The straight crooked knife.

[jason01]

Thanks Hoodoo

Sorry your first didnt didnt work out Stew, I know well how frustrating it can be!! Ive been fitting them with the tang in line with the centreline of the handle on what would be the right hand side of a normal knife. Theyre not at all intuitive at first so it might help to roughly fit the blade into a straight handle just to get a feel for how the tool works before starting on a good handle. Not much help now youve made one I know!

On a blade with a single 30 deg kink upwards the palm up grip does call for the wrist to be quite twisted, but if the blade is also bent towards the bevel side a few degrees this causes the tip to rise slightly in use and alleviates some of the strain on the wrist, you can achieve similar with a straight blade by making the mortice for the tang deeper near the front so that the blade skews across the handle at about 10 degs, if that makes any sense!

Mine are based on the specs I found on the Freeholder site http://members.aol.com/mocotagan/freeholder.html but there seems to be a huge amount of minor variation amongst the examples Ive seen online so its all trial and error!

I'd love to watch you using a crook knife Jimbo and see how they should be used! I'm still trying to get over pulling a sharp edge towards me within striking distance of all my main arteries

 

[Stew]

Sorry your first didnt didnt work out Stew, I know well how frustrating it can be!!

It's ok - still useable for the moment but it means I'm working harder/more uncomfortably than I need to and so defeats the benefit of the design!

I'll rehandle it soon.

 

[OldJimbo]

A couple of the things on my list for last year was getting some video clips of me springboarding some trees and using a long crooked knife. Needless to say the things on my list never got checked off, since my grand-daughter had her own list!
A longer crooked knife is dangerous because while you are holding the wood to be shaped with the off hand, too many blood vessels are exposed to danger - and there's no way around that.
I did watch the Mears canoe building show and had a few scary moments. What those came down to is very simple. A crooked knife should be very sharp with polished edge, and bevels. I could easily shave with mine other than the long blade being awkward. I'd no more tug it through wood with force than I'd try to tug it through my heavy face stubble. That leads to accidents. All cuts should be smooth and easy with no sudden surprises...
Since a crooked knife is used with the grain, the edge lasts and the pain of sharpening is just with the setup. With your bevelled design, Jason, I'd suggest rounding and polishing the shoulder of the bevel, because that will reduce friction, too. I'd even suggest using a drywall sander with emery paper to slightly convex the flat on the top of the blade. This will also have an impact on the eveness of the shoulder of the bevel. Once all is done and highly polished with green buffing compound, I bet you notice a huge difference on how the blade moves through wood.

 

[Stew]

With your bevelled design, Jason, I'd suggest rounding and polishing the shoulder of the bevel, because that will reduce friction, too. I'd even suggest using a drywall sander with emery paper to slightly convex the flat on the top of the blade. This will also have an impact on the eveness of the shoulder of the bevel. Once all is done and highly polished with green buffing compound, I bet you notice a huge difference on how the blade moves through wood.

I did something right!

Mine is mostly convexed - needs a little work but almost there.

So is yours a flat grind Jimbo?

 

[jason01]

Yep definately a scary tool, to be treated with respect!

As for the bevels, you cant see it in my awful pics but both of those knives are slightly convex and mirror polished, with a flat mirror polished back, the picture of the two blades unmounted are before heat treat hence the rough grind, 80 grit belt I think.

One last try at a picture of the edge........

Still doesnt show the finish properly but that really is the best I can do with this camera and I refuse to spend money on a decent digital as I have a small fortune in conventional photo equipment sitting idle!

That particular knife was commissioned by a a customer, maybe he'll be able to take a better pic than me!

 

[OldJimbo]

That should certainly do the trick, Jason!
I still love my old Canon T90 - but now I have to go through the pain of getting my negative/slide scanner up on Linux. Now that people are flocking to digital cameras it might well be worth looking for a decent used negative/slide scanner. You can sure zoom in on a 28 meg jpeg!

Stew, all mine are pretty much flat on the bottom and fully convexed on top.

 

[jason01]

That should certainly do the trick, Jason!
I still love my old Canon T90 - but now I have to go through the pain of getting my negative/slide scanner up on Linux. Now that people are flocking to digital cameras it might well be worth looking for a decent used negative/slide scanner. You can sure zoom in on a 28 meg jpeg!

Stew, all mine are pretty much flat on the bottom and fully convexed on top.

