Permethrin - where do you buy it?

[C_Claycomb]

One reason for treating a hammock is if you are in an area where there are things that can/will bite through the fabric. Treatment isn't a good substitute for creating dual thickness with a gap, but it helps. Personally, I wouldn't bother with treating the hammock or a head net. If I was going to the far north with hordes of mosquitoes, or to the jungle, I would treat the hammock and its attached net, but otherwise I am more interested in repelling and killing ticks and chiggers/harvest mites (whose bites I find as bad or worse than mossies), and that means concentrating on socks, trousers, and shirts around the waist and arm holes.

I buy my treatment stuff from here:
http://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/p/2730/Travelproof-Mosquito-Net-Treatment-Kit
They have some other good products.

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

C_Claycomb is correct - the nasties can bite through material hence treating mosi nets and unless you are mega disciplined with regards to keeping your sleeping area net-secure 100% of the time (zipped up; tensioned correctly, not draped on you!) they WILL get in so in my boook 'death-on-contact' through chemical warfare is a part of the solution.

I looked into permethrine safety (reams of technical trials) some years back and decided that I would risk the extremely low chance of a problem (if used (reasonably) correctly) over the result of getting Lymes. (And now some other more recently identified tick borne infections!).

I've been treating my clothing and equipment with it for about 8 years now and I'm usually out in the green stuff 3 or 4 times a week.
Apart from the occasional howl at the moon my better half says that I'm no odder than I always was!

In addition to the aforementioned permethrine application to my C&E, clothing use and the other bug repellents that I use, whenever feasible I also avoid setting up a shelter site too close to game trails and any source of water or moisture.

I read an article that ticks can most often be found on and within 10 metres either side of a game trail, makes sense -that's where their food source is!

I read another which stated that mosi's will lay their eggs in even the smallest sources of h20 - rainwater filled deer print, rainwater caught in the crook of tree - and they look for a meal before they do!

All-in-all applying the stated measures is a natural part of my routine(s) and I don't fret about bugs when I'm out and about.

My rationale is that if I ever do get an infection I won't be thinking "If only I had......."

Yer pays yer money and takes yer chances

 

[dwardo]

One reason for treating a hammock is if you are in an area where there are things that can/will bite through the fabric. Treatment isn't a good substitute for creating dual thickness with a gap, but it helps. Personally, I wouldn't bother with treating the hammock or a head net. If I was going to the far north with hordes of mosquitoes, or to the jungle, I would treat the hammock and its attached net, but otherwise I am more interested in repelling and killing ticks and chiggers/harvest mites (whose bites I find as bad or worse than mossies), and that means concentrating on socks, trousers, and shirts around the waist and arm holes.

I buy my treatment stuff from here:
http://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/p/2730/Travelproof-Mosquito-Net-Treatment-Kit
They have some other good products.

Thanks Chris. Its West coast so hopefully the flying kind are limited to windless hours. I also agree when it comes to harvest mites, at least mozzies are confined to exposed skin or thin clothing, Mites get everywhere and itch like nothing else.

I will be silk hammock and underblanket with a think bag depending on weather so should be barrier enough for bleeders that are trying to bite through. Clothing will be my concentration.

 

[dwardo]

Aye Up,

C_Claycomb is correct - the nasties can bite through material hence treating mosi nets and unless you are mega disciplined with regards to keeping your sleeping area net-secure 100% of the time (zipped up; tensioned correctly, not draped on you!) they WILL get in so in my boook 'death-on-contact' through chemical warfare is a part of the solution.

I looked into permethrine safety (reams of technical trials) some years back and decided that I would risk the extremely low chance of a problem (if used (reasonably) correctly) over the result of getting Lymes. (And now some other more recently identified tick borne infections!).

I've been treating my clothing and equipment with it for about 8 years now and I'm usually out in the green stuff 3 or 4 times a week.
Apart from the occasional howl at the moon my better half says that I'm no odder than I always was!

In addition to the aforementioned permethrine application to my C&E, clothing use and the other bug repellents that I use, whenever feasible I also avoid setting up a shelter site too close to game trails and any source of water or moisture.

