Papua New Guinea native firemaking with string

[Galemys]

Most of the literature that I have found lists palm tinder coming from the subfamily Caryotoideae (Fishtail Palms). Arenga pinnataand Caryota mitisbeing the most common. Chamaerops ritchiana is used in Pakistan, Elaeis melanococca is used in Brazil, Caryota urens is used in Lakhimpur (India) and so on.

I found some smallish fish tail palms (Caryota mitis) for sale in a garden centre and took a look for the tinder part but what exactly is used as tinder from this species?
The base of the stems has some fibery bits (just like most kinds of palm) but not much. Some of the small stems had a blackish rash in the form of small spots that could be scraped off but it looked nothing like the fluffy ´lulut´-like material I was hoping for. Can the tinder bit only be found by cutting up pieces of the plant (I did not buy any, I was just testing them in the garden centre but cutting them would have raised even more eyebrows than scraping them...). Is there a layer in between the stems that I must look for just like Salang did with the other palm species? Or is it only found in larger specimens, the plants I saw were not much bigger than 4 feet.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

Tom,
The answer is no, you do not need to cut up the plant to get the tinder. I got a small hand full from scraping off the fluff from the base of just one leaf of a 2 meter tree. Many palms have hairs at the base of the leaves both on the inside and the outside. I've been testing various palms and so far all have worked.
A fun note is that I've started several fires using Caryota mitis tinder in my fire piston. I didn't prepare it with charcoal or anything, just right off of the tree! A more humorous note is that after collecting the small hand full of tinder off of a tree that is growing in a building on campus, the landscaping manager ran up. He was looking all around and so I spoke with him and asked if he was looking for somebody messing with the palms. He said yes, "I got a call that there was some guy without a shirt touching the palms." I laughed and told him what I was doing. He asked me why I had my shirt off, ha ha. What the person who called the security was trying to say was that I didn't have on a 'university' shirt, something that would identify me as an employee. He laughed and then helped me collect a bunch more
I took photos to show you this... I need to figure that part out.
Another note. If you use it in the fire piston you will find that you need to adjust your pressure so that the whole wad of tinder doesn't turn black! Instant combustion!
Caryota mitis is called the clumping fish tail palm here. It is the only Caryota that regularly offsets or grows in a clump. It is now one of my most favorite palms (after Acai palm
Ed

