The ideal Bushcraft Stove?

[Podcast Bob]

Most people know I designed the Pocket, Honey and Hive stoves which have been well received and enjoyed by many here and around the world, which is great and I'm humbled by the positive vibe there is towards them. Many, many thanks.

However as we all know, not every stove is perfect for all users. We all have different needs and like everyone else, I use a different stove depending on the trip or a combination. Most often a Honey and Meths Stove ..... Anyways...

I really value the feedback and input this forum has given me since I started with Mark 1 Honey back in 2007 and I am now in discussion with new UK manufacturers to see what skills they can offer to improve functionality at a reasonable cost. It is the UK after all.

The current range will continue and I am considering a completely new design which would compliment what we already have in the portfolio but be specifically of interest to the bushcraft user.

So what key features and elements would you like to see in a bushcraft stove? I'll kick off some key aspects I've been thinking about over Xmas. (Sad I know)

Does material matter? Aluminium or Stainless.
Does final weight matter? Less than or more than a kilo
Does size matter (Oooo darling!)? As small as possible or big as a Frontier Stove
What type of cooking would you like to do? In a pot/pan, on a grill, on a hot plate
Ease of construction? Clip, hinged, separate parts
Flexibilty with other stoves? Drop in Trangia or Coke Can Stove
Flat pack or tubular? Ease of packing or fit inside some pot
Free standing? In built ash tray to prevent scarring on campsites
Height? Does it need to be below a certain height or above
Woodgas or not? Adds a lot to manufacture and on small stoves seems no great advantage
Simplicity? What about a simple grill and nothing else. Can't get much simpler than that

The flexibility of the Honey being a square and a hex stove allowing compact solo cooking and a larger social heat source is well known.

The stove features I'm looking at here would probably be one fixed size.

If you have a moment and would like to contribute to the next generation please feel free to add any ideas or suggestions. Many thanks and all the best for 2014.

 

[Jazz006]

First of all a big thumbs up for the honey and hive, I got one of each last year and find it a very versatile little stove, love it.

I am fairly new to the bushcraft way but have been involved in the outdoors ( be it hillwalking or camping) most of my life, so my thoughts on your points bellow are -

Does material matter? Aluminium or Stainless. - For me no ,a lot of it would come down to cost of stove.
Does final weight matter? Less than or more than a kilo - weight is not that big a factor for me, it's more about the size of the stove.
Does size matter (Oooo darling!)? As small as possible or big as a Frontier Stove - as above I prefer a more compact stove.
What type of cooking would you like to do? In a pot/pan, on a grill, on a hot plate - to me the ideal stove can do a bit of everything, as I use my stoves for walking, camping and bushcraft throughout the year I like versatility in how and what I can cook
Ease of construction? Clip, hinged, separate parts - as much as I I love the honey it can be a bit of a fiddle when you are cold and wet, so clips or ideally a hinged construction for me.
Flexibilty with other stoves? Drop in Trangia or Coke Can Stove- yes yes yes, one of the things I really like about the honey is the multi fuel option, I tend to use either wood or a meths burner
Flat pack or tubular? Ease of packing or fit inside some pot - flat pack for me as it can slip down the back of your rucsac.
Free standing? In built ash tray to prevent scarring on campsites - yes on this
Height? Does it need to be below a certain height or above - as I said before size is important to me so it count not be too high.
Woodgas or not? Adds a lot to manufacture and on small stoves seems no great advantage - sorry not sure what wood gas is
Simplicity? What about a simple grill and nothing else. Can't get much simpler than that - again I like my stove to be versatile and have as many options as possible .


Hope this helps and gives you some thoughts from someone who is a bit of a newbie


Jazz

 

[mountainm]

I love my honey stove but recently I've been favouring a wood gas stove clone for the following reasons:

The compact size of a honey stove is great - BUT - given I have to take an awkwardly sized pot that fact that the woodgas stove fits in my billycan with a backup spirit burner renders the issue moot.
The honey is fiddley to put together - if it was hinged then I may use it more often than I do.
The woodgas stove burns for a lot longer.