I read an article that ticks can most often be found on and within 10 metres either side of a game trail, makes sense -that's where their food source is!

I read another which stated that mosi's will lay their eggs in even the smallest sources of h20 - rainwater filled deer print, rainwater caught in the crook of tree - and they look for a meal before they do!

All-in-all applying the stated measures is a natural part of my routine(s) and I don't fret about bugs when I'm out and about.

My rationale is that if I ever do get an infection I won't be thinking "If only I had......."

Yer pays yer money and takes yer chances

Great attitude to the bugs and one I share. Why do all the interesting places have an abundance of bugs..

So what protection are you using on your skin? Not a huge fan of deet based stuff as i have marred or lost some nice equipment to it. I have tried skin so soft which is good for the midge but not so hot for mozzies.

I have found regular application and covering up the best bet but happy to hear some tips for someone out in it daily.

 

[Janne]

Bugs are a pat of Nature and the experience.
I have never been bitten through a net, as I keep it away from my body. I used to wear a hat with a net attached, plus thin gloves.

The mosquitoes and gnats get really, really bad in Norrland in Sweden, some years cattle and wild animals die. I found the traditional tar ointment the best and most efficient.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have been trying a picaridin based repellent for the last couple of years and have been happy with it so far. Main trial was in New Zealand against their sand flies, and it worked pretty well when it wasn't getting washed off (hands, fishing). It is meant not to eat plastic the way DEET does. It spilled in my checked luggage and although it lifted some dye from my tarp and transferred it to the stuff sack, it didn't appear to do any other harm.

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up dwardo,

OK dwardo - here is my counter bug regime

As I KNOW that I am more often than not going to end up moving through and often laying up at locations with ticks I have always worn a very thin, close fitting base layer - long sleeve vest and trousers. (Previously silk, currently Helikon Tex Level 1).
I tuck the ankles into my socks (Bridgedale Trekker) and I tuck the vest into the trousers.

I always 'blouse' the ankles of my outer (working layer) trousers (usually FjallRaven Barents) over my boot tops with an internal elastic drawcord.
I've extended the waist band of the trousers and the hem(s) of my (working layer) shirts so that I don't end up with my shirt half way up my back regardless of my (work or BC) activities.

I use a pair of the thin Jack Pyke surefit shooter gloves when I'm on the move or laid up observing.

I use a bush hat if I'm going through close woodland with low hanging branches i.e. birch/hawthorn etc - consider - ticks can come from above as well as below!

I use either a head-over or a Brit mil sweat rag around my neck.

Apart from washing my hands, arms, face and neck with Incognito soap (citronella) before I go out, I try to avoid direct application of any insect repellent directly on my skin. Over the years I have found that it doesn't last long once I start to sweat.

I tend to give a quick spray of (Incognito) repellent onto my clothing at the wrists, collar, waist, ankles and over whatever head wear I'm using depending on my activity intentions. Oh yes and the fly zip area! (A mate once found a tick burrowing into his family jewels and that has put the fear of God into me ever since! )

All my working layer clothing (inc head and hand wear) is lightly treated with permethrine and my ruck/shelter/bivy bag/maggot etc with a heavier dose.

As already stated, when I set up shelter for a protracted stay I apply the game trail and water source thought process.

After clearing the ground of debris there is a high chance of disturbing bugs so I wait a few minutes and watch before pitching a tarp/basher etc.

Since last year I've been using the incense repellent sticks (burn for about 45 mins) at brew stops and lately (since I started using a tarpee shelter) bunging one inside the shelter straight after setting it up and leaving it for about 20 minutes (towards a corner). (I used to waft a piece of smoking timber around previously).

If it warrants it (either as insulation or just for comfort) I fill one of those HD plastic emergency bivvy bags with (lots of) fern and tie off the opening really securely. This goes on top of the ground sheet and beneath the ins mat (thin ex Bundeswehr type).

Although I tend to lay out my groundsheet and insulation mat fairly soon after set up, I don't bring the GTX bivvy bag and doss bag out until I'm about to get in them.
Next day - after open-airing the latter two items I given them a good shake out, inspection, roll them back up and re-stow in my ruck.