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

BOD and all,

O.K., I’ve been learning a lot about bamboo and have found some good info to help find out what the species of bamboo is that you got on your bamboo fire quest. Tom already listed this info but I'll repeat it: According to the plant names website: http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Frontpage.html
1. Schizostachyum jaculans = Buloh temiang
2. Schizostachyum blumei = Buluh tamiang
3. S. irratun/en = Bambu tamiyang
It turns out that one of the important parts of the bamboo to use to identify it is the culm sheath from the middle of the stalk. It also turns out that there is a bamboo expert there in Indonesia who may be willing to identify it for us (request in process).
If you are at all interested in learning more about bamboo I recommend an excellent website here: http://bamboo-identification.co.uk/index.html
It has detailed information on what is necessary to identify species and also gives links to detailed descriptions.
I’ve come to the preliminary conclusion that a few of the Schizostachyum species will work to make fire and it isn’t just one species alone. Possibly both S. jaculans and S. blumei will work.
To answer your question as to what you will need to photograph or collect for identification:
• An entire plant showing how the stalks stand/bend with a reference to size (person) if possible. We need to see how the stalks stand and or droop.
• Photographs of the nodes or rings along the stalk showing the branches coming out along with any buds etc. Include a ruler for size reference. We need to see how many branches come out of each node and what the branches look like as far as branching and length.
• Close ups of _culm sheaths_ from the middle section of the stalk. Remove one and lay it flat with a ruler next to it. Take pictures of the auricles and ligules - there are hairs and protrusions on these that are used to identify the species. I’m told that people can identify species using just a culm sheath! For a definition of what an auricle is see: Morphology>Components.. http://bamboo-identification.co.uk/html/leaves.html
• Measurements of the internodes. Lengths, cross section showing wall thickness (include ruler). Schizostachyum are thin walled bamboo.
• A branch with leaves and close ups of the leaves showing hairs, powder etc.
Now I don’t know how much you love photography and this may seem a lot so it’s just an “if you want to” list.
Also, if you can find out other uses for the same bamboo it could quickly confirm our findings. I think both S. jaculans and S. blumei are used for making blowguns. One species has longer culms so they only need one internode while the other is shorter so they use two stuck together.
Unfortunately Schizostachyum is rare in cultivation here in the U.S.A. I only found one vendor in Florida.
Here is a description for jaculans.
Schizostachyum jaculans
HABIT Perennial; caespitose. Rhizomes short; pachymorph. Culms 600–700 cm long; 20–35 mm diam.; woody. Culm-internodes terete; thin-walled; 50–80(–125) cm long; distally pruinose. Lateral branches dendroid. Branch complement many. Culm-sheaths 15–30 cm long; pubescent; with erect hairs; with tawny hairs; truncate at apex; auriculate; with 1 mm high auricles; setose on shoulders; shoulders with 8–12 mm long hairs. Culm-sheath ligule 2 mm high; ciliate. Culm-sheath blade linear; reflexed; 10–25 cm long; 7–18 mm wide. Leaf-sheath oral hairs scanty; 5–10 mm long. Leaf-sheath auricles falcate. Ligule an eciliate membrane. Leaf-blade base with a brief petiole-like connection to sheath; petiole 0.3–0.7 cm long. Leaf-blades lanceolate; 12–30 cm long; 12–50 mm wide. Leaf-blade surface pubescent; hairy abaxially.
Over and out,
Ed

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

Hi Tom and all,
I just posted a photo for you in the Gallery.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg128/depth-of-field/Palm%20tinder/CaryotamitisTinder.jpg
Ed

 

[BOD]

Hi Tom and all,
I just posted a photo for you in the Gallery.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg128/depth-of-field/Palm tinder/CaryotamitisTinder.jpg
Ed

Ed

You are a gem! That bamboo id stuff will help a lot. When I get organised, that is.

Tom, the lulut shown is the same stuff that is found between the layers but now is exposed as the stalk and leaves expand outward. It prbably has more impurities though but as it is a greenhouse or garden palm will be nice and dry unlike a jungle palm. I'm not sure that it would be easy to get from an aping palm compared to a caryota.

Ed Are you able to hazard a guess at the palm in the photos I posted?

Ash

 

[Galemys]

Hi Tom and all,
I just posted a photo for you in the Gallery.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg128/depth-of-field/Palm tinder/CaryotamitisTinder.jpg
Ed

Thank's for posting that picture Ed, that makes things a lot clearer!
The plants I saw at the garden centre where still green at their base unlike the one in your picture but I now know where to look.

I will check out the Bamboo-identification link later (for some reason my boss seems to think I have work to do here…)

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

I had to laugh when I went to the furniture supply warehouse and the sales lady asked me what I wanted the rattan for. I told her to make a thong......boy did she think that was funny. It turns out that one of her biggest cane buyers uses them to make S&M canes. Oh, she also said that most of them are sold to the UK! haha Yeah, I knew something was up over there when I watched Benny Hill! Just kidding guys/gals my blood comes from England so it's no stab at anyone, just the fact that the site it bushcraftUK.

