frame (the one I used as the model in this) so making a full set of fittings for it (shoulder harness, belt, bag) would be a good project.

GC

 

[Woody girl]

Ain't she just a perfect gem?
It's a great fit and very comfortable, much more so than the 1 inch webbing strap I had before.
Thank you so much grey cat, I'm totaly stoked with it.
It has become my new favourite pack now. I can't feel any weight at all when empty, unlike my other packs, so once again I may be able to carry a pack and basic kit on my back at last! Every ounce saved is vital when you have spinal and hip problems like me.
So happy to have rescued this pack, and made it better, and more usable than before.

 

[GreyCat]

I appreciate the vote of confidence....

.... and hopefully this will encourage others to re-use older pack frames too, there's quite a few about on a well known auction site and with a bit of TLC, they can be put back into good shape and have another life.

Worth reflecting that the price band of the UK-made branded 1970's frames when new was probably akin to top-end external frame packs available now. The quality and workmanship for the Karrimor and Berghaus examples is good even if elements of the older designs (e.g. belts) were not quite as evolved as they are now.

The design of the older pack frames also reflects that it was expected to be a "lifetime" purchase and so there was a flexibility in use over time and between people. Feels like a more sustainable model.

GC