I also often take a modded volcano stove out with me - it efficiently heats of a large quantity of water and given I carry my water in a bottle in the stove itself doesn't take up too much extra room - it wins in the fact it has everything I need, cup, kettle, space for my tatonka burner in one package. An alternative would be the crusader system but I prefer the tubular nature of the volcano stove - it's easier to pack and mod.

My ideal would be a spirit/twig burner combo that fits in my billy with a reservoir of fuel, room for a drinking cup, that is also light to carry, easy to setup/take down and doesn't get my other kit dirty.

My hive I use when I want contained warmth with a bigger group (2 or 3) - or I'm cooking a larger amount of food. The woodgas can't compete at this point.

I generally cook in a pan as I don't like the fat dripping into my stove. But have a grill option is useful.

Not leaving a fire scar is an important consideration and one that the woodgas fails at.

One often overlooked feature is a built in windshield.

How about something cylindrical - perhaps telescopic? Fits in a standard billy in a bag, insert for a trangia - stainless steel with a grill that doubles as a pot stand and a raised base.

Ideal price point around £30.

EDIT - Maybe a another option is to consider the overall cooking package
Pot, cup, kettle/water carrier, stove, spoon, fork - somethign that packs up compact and works as a unit.

 

[onfire]

I have way too many stoves and have not yet found a favourite so I wont confuse the issue with my thoughts on most of your questions.

My one comment (and I appreciate that I haven't had any experience with your stoves) is about materials. I bought the Yukon flat pack fire box made and sold on another forum and I found that the heat from my fires quickly caused the steel to warp to the point that I struggled to slot the box together and ended up welding it up. I now almost never use the setup as it is both heavy and bulky.

It may be that my fires were bigger / hotter than the box was intended to be used with but the point remains valid - I would always be wary of a bushcraft stove warping with heat

 

[Limaed]

I've got lots of stoves (including a Honey) and try to use them all. I tend to use a stove in summer and an open fire in winter but sometimes use the fire for warmth & cook on the stove. It's not acceptable to have an open fire everywhere so here I use a stove - wood burning if fuel is available or one of my other stoves if not.
My favourite pot is the 'Mors 1.8 ltr pot' for me it's near perfect. I would however prefer it in SS (for baking) & perhaps a better lid for occasional frying. My favourite stove system is the 'Swedish Army Trangia' once again I prefer the steel version but it is a very heavy beast. I like the fact that it's a complete cook set, the pot can be used over a fire and you can carry fuel and cup (plus a few other things inside). It's also simple dependable & durable.

If I was able to design a stove system for myself for bushcraft what I would want is a combination of the above: A decent pot in SS that can be used over a fire combined with a stove outer that can burn wood or used with a Trangia. The Holy Grail perhaps?

 

[woof]

I've made a few, & i'm playing around with the latest one at the moment. Material to me anyway is'nt an issue, & i use mild steel as its cheaper, it rusts, but you are setting fire to it anyway, & you could always spray with heat resistant paint.
Keeping ash off the ground is a must for me & make mine with this in mind. I'm currently thinking longer & narrower, so it will take 2 crusader style mugs/12cm billy cans. My current one is square & a little oversize, so i'll be reducing it.
So simple design, under a kilo, ash tray off the floor, big enough for 2 crusader mugs, & use any material.

Rob

 

[petrochemicals]

dear Bob

big so you don't have to fuss over feeding the flames.

simple to construct if at all.

Titanium for the rust protection whilst still being able to burn wood. (do not know whether your stainless rusts after heating if left in the rain)

stable and solid

a circular mess tin about 7" round by 3" high that fries too with "Ceramicore"(tm) high heat non stick.(450¤c!)

not worried about the pack size really within reason

yes definatley a fire protection thing, always good on peat or heather.

Trangia, alternate fuel source adaptable.

Regards.

Edit.

Other peoples points

I too would like fire feeding without pot removal, maybe a 4" gap between pot and stove or a fuel chute.

lightweightish, anything up to 1lb, as a jetboil weighs 200g before pot or fuel at its lightest, it won't be a big ask for yours to be 500g.

