The ideal Bushcraft Stove?

[lostplanet]

For Bob, I think I may have found an improvement on the original design as for me its the panel drop out that makes assembly difficult.

here's an idea you can try see how you get on. I replicated the extra tag with some thick gaffer tape and the 2 panels held together better than without. If you are not fighting gravity on the initial build I think it would help to have the panels kind of locked until you get enough pieces in place for it to naturally hold together. This would need to be done on all corners.

probably need to try different gaps for the best fit I went for material thickness 0.6mm to loose at 1.0mm. Tighter may not necessarily be better and I think the little lift on the edge "Small Tag" stops the drop out unless the panel is lifted and moved back to the gap at the same time at both ends.

Hope that helps,

 

[Laurentius]

Personally I am a fan of the Swiss army volcano stove.

It does an effective job using either twigs, solid fuel or a notkocher.

The notkocher itself is good enough with an effective windshield if you are happy with gel fuel.

What it is particularly effective at is heating water quickly, though the cup that comes with it is not ideal for more general cooking.

Nonetheless it will suffice and it is possible to balance a larger pot accross the top if you stabilise it.

I consider it to be very versatile and cheap.

It is not that inconvenient to carry when you consider that for all the compactness of anything else you still will be carrying the water, and the bottle that comes with it holds a full liter. Never mind the cork may appear a bit old fashioned, that again is more effective than it looks and is there for a reason, same as the cork in a kelly kettle.

 

[Podcast Bob]

Lost Planet - do have a rest sometime I will warn you that once you start down this road, you'll end up with very little sleep and raw fingers, along with bleary eyes staring into smoke and trying to calculate the combined effect of air flow, hole diameter and the resulting law of combustibility LOL!

It's addictive.

And sometimes … expensive ...

The modifications you suggest all have merit, however the comments which are consistent here and elsewhere is the more parts you have to build the stove, the more chance you have of forgetting/losing a piece. People call us who have lost a grill or a panel or a component part, so we understand how easy it is. Extra pins and clips are brilliant in design, but I suspect not so effective in practise. One thing I've always doubted myself with the Caldera Sidewinder Ti, which looks great on a table, but not so easy to spot in long grass.

Widu13 the fire pan issue has been raised more than a few times as preventing people from being able to use the Honey on campsites and at festivals, which is one reason I want to get it right if I can. But point taken, when out in the wild I too have never had a problem for a location, however the majority of users may not travel that far.

Even if not hinged, it needs to hold together as Lost Planet suggests while it is being assembled.

PS: I think the Honey does actually use the Wood Gas effect. You can often see the warm air being drawn in through the horizontal slots and re-ignited. Certainly the addition of a windshield accelerates this effect. One reason I suspect why the boil time is so efficient.

 

[Fin]

1) Flat pack / hinged easy to store
2) Fire pan or similar way of increased protection of grass etc
3) Ability to handle Crusader Cup as well normal pans and Mess Tins
4) Big enough firebox to ensure consistent cooking heat and larger pieces of fuel
5) Sturdy construction to take regular punishment
6) Ignore Wood Gas features
7) Accept slight weight penalty due to materials used, but still light enough to be practical to carry on a long trip
8) Expandability? Is this really important if the cooking area is big enough for 2 people? Beyond that you are getting into Frontier Stove territory surely?

Pretty much spot on Bob. With reference to point 8) My idea on expandability was a case of 'why not?'. One of the great things about the original Honey design was its modularity - it's already a system, with its four panel burner stand and (optional) Hive expansion. The user can choose what to take based on the trip involved. You rightly say that the Honey more than meets the cooking needs for two people in most camping type scenarios. I always felt that the Hive expansion wasn't quite big enough - bbq-ing for two (or more). A four panel expansion would provide a bigger Hive and give three 'stoves' with two 'bodies' (Honey, Hive and stand alone burner stand). Modifying the Hive into a small tent heater (not a cabin/ large tent heater) should be fairly simple from a manufacturing/ tooling point of view, and needn't be 'heavy weight' - flat plates/ front door to enclose the Hive and roll up foil chimneys...Something to consider for the future maybe.