Ahhh the T90, good camera but positively space age compared to most of my stuff. I have equipment here to produce process and print up to 5x4" negatives, b&w photography was my number one interest for years though I was always into bushcraft as well just didnt label it as such. My heroes were Salgado, Cartier Bresson, Sally Mann, Ansel Adams and his zone system rather than Mears, Kochanski and Nessmuk

Then SWMBO took over my darkroom/spare bedroom temporarily and my kit has been in boxes ever since, I do miss knocking out big beautiful silver prints, theres nothing like a big negative, they can keep digital and photo shop (and even colour for that matter)

Youre right though I must get something sorted out so I can start up again, it upsets me to see all my kit gathering dust but I cant bring myself to sell it and I spose it wont be worth anything soon now that instant digital has taken over! Ah well!

 

[OldJimbo]

The T90 was well named "The Tank" but there was never that much fun in using it. I did lots of weddings and grads for people and it worked extremely fast and reliably with the dedicated flash system - easily accessed metering. I still deserve a mechanical for my retirement and have my film loaders and tanks.
Since burned CD's and DVD's have limited lifespan, I wonder how many people will have their digital pics in 30 years.

 

[jason01]

The T90 was well named "The Tank" but there was never that much fun in using it. I did lots of weddings and grads for people and it worked extremely fast and reliably with the dedicated flash system - easily accessed metering. I still deserve a mechanical for my retirement and have my film loaders and tanks.
Since burned CD's and DVD's have limited lifespan, I wonder how many people will have their digital pics in 30 years.

Couldnt agree more re archiving digi photos Jimbo, technically they should last forever of course, but I'm sure they wont. So many digi pics never get printed now, just stored on digital media until it eventually degrades or is unreadable and inkjet prints are not thought to have much of a lifespan anyway, unlike archival printed B&W! I have photos of my ancestors from over 100 years ago, I doubt future generations will! I did a wedding once, but my available light (no flash) decisive moment pics didnt go down too well, I liked em but they werent your typical all smiling posed group shots but shots of inlaws scowling at each other out of the corner of their eyes and suchlike Was no pressure though as they had the traditional photographer working to the standard wedding formula as well!

My favourite 35mm camera is a 1950 Leica screw thread, no meter, no batteries, not at all difficult to use once youre familiar with them though the viewfinders on the early ones can be tricky if you wear specs, unobtrusive and beautifully built, with superb choice optics. Even have a bunch of original solid brass reloadable cartridges for them. They can be had for a fraction of the price of Leica M's too.

I always said if film and paper became unavailable I would go back to Cyanotypes or Tintypes or some such.

Anyway, I guess we've dragged this wayyyyy OT now! Better stop afore we get banned

 

[jamesraykenney]

Nice work! Although until I saw the actual blades with curved spines on the blue background, I got a sort of optical illusion and thought you'd put the blades on backwards...

Same here... I was about to post, asking him about it!
:yelrotflm

 

[Stew]

I've just been clearing through my computer and came across these pictures I took of the blank jason made for me before I mounted and convexed it.

Should help show the angles better, plus you can see the spur he put on the end.

 

[OldJimbo]

Actually Jason, we're more on topic than most threads.

A crooked knife is just a thing. With enough effort and practise, it becomes a valuable tool. While it won't work as fast as a bag of planes, chisels and draw knives, it does an incredible amount for its size. I'd doubt, though, that most people really need to get working on making a canoe, snowshoes or sled with any urgency.

Using a crooked knife, even for whittling to make a few simple items, will give a person perspective of modern life. As with older cameras, a person has to bring both knowledge and a desire to learn - and they sure have to be totally focused on what they're doing. Most of us aren't totally focused except when we're at work and under pressure...

Local native carvers here can make a very good living if they have the incredible talent needed. People only want to pay lots, though if the carving was made by a real First Nations person using real traditional tools. For that read non-powered hand tools. Now since the carver wants to make money same as everyone else, there is a temptation to speed things up and rough things out with power tools. The big question is whether anyone could tell with the end product which of course will have hand-tool marks. I bet most people will say no. I'd also bet that you will say yes. Just as you could look at one of my photographs and know my strategy or lack of it.. Carvings are much the same.

I go rambling on but I see that Stew has put up some pics of the blade. It's easy to see that people will want one because it's good looking and well thought out. I wonder how many people will see it as a perspective changing tool?

 

[Stew]

I go rambling on but I see that Stew has put up some pics of the blade. It's easy to see that people will want one because it's good looking and well thought out. I wonder how many people will see it as a perspective changing tool?

With your words added to the equation, I suspect a few. It's certainly going to make me think differently...

 

[jason01]

Wise words Jimbo as always.