For a quick brew I'd use a trangia.

Compactability, being as I said nice a big I'll say even on a treck you can always find things to pack inside a cooking pot, like a fuel bottle,mug, tea kit, so really it doesn't matter people take trangia windshields with them when wanted.

Stable, wide not high a la the firebox thing

 

[Andy BB]

Ultralight, flatpack but capable of taking all sizes of pots (using the cross-piece) with easy side feed of long pieces of wood? Simple - Ti Emberlit!
20,000 btu in a wood-burner - again with adjustable heads for any size pot - Vital stove.
Bullet-proof all-in-one stove with billy and fry-pan/lid/cup, with windshield you can use with either the alcohol burner or as a wood-stove - the Army Trangia.
Honey stoves and many similar variants.
Excellent stove/pan alcohol sets - civvy trangia sets - 25/27, Meta 50 or various clones. Optimus Trapper.

Then you start on the gas/liquid fuel stoves for serious cooking/snow melting duties.

Point I'm making is that what stove you choose - or choose to design - depends on what you want it to do! There are already many good ones out there covering most roles, and at very good prices. (and clones of the best ones at even better prices!) To come up with a new design, break into an already glutted market at a competitive price point and keep the clone copies at bay long enough to actually make a profit will be an interesting exercise!

 

[Paulm]

Bit of a newb with regard to stoves, but have been looking over the xmas break for a wood burning and trangia capable stove, as I like the idea of being able to use natural fuel when out and about or meths as backup or a quick boil.

I like the way the wood gas stoves collapse down small and pack into a billy with space for the trangia and some other bits and pieces, but worry about the stove actually being too efficient and hot to cook on, rather than just boiling liquids (might not be a problem in practice, don't know as haven't tried one). Also would prefer easier feeding of wood without removal of billy, and to be able to see more of the fire, just for pleasure/fun

The other one I have narrowed down to is the honey stove which achieves all of the things above and I think is what I will end up going for, although I am put off by the need to assemble it each time and the price premium for the ti version which I would prefer for less weight but which is just too much to justify.

I think the ideal would be a honey stove with hinged panels, in ti but at less of a price premium, then I would press the button and buy, but still dithering at the moment !

Cheers, Paul

 

[lostplanet]

WIP,

A new design I am not sure about although I do like the idea of some of the hinged wood burning stoves on offer. I expect the main problem will be, with the stoves that work particularly well, is being copied abroad for a fraction of the cost.

I have a honey stove which I have been playing with lately (hence my request for a replacement panel) Firstly trying to remember how to assemble the stove when it has been out of my mind for a while. If I used it more regularly it probably would be a lot easier to assemble, but I don't so its not to be honest, especially with cold wet hands and little light.

I took it out on the worse day of weather for a while to practice lighting the stove with wet kindling and birch bark. What I noticed was that in the dark (shadows of a head torch) and extreme wind that was poorly shielded by my attempt with a poncho is the top grate was quite hard to get in place whilst the stove was lighting. A proper wind sheild would have been so much help but I didnt have one.

being over the top of the stove to try and keep as much wind off as possible made it difficult to stoke and light from the side open panel. so having the top grate removed helped. this is also a bit fiddly when you want to assemble the stove with the bottom coal plate and a top grate at the same time.

First I used a bungee cord to compress the parts until it was sufficiently built to hold itself together. not so good for initial assembly.

Next My idea was to make a stainless clip that would aid assembly and can be used to stand a nato mug on. This is what I have come up with so far but is early days. the clip can act as a handle to so the stove can be moved if needed.

On this particular bad night the ground was very wet and seemed to be sucking a lot of the energy out of the young flames so to try and reassemble the stove and raise the coal grate would have been more hassle with wet cold hands already.
I did try some fair size sticks as a base plate in the end and it worked enough to get a brew on.



So I guess someting that can be very easily configurable maybe worth considering in your new design.

just going to sort pics out and more info.

I mainly use a nato mug on the honey stove with wood. I use a MSR pocket rocket with Gas can for other times.

I find that with the pins in place in anything but the highest option the handle on the mug hits the side panels.