As for 'UK made and proud!' - excellent sentiment and I'm with you - point out to the manufacturer(s) the, known, flaws in the competition and how your design is addressing them - that combined with your, already excellent marketing skills, should see a heavy discount based on volume.

 

[mountainm]

Just a thought - what about using magnets to hold it all together - would they work at high temperatures? You could have all the bits hinged off a baseplate (like a 4 sided flower) that fold into each other to pack and either magnets or a collar to bring them all together.

 

[lostplanet]

Thanks Bob, I know what you mean about addictive. I have around 8 projects going on in my head most of the time at the moment.

After I have slept on the Bent Tab idea, I think the first thing is the possibility of the tabs breaking off so there is a compromise between strength and weight of the materials.

And yes theory on paper and actual use are very different things. It will be fantastic when the final product works as intended.

 

[petrochemicals]

Just a thought - what about using magnets to hold it all together - would they work at high temperatures? You could have all the bits hinged off a baseplate (like a 4 sided flower) that fold into each other to pack and either magnets or a collar to bring them all together.

do you mean like a wegitable steamer, lots use them but you loose the true chimney effect ?

Also titanium ain't magnetic, and the closer to true stainless, steel is less magnetic

edit:

what happened with the wilderness stove ?

 

[mountainm]

do you mean like a wegitable steamer, lots use them but you loose the true chimney effect ?

No, more like a lidless box cut down it seams with the base intact. If you put a ridge about 2 inches down it would form an effective stop for a thin collar to bind it together.

It would fold over under to pack up small.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Just a thought - what about using magnets to hold it all together - would they work at high temperatures? You could have all the bits hinged off a baseplate (like a 4 sided flower) that fold into each other to pack and either magnets or a collar to bring them all together.

Magnets do not work at high temperatures, one of the techniques a blacksmith can use to check if their blade has reached a hot enough temperature when heat treating the blade is to see if a magnet sticks, if it does, not hot enough.

HTH

J

 

[mountainm]

Magnets do not work at high temperatures, one of the techniques a blacksmith can use to check if their blade has reached a hot enough temperature when heat treating the blade is to see if a magnet sticks, if it does, not hot enough.

HTH

J

Well they don't stick to red hot steel. But does a hot magnet stick to another hot magnet?

 

[The MAX]

Well they don't stick to red hot steel. But does a hot magnet stick to another hot magnet?

Magnets are created by placing a ferrous material in a magnetic field while the material is past it's Currie temperature. Which for iron is around 800 C. If you reheat the material to this temp while not in the presence of a strong field it will loose it's magnetic properties. Furthermore, magnets in general do not like being subjected to high heat or low cold, as over time they will loose their magnetic properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_temperature

 

[petrochemicals]

right bob, did a bit of diy on the size, took a 14 inch stainless drum and made a woodgas thing. No door only holes in the base and airflow through.

Re the width of the fire box I reccon the hive is about right. A 7" square or an 8" round/hehagonal, means you don't have to feed it too often, but you don't have a huge fire either.It also means that the fuel you add can go in randomly, too small and the fuel just piles up.

Also a thought is a tapered sloping bottom on the firebox if possible, as I reccon it would make lighting a bigger fuelbox easier, although it means more manufacture. Just an afterthought.

Height don't know

was there a reason for the door, as a sealed firedox aids the woodgas generation, and maybe a "dampner"?! I think they're called ,to suffocate the fire when not needed at full pelt.

Regards pete

edit

also fair bit of smoke, I guess thats why some stoves narrow towards the top ?

 

[Podcast Bob]

Thanks peeps, this is all helping as I've spent the week discussing options with some local fabricators all of whom are sharpening their pencils this weekend.

