Unbelievable

[Doc]

In terms of people being killed by it, the most dangerous drug in the UK is undoubtedly tobacco. About half of smokers die from a smoking related illness. Over 100 000 people a year in the UK.

Next is alcohol. About 7000 people die directly from alcohol in the UK each year (alchol poisoning and alcohol liver disease) but when you add in all the other alcohol related deaths (trauma, some cancers, fires) it's more like 20 to 30 000. I don't have to do oncall now, but I used to spend many a Friday/Saturday night dealing with alcohol related trauma. Often in under-18s.

Alcohol deaths and alcohol consumption are going up - and the governments solution is to let pubs open for longer

Exact figures for drug deaths are difficult - maybe 3000 - but one problem is that we have loads of users infected with hepatitis C and it can take years fo serious illness to develop.

Modest use of alcohol is not harmful and probably beneficial, and it can be a valuable 'social lubricant' so it is a bit different from heroin in that regard. Dependence on heroin develops frighteningly quickly.

 

[sandbender]

Ravers in the UK have little idea how lucky they are, check these links out to see how they'd be treated over in 'the land of the free'...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dance_party_broken_up_by_police_in_Utah,_USA

http://www.modernfix.com/images/videos/Utah_rave_troops_invade.mov

 

[grahoom]

Took my two nephews to one of my fave bushcraft spots today on the back of the Sussex Downs, start walking up the hill and i can hear this thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, start thinking what the heck is that?

where was this mavers?

 

[weekend_warrior]

Ravers in the UK have little idea how lucky they are, check these links out to see how they'd be treated over in 'the land of the free'...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dance_party_broken_up_by_police_in_Utah,_USA

http://www.modernfix.com/images/videos/Utah_rave_troops_invade.mov

You're forgetting "the battle of the beanfield" at Stonehenge - happens here too.

Warning: this post wanders off topic a bit...

Sadly, I have all too much experience of drug/rave/free festival culture and goings on. I've seen too many close friends lives wrecked and then watched them struggle to maintain independence and dignity whilst facing a lifetime of drug therapy for various mental illnesses and the stigma of being a "loony" or "schizo" and, in some cases, become unemployable.

Romanticising about ancient cultures, dreamers and druids is not the reality of drug use and rave culture today - it's the disenfranchised and those seeking escape, adventure, to be part of a counter culture, to stick two fingers up at an Orwellian society or just because they have nothing else to do that form a good part of today’s crew. I’m not proud of the fact that I’ve been there and done that and luckily survived intact – what it leaves me with is a deep and abounding sadness for those who got and will get Lost in the b******t and the cheap chemicals.

I can honestly say that the great (drug free!) outdoors - fishing, walking, skiing, cycling and "wandering in the woods" saved my life. I can only hope that activities like bushcraft will help more people get in touch with the real realities of living, rather that the watery, spoon-fed, simulations of "reality" we get incessantly fed on MTV, TV in general and in the media. Ooo errr that was nearly a rant!

 

[Rhapsody]

Lots of primative peoples do this as part of their tribal life, why would we think white europeans are the only ones not allowed to do it?

Because that's what our law says?

No excuse but in terms of enviromental damage it's nothing compared to the waste our industry pumps out into our land/water daily. We pay enough in council tax to have the council send in one of it's crews to clean up the day after.

If my grandmother had heard me say that she would reply with something along the lines of "That's not the atitude, sonny-jim!".

If everyone thought "Ah, sod it, I'll just throw my junk all over the place; what does a little crisp packet/ fag-end/ beer can matter when compared to the waste from industry?" then we'd have six billion people making one heck of a lot of litter.

As for the rest of your post; I largely agree. These parties are often a fantastic atmosphere and, on the whole, harmless... but that's quite simply irrelevant to the situation. Imagine if Ghandi, Martin Luther King and the Dalai Lama where to go and, say, set fire to an area of natural beauty; would it suddenly become excusable because they're full of "peace and love"? I doubt it.

 

[Kepis]

where was this mavers?

Woods at the back of Wiston, by the Cedars

 

[bambodoggy]

Because that's what our law says?



If my grandmother had heard me say that she would reply with something along the lines of "That's not the atitude, sonny-jim!"..

Not wanting to labour the point here.....but I'm fully aware of our laws and very much in favour of sticking to them, however, I'm not obliged to fully agree with them, only to abide by them....which I do

I'd also tend to agree with your grandmother about litter, unfortunately not everybody else does so we need people to clean it up....that's the council's job. When I am in the woods I leave no mess at all let alone rubbish, I take out everything I took in and often stuff I find there too..... I'm a smoker and if you catch me on my way back from a walk in the woods and ask me to turn my pockets out you'll fine a heap of twisted up fag butts.....I'm that fanatical about not dropping litter.... but as I said I understand that others aren't like me and I don't judge them for it.

Maver, glad the nippers still enjoyed themselves and had a great time....and you're right, sounds like your words are sinking in.....lol....better watch what you say! lol

Cheers all,

Bam.

 

[Kepis]

I'm a smoker and if you catch me on my way back from a walk in the woods and ask me to turn my pockets out you'll fine a heap of twisted up fag butts.....I'm that fanatical about not dropping litter.... but as I said I understand that others aren't like me and I don't judge them for it.

Same here, way i see it, it's lighter to take out than it was to take in - hope that makes sense , i put all my dog ends in a bag and throw them in the bin when i get home.

Maver, glad the nippers still enjoyed themselves and had a great time....and you're right, sounds like your words are sinking in.....lol....better watch what you say! lol

Learnt that one yesterday, they have a new word rhymes with "hit" - oops