Questions about Airguns

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Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
i found the best were either acupell pest control or prometheus pellets.

I'll agree with the accupells/powapells but I really dislike the prometheus - steel tip in a nylon skirt jobbie. At 600(ish) feet per second muzzle exit velocity, there have been reports of long strips of molten nylon becoming lodged in the barrel grooves - it takes a while to build up, but will destroy any accuracy you thought you had.
Logun are producing a lead-free air bullet which I think is quite good, expensive but repeatable results from my two boxes so far.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

combatblade1

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 1, 2007
303
0
"I won't have a Spydi"
Yeah i heard about rifling being clogged i must say i have never experienced it myself then i did clean my gun after every shoot, i also heard a cause of this to be people using WD40 to clean their barrels traces of WD40 being compressed at high temp stripping the skirts off the pellet it will also affect the seals of the gun.
 

Hunter_zero

Nomad
Jun 25, 2006
430
6
51
Wales
Im thinking of getting one with these specs any opinions:
AG1 Pioneer Air Rifle

Full size adult air rifle, break barrel spring power 500/550 fps available in .177 or .22.

£25

You get what you pay for and a £25 airgun will give you £25 worth of accuracy and £25 worth of power.

You would be best advised to save a little and buy a good rifle.
To put it another way, would you trust your life to a £5 climbing rope?

John
 

Hunter_zero

Nomad
Jun 25, 2006
430
6
51
Wales
So whats thew minimum i should be looking to spend?
Also how far could that one shoot the £25 one that is and could it be used for bunnies

Spend as much as you can.

Distance: as far as you can group in a .5" circle.

Power: I duno, you'll have to chronograph the rifle to find that out.

John
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Lodian,
Have a look through the reviews on Airgunbbs.com, those £25 popguns can be made to perform but not very well - they'll only leave you frustrated, out-of-pocket and unable to do any real hunting. Also on the same forum, if you join, post a thread asking if anyone in your area would mind you tagging along to learn the ropes of rabbit control.
Its not a case of how far can you shoot, it has to include accuracy; while good quality airrifles can take prey out to 45 yards or more, the cheaper end of the market will be measuring in feet rather than yards.
You owe the debt of conscience to your prey to dispatch it in the cleanest possible manner, all pest controllers strive for "One shot - one kill!"

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

combatblade1

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 1, 2007
303
0
"I won't have a Spydi"
Im thinking of getting one with these specs any opinions:
AG1 Pioneer Air Rifle

Full size adult air rifle, break barrel spring power 500/550 fps available in .177 or .22.

£25

£25 seems very cheap you could probably use it for paper and knock down targets but i wouldnt think you could dispatch game with it(although i could be wrong). One thing i found about spring air rifles is they play havoc with cheap optics. The recoil of some will knock zero out every shot you should look for a gun which offers a good scope rail preferably cushioned and look for a decent scope after all if you are trying to shoot through a substandard scope which wont hold zero a gun costing THOUSANDS will still miss or worse still wing quarry. Shooting quarry with an air rifle is a 1 shot 1 kill deal!
 
Phil, it's always a good idea to have a rifle serviced every so often.
Testing muzzle energy isn't hard but like most things not as easy as it sounds.
Pellet weight is a key factor in how much muzzle energy your rifle produces. The heaviest pellets should be used for the test. Temperature can effect velocity and in turn energy.
I have three chronographs here and each one will give a slightly different reading.
Your rifle was tested using the heaviest available ammo in the UK and the results were quite literally 11.9999643 ft-lbs at the time of testing.
So it's not really a matter of having to worry what pellet the police might use, if they ever tested a rifle. It's simple, use the heaviest.


John


heaviest ammo avalible for Precharged guns will give the highest power

its a real pain as Due to high power FAC airguns some real heavy pellets have been developed which though prety much usless in practical terms in normal Airguns will fire mainly .22 cal though its unlikly these would be used by the police it is possible

but Spring guns are more effecent with the lighter pellets

also any deformaty on a pellet can easily give a very false reading if you have a Chrono try it just give the skirt a tiny squease and fire you will get a large % drop
this is why pellets in pockets arnt a good idea


ATB

Duncan
 
Im thinking of getting one with these specs any opinions:
AG1 Pioneer Air Rifle

Full size adult air rifle, break barrel spring power 500/550 fps available in .177 or .22.