It may seem a lot of effort to go to and there is still no guarantee that you won't get bitten - but if it is all a regular part of your routine it just becomes automatic.

You might ask - have I ever been (tick) bitten? -
Yes - sheep tick - arm pit - Northern Ireland out in the cuds - way before anyone considered the consequences and when a fag end or rubbing diesel! on them was the derigeur way of dealing with them.

Otherwise it's just been stings (my fault).

I hope that you find this useful.

 

[dwardo]

Aye Up dwardo,

OK dwardo - here is my counter bug regime

As I KNOW that I am more often than not going to end up moving through and often laying up at locations with ticks I have always worn a very thin, close fitting base layer - long sleeve vest and trousers. (Previously silk, currently Helikon Tex Level 1).
I tuck the ankles into my socks (Bridgedale Trekker) and I tuck the vest into the trousers.

I always 'blouse' the ankles of my outer (working layer) trousers (usually FjallRaven Barents) over my boot tops with an internal elastic drawcord.
I've extended the waist band of the trousers and the hem(s) of my (working layer) shirts so that I don't end up with my shirt half way up my back regardless of my (work or BC) activities.

I use a pair of the thin Jack Pyke surefit shooter gloves when I'm on the move or laid up observing.

I use a bush hat if I'm going through close woodland with low hanging branches i.e. birch/hawthorn etc - consider - ticks can come from above as well as below!

I use either a head-over or a Brit mil sweat rag around my neck.

Apart from washing my hands, arms, face and neck with Incognito soap (citronella) before I go out, I try to avoid direct application of any insect repellent directly on my skin. Over the years I have found that it doesn't last long once I start to sweat.

I tend to give a quick spray of (Incognito) repellent onto my clothing at the wrists, collar, waist, ankles and over whatever head wear I'm using depending on my activity intentions. Oh yes and the fly zip area! (A mate once found a tick burrowing into his family jewels and that has put the fear of God into me ever since! )

All my working layer clothing (inc head and hand wear) is lightly treated with permethrine and my ruck/shelter/bivy bag/maggot etc with a heavier dose.

As already stated, when I set up shelter for a protracted stay I apply the game trail and water source thought process.

After clearing the ground of debris there is a high chance of disturbing bugs so I wait a few minutes and watch before pitching a tarp/basher etc.

Since last year I've been using the incense repellent sticks (burn for about 45 mins) at brew stops and lately (since I started using a tarpee shelter) bunging one inside the shelter straight after setting it up and leaving it for about 20 minutes (towards a corner). (I used to waft a piece of smoking timber around previously).

If it warrants it (either as insulation or just for comfort) I fill one of those HD plastic emergency bivvy bags with (lots of) fern and tie off the opening really securely. This goes on top of the ground sheet and beneath the ins mat (thin ex Bundeswehr type).

Although I tend to lay out my groundsheet and insulation mat fairly soon after set up, I don't bring the GTX bivvy bag and doss bag out until I'm about to get in them.
Next day - after open-airing the latter two items I given them a good shake out, inspection, roll them back up and re-stow in my ruck.

It may seem a lot of effort to go to and there is still no guarantee that you won't get bitten - but if it is all a regular part of your routine it just becomes automatic.

You might ask - have I ever been (tick) bitten? -
Yes - sheep tick - arm pit - Northern Ireland out in the cuds - way before anyone considered the consequences and when a fag end or rubbing diesel! on them was the derigeur way of dealing with them.

Otherwise it's just been stings (my fault).

I hope that you find this useful.

Excellent info and just what I was after thanks. I have been lucky to have only had one tick bite. Plenty of the other lovely biting bleeders mind but as you seem to suggest a lot is planning and knowledge, backed up by chemical warfare.

 

[Janne]

Good post that one!

When I spent a lot of time in Nature, I used to wear my hair very short. Easy to check if any of the blood suckers munch on my scalp. Never put anything in my hair, as I got a nasty long lived exema after liberal applications over two weeks of the Swedish Army mozzie stuff.