After that, I do have something that is helpfull.
I've uploaded a video of me making an ember using the fire thong method.
After procuring the rattan (my friend Ivan got it from the floral design section of a craft store, they were sold to go along with dried flowers and stuff) the main obstacle was figuring out what to put under the board to catch the embers that fell. It turned out in my initial testing that the thong would catch and pull up or out whatever I put beneath the split stick. I eventually turned on my thinking cap and grabbed a bunch of coconut coir that I had for lining a hanging basket (planter). It worked well as the thong did not catch. Of course the ember doesn't really fall, it builds up in the crack, sort of like the fire saw method. So, that being said, here's the link.

http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/...on=view&current=FireThong-RattanCedar-Ed4.flv

Oh, I just remembered. The very first time I got the fire thong to work was using rattan from a BASKET made of rattan that my friend Ivan brought over to experiment with. This may be an easier way to obtain the stuff.
Hope this helps in some way,

Ed - searching for a nodule of pyrite/marcasite

 

[Stuart]

excellet video Ed! :You_Rock_

any ideas how the malasiyan technique works?

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

This thread has been all over from fire thong to bamboo percussion to plant taxonomy!
How about a little Kung Fu Firepiston?
Well I just wanted to show you the Caryota mitis tinder in one of my small firepistons.
I think I'll edit in some sound effects later on but you'll get why I call it Kung Fu when you watch it. Now I did have a couple of instances where the tinder didn't keep burning so if it doesn't keep burning give it another try. Enjoy
Ed
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/...action=view&current=Firepiston-Palmtinder.flv

 

[Galemys]

I've uploaded a video of me making an ember using the fire thong method.
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/...on=view&current=FireThong-RattanCedar-Ed4.flv

Very clear video Ed, thank´s again, the other ones are not half bad as well...
For some reason the fire saw video won´t upload while I can watch the others without problem.

Fire thong
I just tried the fire thong again with my own bought furniture rattan but it is way too brittle (it seems flexible enough but just won´t stand the abuse of the ´thonging´, maybe it is too thin). I´m gonna collect the Bornean rattan that BOD had found for me soon so I will have better stuff to try it with.

Bamboo spark
The Schizostachyum sp. of bamboo are also used for making flutes and the like because of their thinwalled and straight stems. S. jaculans was used for making blowpipes, presumably because of its relatively long straight internodes. You may find a supplier of these species of bamboo if you search for bamboo flute making material.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[BOD]

Tom,

These photos might be clearer.

While I was looking for a para rubber sapling I came across a Caryota mitis.

As you can see Ed is correct, at certain times quite good quantities of the lulut are ready to collect without damaging the plant or requiring drying. If the palm has some sunlight on it.

I took some and tried it with a firesteel and it lit after a few scrapes. Not sure that it would go in a fire piston till dried a bit more.

Any residue left in the piston barrel or on the gasket Ed?

Ash

 

[BOD]

These are photographs of two of the most likely species S. iraten and S.jaculans with S. iraten being the favourite for now. I also include the one photo of the temiang clump taken in poor conditions.

I fear that these two species are not easily found in peninsular Malaya unlike Borneo. What I hope to do is become familiar with the main S. species so that I pick an S spp, out in the forest amid all the other types and harvest some bamboo for experimentation. I will try other species as well but will focus on S. spp.

You may recall that Jamit was selecting some and discarding other culms while I merrily collected any I could see. Subsequently I noticed that some sections had much better spark generation that others. Some 19th century sources also said that the correct well seasoned wood was critical.

Have you heard of “tabashir” or”tabasheer”? I came across it in some alternative medicine sites. It is an ingredient in Ayurvedic medicine. It is an opaline stone/deposits found on some bamboos especially near the internodes. It is a response to stress. Apparently there is more in the female bamboo esp. S.iraten. It is siliceous up to 75% with other components. It has been traded for hundreds of years if not longer. This may be what he was looking for. Is it correct that bamboos are male and female?

More research on this would be welcome, if anyone could help. There are no experts here so please feel free to offer suggestions.

The bamboos

S. iraten

The REAL Fire Bamboo in the forest

S.jaculans

 

[Ed4sobrevivencia]

You may recall that Jamit was selecting some and discarding other culms while I merrily collected any I could see. Subsequently I noticed that some sections had much better spark generation that others. Some 19th century sources also said that the correct well seasoned wood was critical.