£25


The FPS for a gun is usless with out the pellet weight it was done with but at normal hunting weights say 14 grains in 22 thats 70 fps slow and on 8.4grn 0.177 thats 300 fps slow . Plus its probbably wit hvery light pellets to give a high reading

maybe its how fast you can chuck it :D

ATB

Duncan
 
Nov 14, 2005
124
0
47
Northiam, East Sussex
I'm no expert either, but a friend of mine has hunted with airrifles for some time and he's kinda got me into it...

I think this was mentioned above somewhere, but the 177 has a very flat trajectory and a much higher velocity, whereas the 22 actually travels in a arc and as far as I understand it requires more setting up and greater judgment of distance to target depending on how you zero your scope, BUT, and please correct me somebody (RapidBoy!) if I'm wrong, but the 22 packs a much bigger punch and I've heard (only heard!) that 177 due to its smaller impact and greater velocity often passes straight through a small soft target causing terrible wounds that might not be instantly fatal, meaning that the rabbit for example, might run off somewhere and die a painful death where you can't even get to it. This I believe (from the same source!) can be rectified somewhat from by the use of hollowpoint pellets.

If you look around you can often see tests where a 177 and a 22 have been shot in controlled conditions into the same large block of soap and you can clearly see what a difference the 22 makes, i.e. it has a final impact zone creating a large hole (compared to the pellet size) much like a real firearm does when it expends all its energy on impact, whereas the 177 travels much further through the soap in a straight tunnel and ends compacted in by the soap.

This is all from a guy I sit next to at work that I've become quite chummy with who hunts rabbits on a regular basis with a 22 with some success and I own an Airarms S310 which I am very pleased with, but very rarely get a chance to do much with.

I guess the key whatever you choose is that you need to be confident that when you take aim and pull the trigger that you are going to put down what you are aiming at and not just maim it or give the target a mortal wound that will prolong its suffering in some hole somewhere. This takes practice and confidence in your rifle and ihow well you've set it up.

Geoff
 
I'm no expert either, but a friend of mine has hunted with airrifles for some time and he's kinda got me into it...

I think this was mentioned above somewhere, but the 177 has a very flat trajectory and a much higher velocity, whereas the 22 actually travels in a arc and as far as I understand it requires more setting up and greater judgment of distance to target depending on how you zero your scope, BUT, and please correct me somebody (RapidBoy!) if I'm wrong, but the 22 packs a much bigger punch and I've heard (only heard!) that 177 due to its smaller impact and greater velocity often passes straight through a small soft target causing terrible wounds that might not be instantly fatal, meaning that the rabbit for example, might run off somewhere and die a painful death where you can't even get to it. This I believe (from the same source!) can be rectified somewhat from by the use of hollowpoint pellets.

If you look around you can often see tests where a 177 and a 22 have been shot in controlled conditions into the same large block of soap and you can clearly see what a difference the 22 makes, i.e. it has a final impact zone creating a large hole (compared to the pellet size) much like a real firearm does when it expends all its energy on impact, whereas the 177 travels much further through the soap in a straight tunnel and ends compacted in by the soap.

This is all from a guy I sit next to at work that I've become quite chummy with who hunts rabbits on a regular basis with a 22 with some success and I own an Airarms S310 which I am very pleased with, but very rarely get a chance to do much with.

I guess the key whatever you choose is that you need to be confident that when you take aim and pull the trigger that you are going to put down what you are aiming at and not just maim it or give the target a mortal wound that will prolong its suffering in some hole somewhere. This takes practice and confidence in your rifle and ihow well you've set it up.