It may be optimum height for boiling water but having the option to have any height I would prefer.

Also I use regular tent peg which measures 4.8mm which doesn't fit in the smaller holes. those holes being quite useful to make a quick mug/pot stand before i messed with the clip idea.

I think with a Bushcraft orientated stove you can get away with the product being a bit heavier and a bit bulkier than the backpacking crowd because its something that will get used and abused(stood on, sat on, kicked, dropped) and probably wouldnt weigh anymore than a couple of mars bars or extra bottle of whiskey scrfaters may carry anyway.


The stove needs to work effectively, be robust and fair value for money, afterall if it works well then I dont think many people mind paying the extra cost for a well designed and manufactured product. The honey stove is a good example of this.















To answer your questions from my point of view, occasional bush crafter/more wild camper in the UK mainly prefer autumn to winter times of year so generally wet and cold.

The current range will continue and I am considering a completely new design which would compliment what we already have in the portfolio but be specifically of interest to the bushcraft user.

So what key features and elements would you like to see in a bushcraft stove? I'll kick off some key aspects I've been thinking about over Xmas. (Sad I know)

Does material matter? Aluminium or Stainless. I would prefer stainless
Does final weight matter? Less than or more than a kilo not too much of an issue for me if the final product was more durable at the cost of a little extra weight.
Does size matter (Oooo darling!)? As small as possible or big as a Frontier Stove honey stove size works for me, with the added Hive is good but haven't needed to use mine yet.
What type of cooking would you like to do? In a pot/pan, on a grill, on a hot plate - mainly brews and reheating, sometimes an old frying pan around 10 inches diameter.
Ease of construction? Clip, hinged, separate parts - This is importatnt to me, ease of use, and simple to configure/build. not many small parts to lose.
Flexibilty with other stoves? Drop in Trangia or Coke Can Stove - not fussed as only use it with wood or take a gas stove instead. Don't think a one stove does all is the best option, multiple stoves don't cost that much really in the big scheme of things.
Flat pack or tubular? Ease of packing or fit inside some pot - I don't use a billy can so flat packing within reason is fine.
Free standing? In built ash tray to prevent scarring on campsites - free standing with maybe a built in scorch protector/wind shield if possible. has to be stable so doesn't dump your precious drink/food at the slightest knock.
Height? Does it need to be below a certain height or above - honey stove height works for me.
Woodgas or not? Adds a lot to manufacture and on small stoves seems no great advantage - not fussed.
Simplicity? What about a simple grill and nothing else. Can't get much simpler than that grill is a nice idea and serves lots of purpose, would like a pin system similar to idea above for quick height adjustment specially when everything is hot.

Good luck.

 

[lostplanet]

More to this, I have been using the Nato mug stainless lid that a member made here, for a good platform in which to light the tinder, maybe a case that could accommodate the essentials for lighting a fire and using the stove could also be a flat clean dry area for a firesteel to be used on.

 

[Mick721]

Titanium would be a great option but would it be too pricey? A larger opening to aid fuelling would be beneficial. I like an ash pan as it give me the option to use a stove in many more places.

 

[Nice65]

I do like the Honey, it has a certain romance, but the Emberlit (Ti or stainless options) is my favourite little wood stove. It can be easily fed, and doesn't leave a scar, even if lit on a wooden picnic table. So I'd lift the ash pan, no air holes, and make it easier to assemble/disassemble, and put decent size feed holes around the panels. Folding legs would be a huge bonus, but not so easy to flat pack I'd imagine.

The Ti Emberlit is approximately half the weight of the stainless version, might be worth looking at it as an option. Mighty pricy mind, but people will be happy to pay for a well designed stove that copes with everything. I've seen a 25ltr water container on an Emberlit. Not to boil, but to demonstrate it's strength.

 

[Squidders]

Ideas of mine:

Easy to fuel, space to put fuel in while the stove is really in use.
Made of material that will not react badly to use, probably titanium.
Easy to construct, not fiddly and demanding practice but something that pops into shape with cold hands.
Designed to fit inside or around pots or other cooking equipment so can be transported easily and give more benefit than a general stove alone would.
Designed to have a cool side so users have somewhere for pot handles to go that will not get too hot.
As a £5 drop in price for every idea used that was given by someone just trying to help.