Friends,

In 'Fire-making Apparatus in the United States National Museum' by Hough, he wrote "The bamboo selected and from which the specimens in the United States National Museum are made has a rough surface layer feeling like fine sandpaper. This coating is in the form of a flinty layer about one-half millimeter thick which is chipped away in small bits under the stroke of the china. The material of the layer is probably a combination of silica with some organic substance rendering it capable of taking up the force of the blow and converting it into heat sufficient to ignite tinder."
Hough earlier wrote in 'Fire as an Agent in Human Culture', "The writer finds no difficulty in making fire by this method." I have to assume that he was referring to himself because his references make no statements as to attempting it themselves. He followed with, "Observations on the specimens in the United States National Museum show that a particular kind of bamboo having a hispid siliceous coating is used. The Filipinos call this bamboo buyo." I have found a bamboo called buho or bulo but not buyo which is their name for bettle nut stuff. This Filipino buho is Schizostachyum lumampao and it has long internodes and thin walled culms. Hough follows with a statement about the tinder which someone at Kew identified as "scurf down of a species of Caryota palm". We know from other accounts that this palm is Caryota mitis.

Maybe Jamit was choosing culms with the sandpaper feel.

On further note, I need to make a correction to an earlier statement regarding culms and silica content. I said that the base of a culm matures first. This is true. I then said that because it matures first and holds the weight and torque of the entire culm it is the strongest. This is also probably true BUT, I made the assumption that this would also be the area of highest silica content and this is not true according to 'The Anatomy of Bamboo Culms' by Walter Liese. You can read it using Google Book Search; page 88. I quote, "Silica is a major constituent of the epidermis with values between 1.5% (Bambusa vulgaris) and 6.4% (Schizostachyum lumampao). It consists of small crystals of silicon dioxide and is mainly localized in the shorter epidermal cells..... The silica content increases towards the upper culm parts." So, this is something else to think about when searching for strike-a-light culms.
I hope this helps with our quest to educate ourselves about bamboo

I also should point out that there is a phenomena called triboluminescence which is very important to know about when talking about getting sparks via rubbing or striking two rocks together. Triboluminescence is an optical phenomenon in which light is generated via the breaking of asymmetrical bonds in a crystal when that material is scratched. Although it is a great excuse to get your girlfriend into a dark closet, it won't start a camp fire.

Ed

 

[Galemys]

Don't count of Schizostachyum lima yet:

In contrast to mr Hough, the French Docteur Roussel reckons that the Philippinean species is S. lima, not lumampao.
Hough states the vernacular name as "buyo", a tagalog name for S. lumampao, a species that is restricted to the Philippines. Roussel proposes S. lima because of its wider distribution (Borneo, the Philippines, the Moluccan islands, New Guinea) which would account for the bamboo percussion method being used in these locations outside of the Phillippines. Although the tagalog name of this species is "anos", it is called "buho" in another Philippinean language (panay bisaya), a close match with Hough's "buyo". Furthermore, Roussel states that the epitheton "lima" is derived from the latin for limestone, most probably because of the rough surface of this species, which was used for polishing bronze.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Stuart]

I'm sitting in a hostel in Oxford after spending the day examining dozens of firethong sets collected from all over the world at the Pitt Rivers museum (the best museum on earth!)

all the sets I examined used rattan which had been split in half, rather than whole rattan, and most had either toggles or the excess rattan had been coiled up to make hand holds, the working length was surprisingly short, so short and rapid strokes seems to be the technique.

I had always assumed that the rattan should be as close the apex of the split as possible, but some of the sets I examined that had been used multiple times showed grooves one after the other the whole length of the split, two embers seem to form below each edge rather than one ember in the apex.

the orientation of the thong in relation to the split was interesting, the rattan passes beneath the stick with the split above it so you are looking down on it like a V:


..........\........../
...........\......../
------------\------/--------------
.............\..../
...............\ /
................II
................II
................II


Ignore the dots they are just to keep the spacing, the ---------- is the rattan the \ / is the split, looking down on it from above.

the rattan does not pass actually between the V sides as shown in many books.