Geoff

a 22 pellet and a 177 pellet start of with the same energy at the muzzle ie 12ft lbs

as they travel they slow down due to friction in the air and as they do they lose energy
the lighter 177 pellet will slow quicker so on impact at say 30yrds will have less energy
the difference isnt that great at normal hunting ranges

but the energy is concentrated in a smaller area so will penetrate further on 177 than a 22 ( assuming the same head shape ie domed and similer % mass )

and is any projectile passed throu teh target it will not have passed all its avalible energy into the target ( as its still moving it cannot have done) so over penetration could be a problem

However at 12 ft lbs your only sensible kill zone is a brain shot which in a rabbit (your bigger quarry) is 1" dia ish or 25mm if you compare the pellet sizes to this you will see either is large and will kill cleanly if you hit it. Its been said you only need 3ft lbs impact energy to kill a rabbit and a good round head 177 pellet retains this out to 100yrds from a 12ft lb start.

Knock down power is a myth ( the bad guy is only put thro a window 6 ft behind him from a 44 magnum to the chest in the movies )

close up yes a 177 is more likly to go thro than a 22 this i have found only in close qtr ratting on small rats or on head shot pigions which a 22 would go thro anyway

Conclusion (valid for sub 12ft lbs airguns only :D FAC ones is 22 cal)

Best option is 177 as its capable of a clean kill at more range than you can shoot it and because accuracy of shot placemnt is more important for this type of gun The 177 wins hands down because its far more forgiving for rangefinding at allranges (this is why its the cal of choice for FT )

for all genreral hunting use the most accurate pellet in yout gun this will more likly be a domed head i nthe 8.4 grain weight

if you do go ratting and do find a over penetration that is a problem try a flat head pellet


if you have 22 or want 22 its not a problem if your happy and can hit your target at teh end of the day thats what counts

:D :D

ATB

Duncan
 
As ballistics are part of my job, I feel moved to comment!!

I agree with most of what has been posted here and I would add the following:

The most important aspect of any hunting with any correctly zero'd rifle is the judgement of range.

The flatter the trajectory of the bullet/ pellet, the more forgiving are any errors in range calculation.

In a fixed power system (eg sub 12ft/lb air rifle) - the lighter and smaller the bullet/ pellet, the flatter the trajectory.

In a sub 12ft/lb air rifle the difference in "power" at the target end, at ranges of 30yds or less - ie typical ranges with this system, between .177, .20, .22 or .25 are neglible - depending on pellet weight and cross section (a light .177 pellet is flying faster than a heavy .25 pellet at 30 yds).

Air rifle manufacturing tolerances are tiny with regards to breech loading and barrel rifling. Therefore there is no such thing as an all round "good pellet" - your individual rifle will "like" a particular pellet and you have to discover which one it is (providing, of course, that the pellet has consistent manufacturing tolerances). By "like", I mean consistent grouping.

In the UK, typical quarry include Corvids, Rats, Pidgeons, Grey squirrels and (my favorite) Rabbits. A correctly placed shot with all calibres will result in a clean kill.

I would advise the newbie to go for .177 every time - for accuracy and pellet choice.

Newbies that buy a .22 - I would work out range strategies for hold over/ under (baiting at known ranges, marking ranges on a shoot etc) until you are comfortable with judging range, to the nearest 5 yds, out to 30 yds.

Incidentally, I use a Theoben MFR .20 (restricted pellet choice). My rifle "likes" H&N FTT out to 35 yds (11.3g domed pellet) and Bisley Superfields out to 30yds (10.8g dimpled pellet - less aerodynamically efficient - but has a dum dum "smack" at the target end - great for Rats and Squirrels).
 

Porcupine

Forager
Aug 24, 2005
230
0
54
Leek,The Netherlands
maybe oversimplified but what i understand is the following:

if you can hit a tiny target consistently small calibre is enough to kill the target ( .177)
if you cant hit a barndoor but still against all better advice want to hunt you use the .50 because IF it hits even a glancing blow wil be enough.

is this in broad lines correct?

(and nope, i dont even have an airgun)
 
M

mikehill

Guest
.50 :eek: That's some airgun :D
You will need to hit something around the size of a 50p piece regularly at 30 yds to kill humanely. Having said that nearly everyone will still get some "runners". .177 is easier to be accurate with as the pellet drops less. Some still swear by .22 though ...
Have a look at airgunbbs for loads of info :)
 

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