 

[spiritwalker]

personally i have looked at the honey stove a few times as i like using twigs etc instead of carrying fuel, however i have never taken the plunge as assembling one each time i want a quick brew has put me off. I use the swiss volcano stove for simple brewing up or my ghillie kettle and for cooking i like the swiss army trangia as it doubles up as a camp fire billy. I would look to those two stoves for inspiration, i do however like the firebox nano thats appeared on the scene but have not seen in it in the flesh. The negatives of the stoves i have mentioned are ground scorch and without precaution they all do it a raised stove would be preferable.

 

[Fin]

You got it almost right with the Honey stove Bob. Here's my wish list:

1) Hinged Honey stove in slightly thicker (more robust) Ti with anti warp features as found on the current Emberlit.
2) Slotted front door panel in order to accept a four panel, hinged Hive expansion (create a real portable bbq).
3) Four panel, hinged Hive expansion can also be used as a stand alone Trangia or Evernew DX burner stand.
4) Top grills, shaped to fit both Honey and Hive (probably not Ti as it doesn't heat evenly enough to be used as a cooking surface).
5) Flat plates for Honey and Hive to serve two functions - ash catcher on the bottom and griddle on top.
6) Honey/ Hive grates and trangia inserts can remain as is, as can the useful holes/ slot arrangements.

Er...I think that's it. With this you'd cover all the bases from a day/ brew kit stove to a portable bbq/ contained campfire. Weight is always important and so is robustness (eliminate warping as much as you can). I, for one, won't mind paying for a versatile, light weight stove system that will last a lifetime. In short, think "the last stove you will ever need" whilst keeping to your light weight philosophy.

Good luck. Hats off for researching amongst your customers and I look forward to the product!

 

[The MAX]

Hey Bob,
First of all, I love my Honey Stove. Not too much to complain about. I have the latest version with the grill top.

I have similar things to say that have already been said, plus a couple of other things.

-It's a well known thing that the honey stove isn't the easiest thing to put together. I think a folding version would be a big improvement.
-I also find the honey stove a little too high, especially when in the 4 sided configuration. Seems unstable.
-Typically if I do take the larger version, everything fits where I want it... except the bottom piece. Would be good if this piece could fold to similar size as the sides.
-An all in one cook kit with the honey stove successor. You could offer a couple of different versions with varying pot/pan sizes. I'd think of something like a 1L pot with a frying pan that doubles as a cover, and a nesting stainless mug (similar to the GSI and Tatonka bottle cups) that can transport the wood burning stove and a meths burner. Pot should have a handle capable of suspending it over a fire if need be. Similar to zebra billys, or the popular cable mod.

Does material matter? Aluminium or Stainless. - I'd say stick with Al and Ti
Does final weight matter? Less than or more than a kilo - Lightweight similar to honey
Does size matter (Oooo darling!)? As small as possible or big as a Frontier Stove - packability is important!
What type of cooking would you like to do? In a pot/pan, on a grill, on a hot plate - mostly boiling water, with the occasional sausage on the grill for me
Ease of construction? Clip, hinged, separate parts - ease of setup! Hinged please!
Flexibilty with other stoves? Drop in Trangia or Coke Can Stove - use of a trangia as a backup or main fuel is a must!
Flat pack or tubular? Ease of packing or fit inside some pot - flat is good, but nice if it all fit in a pot
Free standing? In built ash tray to prevent scarring on campsites - free standing for sure, ash tray isn't a big concern of mine. These can be easily made with some heavy Al foil.
Height? Does it need to be below a certain height or above - as I said early the honey stove could be 1cm or so lower
Woodgas or not? Adds a lot to manufacture and on small stoves seems no great advantage - nah
Simplicity? What about a simple grill and nothing else. Can't get much simpler than that - Simple is great. wood and meths!

Hope some of what I said was helpful, and look forward to seeing your next creation!

 

[ADz-1983]

So is this going to be the elusively branded "Wilderness Stove"?