I was never a great or gifted photographer though dedicated to understanding as much of the craft as I could for sure and controlling every aspect of the process but for all that my hit rate of snaps that I thought were any good was very low out of countless rolls of film and many long nights breathing in hypo fumes

Digital makes it easier to take a good picture (despite my efforts ) but some of the art and craft is definately lost from the process, Cartier Bresson was able to guess the light levels without a meter and focus his camera by feel before the viewfinder even got to his eye, sounds impossible in the digital age but it can be learned, its not so easy to learn to anticipate the decisive moment as he unnerringly did again and again though! Weegee even managed to do it with a lumbering great Graflex!

I think Im just a bit strange, I like doing things the hard way and the older the tools the better

Stew, thanks for providing a decent photo of your blade

 

[OldJimbo]

I guess in simple terms - the love of a thing and what it can do is more important than simply having it. I had a pile of HBC crooked knife blanks when I came up here, because I used to work for the Hudson Bay Co. I got them for a couple of bucks apiece back in the 70's because no-one at the Vancouver store knew what they were. After I gave them away to kids getting into carving, naturally I found it impossible to get more... Years passed until Hoodoo pointed out that a hoof knife sharpened up made a very decent small crooked knife. Later Gary Arenson in Alaska had Wostenholm make up a bunch of long bladed blanks to a model he had of an earlier HBC (non twisted tip). I rarely use the blades without thinking of those guys, because they sure added to my enjoyment of the outdoors!

I think Im just a bit strange, I like doing things the hard way and the older the tools the better

A little segue into photography is useful because it shows that knowledge is hard won. I'd figure that one in every hundred pictures taken ever satisfied me and I didn't think those were great! I doubt that there are that many hobbies where as soon as success is reached in some area, the standard is raised - and that's the fun of doing it.

Just to prove that you aren't the only compulsive obsessive seeker of knowledge:
- Here's a link to what has to be - if not the most detailed research on sharpening - enough to make most people dizzy:
sharpening

- Now I shave with a straight razor on a regular basis, and I agree with the conclusions in that paper as apply to a properly stropped razor being able to be improved by use of chromium oxide (green buffing compound) on a supported strop. Heresy on the razor forums, but it works for me...
- Having a razor that will shave just fine and last me my lifetime simply isn't enough after reading that research! What about the myth of having SEVEN razors and using a different one each day - because edges have to be "rested" in order to straighten? I couldn't see getting seven matched straight razors, so I did the next best thing and got a Durham Duplex (straight razor with removable blades) and then got a whole bunch of the blades. Not willing to stop there, I now have a bid in on the strange hand cranked machine which was used to strop the blades all those decades ago. I can't see how it could ever work as well as hand stropping, but a person has to know.....

And I'm getting some old junker straight razors to see if the notion that a crooked knife can be made out of a hollow ground straight razor could be correct. They haven't made many wedge grind in the last century.....

 

[jason01]

Wow! Interesting stuff, I'll have a good read of that article when I get chance.

Always fancied using a straight razor. Best shave I ever had was in a barber shop in Turkey with a straight razor, it was a pleasure to be "shaved" if a bit scary! The worst shave I ever had was also with a straight razor, when I borrowed a hairdressers razor, the type with a disposable blade, didnt do any serious damage but there sure was a lot of blood and I didnt even end up very smooth! I tend to live with stubble these days so I havent gotten round to getting a proper one!

 

[OldJimbo]

Straight razors are scary stuff - and so will a crooked knife be if sharp enough! The trick of a straight razor that allows it to get a super close shave is that it is moved slightly diagonally to give slicing potential on beard. The potential for slicing skin goes up dramatically if it isn't extremely sharp - because it catches and digs in.

 

[sam_acw]

back on subject; is there anyone who supplies this sort of straight(ish) crook knife.
I haven't got the facilities for grinding metal really so can't do it my self but i can do handles

 

[OldJimbo]

You have some great pics here of the ones Jason has made. I haven't heard of anyone else making them - and I haven't seen anything even close to what Jason made. The old ones on ebay are usually very inflated prices for what you get - as are non-concave razors to make blades from.
There's a link to making a handle in a few minutes on my webpages - just to show how. you can make a super one with a bit more time.
You might want to pick up a cheap hoof knife and sharpen it and try first. That'll help you see if you want an offset blade, blade length - and if a crooked knife serves your purposes.

 

[bushtuckerman]

Anyone know why a spoon knife is also called a crooked knife? I'm assuming it has similar history but have just become slightly confused!

-ian