One product which has come out of all this research has enabled me to use that £2K's worth of tooling I've already paid for, so I hope to get a sample soon, which if it works as intended will turn a few products on their head.

I've also been testing these new compact backpacking grills today, running a fire with coal at full board for 6 hours to make sure the grills at up to it. I'm glad to say they are just right, so on the packaging stage next.

Their are a few other products being drawn up this week for sample testing, so all in all we've started the New Year with a bang. Once I get things confirmed I may see who wants to do some product testing maybe.

Anyway, back to this stove. The firebox is the key issue. It adds a lot of weight but saves the ground. I think this stove needs to make sure it is campsite friendly for maximum flexibility.

 

[PDA1]

I haven't used one, but I came across a stove named the Firebox nano today. Well worth you looking at it for ideas. There is also a firebox 5" stove. The nice thing about them is that they are hinged, so really easy and quick to set up. Difficult to assess reliability and longevity without some serious field testing.

You,ight also look at Zelph's folding woodgaz stove.

 

[Podcast Bob]

Thanks PDA. I've already seen these and I don't think they offer the same level of specifications I am hoping to bring to market, as discussed above.

They are far too open and flimsy and have no protection for the surrounding vegitation or ground so doubt you could use them on campsites.

I did check out the stoves from Bushcraft Essentials the other day and see they have copied a lot of the Honey Stove/Pocket Stove features and even called one of them 'Pocket Stove' which is a bit cheeky.

However the larger of the set is far, far too heavy and over engineered, even though it has the folding feature. However always good to keep abreast of what others are doing.

 

[Fin]

Thanks PDA. I've already seen these and I don't think they offer the same level of specifications I am hoping to bring to market, as discussed above.

They are far too open and flimsy and have no protection for the surrounding vegitation or ground so doubt you could use them on campsites.

I did check out the stoves from Bushcraft Essentials the other day and see they have copied a lot of the Honey Stove/Pocket Stove features and even called one of them 'Pocket Stove' which is a bit cheeky.

However the larger of the set is far, far too heavy and over engineered, even though it has the folding feature. However always good to keep abreast of what others are doing.

Quick correction Bob - I have the larger stove PDA1 is referring to and it is one of the few stoves out there to provide both aeration from underneath as well as ground protection. It does this with a slide in 'ash pan' which can also be used on top as a hotplate/ griddle (see my earlier suggestions) - it is one of the major, simple plus points of this stove IMO. On the negative side, it is a weighty item - good for base camp/ car camping (it's a cracking contained campfire) but I wouldn't put it in the category of all round bushcraft use. The honey system has much more potential if you can incorporate some of the features of stoves like this (it's also hinged, flat pack) whilst keeping the weight down. Easier said than done, I know, but then that's why you design and sell stoves and I don't!!

 

[mountainm]

wonder whether a carbon felt cradle would stand up to the rigours of multiple fires - it'd be super light. Supported by a stainless wire frame, you could call it a fire hammock.

Just an idea.

 

[Podcast Bob]

Any links to one so I can understand what you mean? Not heard of that before.

 

[mountainm]

Any links to one so I can understand what you mean? Not heard of that before.

Nope. Never been done before. Carbon felt is used in big mats by plumbers to protect from scorching when welding. It's a modern safe equivalent of asbestos. The alcohol stove designers use it for wicks too. It's fairly strong and very light.

The idea would be for a steel frame supporting a mat made from carbon felt. Like a hammock or a box. Raised up off the ground incorporating a pot stand. It would be a bit bulkier than a steel stove (the felt is thick like. .. erm felt. .) but much much lighter.

According to:
http://zenstoves.net/WickStoves.htm

It fails at1200°C

 

[mountainm]

Had another idea. How about using carbon felt to make the hinges. They could just rivet on to the steel sections, or even bolt on (home assembly required to save money) they would be light, forgiving, long lasting, dirt resistant.