Its been mentioned in past and its logo is also on the back cover of the book you get with the Honey stove. I remember phoning up and asking what its about and saying its a bushcraft stove thats in development, but that was months ago so I'm assuming its been on hold.

I think everything that I would have said has already been mentioned. However I would just like to repeat the need for hinges or better non-hinged system as its a ball ache to put together, especially in cold.

My main wants..

1. Better way to put it together
2. More packable, ie make the bottom/top sections foldable
3. Ground protector so no/less scaring
4. Would be good if you could make a woodgas system that is more packable then the Wild Stove.

 

[lannyman8]

the honey is a very good stove but costs to much money for me, but i love the style of stove,as has been said a wood burnable fuel source with other options...

this is why i made a hobo stove, however, additions to make it more workable in difficult areas.
1. raise it off the ground, removable legs or fold out
2. an added internal flue to help keep soot down (think of a wood gas stove)
3. integral cooking pot (for the stove) maybe even a nesting pot system of 2 pots, 1 for water, 1 for the food
4. a way to move the stove when its hot
5. an adjustable height for the pots to stand on, for when you want to use meths and they need to be lower
6. thickish steel plate for cooking on, think of breads sausage bacon ect, which must fit into or on the base of the stove so it does not rattle about (rattles when im walking do my head in, its the DPM blood in my veins that does it )
7. a fuel feed door that can be opened and closed depending on wind and fuel type.
8. integral wind shield that slips over the stove, or pulls out in some way (like stacked sliding doors) and stores inside for transit.
9. every thing needs to be / fit inside the pot/pots and stove all nice and compact
10. there needs to be space when all fitted together ready to go for brew kit and meths stove and fuel inside ideally
11. a nice robust bad for it to live in so you dont get soot on your gear, but please no plastic crud, a nice canvas or thick cotton please.

errrrrrm, thats about it, so not much for you to think about.... oh and if you can just do that for 30 quid you will be doing us all a great favour...
now this stove would be bushcraft related probably not that heavy, but probably not for the ultra-light peeps either, and would take up some room, BUT would be a complete set ready to go.....

regards

chris.

 

[lostplanet]

Prototype "The Cell"

Been playing with a design today, very rough prototype, it may sew seeds to a better idea. Bob feel free to use the info/design ideas.

The basic shape is like the honey hexagon but a bit wider and a bit less depth. reason for this is component storage + other bits you may want to keep to hand when firing up. Also I like to put damp wood due to be burnt at the sides to help dry off.

The base acts as an ashtray and with coal grate in place the side panels can be pushed in between the two in the gap and held in place. The pots stays can be put pretty much anywhere in the panels at anytime.

The empty panel is left out intentionally to allow easy access to stoke or move things about and allows my much loved Nato mug to sit with the handle facing me at any height. The spare panel can be dropped in as needed.

The panel lock is the same shape and size a the pot stay and can be pushed through the base, panel and coal grate to secure the panel (maybe something needed to secure the adjacent panels to the locked ones) then the 90 degree end will have some type of clip to hold the windshield in place. this could be a simple U bend.

The wind shield would be made of something stiff enough to not fold and still be able to be kept inside the unit for storage. need to think more about that (There is a trick I have noticed on my A4 paper sheet holder that bends the paper into a stiff shape to keep it upright). windshield could also be moved back and forth by the sliding panel lock in and out.

other ideas are feet that act as panel lock that raise the unit a little and windshield support. I wonder if that is necessary when the coal grate has a gap between it and the base.

The pot stays could be used as tongs to move twigs and stick around.

Holes will be put in everything to encourage air draft like the honey stove does and allow pins or pot stays to be added.

I have no problem with anyone Using, adding or modifying the design so far. I am sure there are some engineering bogies waiting to popup on a metal version.















Obviously not very compact as compared to some but if it would fit at the bottom or inside of a PLCE side pouch or in the lid of a pack. extra storage space could be for tinder a lighter, firesteel.

main issues I can see is that the panels would need to be quite think to reduce warpage.

weight saving could be a combination of titanium and stainless.