Another set up that seems popular is a chunk of wood with the large depression carved almost all the way though one side, and a hole poked though. The thong is strung beneath over the hole, and the ember collects in the depression. I'm guessing that the thong is bedded in and then the hole is poked though.

BOD do you remember the wood Jamit used for the board of his handrill that time in Brunei? well that wood seems to be a popular choice for the fire thong base, next time you see him could you see if you can find out what it was?

speaking of which, remember when I said I suspected Jamit was using a hand drill spindle that was far too thick when he was trying to demonstrate the traditional Iban handdrill technique the way he had seen his father perform it? well I was wrong, I saw an original Iban hand drill at pitt rivers today and it was identical, the thickest handrill spindle I have ever seen, they must have had some amazing technique or else were just built like the incredible hulk!

 

[BOD]

Stuart,

What you describe looks identical to the sets that The Smithsonian has which Ed sent scans of to Tom and me. A pebble was edged in the split. Maybe you could post the picture ED?

I will ask and get a sample of hearthboard for you when I am there next. Shall I pass it to Condex to send to you? I hope to stay several days at the longhouse to do all that is required. I thought that a thicker spindle was advised to minimise friction and blisters? I read that somewhere.

Every time I've doubted something Jamit said or did I've been proven wrong in the past! Welcome to the club. When Kew said Schizostachyum temiang was at 910m hills in Temburong, Jamit showed me that it was at 60m by the river. The list goes on.

Now here is a firethong set that has baffled me for months. It is in the Orang Asli museum in Gombak. Any guesses how it might work? There is no hole on top and I cant see the other side.

What did LSTMH say?

 

[Stuart]

I will ask and get a sample of hearthboard for you when I am there next. Shall I pass it to Condex to send to you?

need to get an actual hearth board, I have a chunk of it from Jamits handrill set, just need to know what wood it is.

Now here is a firethong set that has baffled me for months. It is in the Orang Asli museum in Gombak. Any guesses how it might work? There is no hole on top and I cant see the other side.

didnt see any like that at pitt rivers, cant see how that would work at all, are you sure its not a display put together by somone who isnt entirly familiar with the technique?

 

[BOD]

Okay.
I will get you the native name for the tree and photograph it from various perspectives and give you GPS coordinates so you can find it on your own or blaze it with the "i was here" mark.

I did think that the display of the fire thong might be by an ignorant curator. However, the musuem is in a Orang Asli community and I thought that an old timer would probably have put them right in that case. Another possibility is that the apparatus is correct but that it hasn't been used before display.

I guess I should ask when I pass there next.

 

[BOD]

Here are photos of the fire bamboo site. The same as the Mora knife review. Leaf pics are top and underside. All are the same species I think.

The slope makes it hard work as the dried leaves are slippery. Also good, if not prime,cobra country.

I include start of the walk pictures as well as the bamboo grove.

There is a also a picture of Salang during the BCUK trip in Borneo with a long internodal bamboo which is used for cooking. It is temiang.

How do you detach a culm sheath without it cracking??

 

[BOD]

I found a clear reference to the method in a book published last year

"The Airmen and the Hedhunters" by Judith Heimann

http://www.amazon.com/Airmen-Headhunters-Soldiers-Tribesmen-Unlikeliest/dp/0151014345

A fascinating read about a bomber shot down over Borneo and the crew's being found by headhunters who decide to return to their traditional practices.

The bamboo spark reference was an unexpected bonus as was the discovery that my former lecturer was part of the rescue mission!


Stuart,

Do you remember the bamboo we used to cook in Malaysia? The internodes were long as I remember but how long? A metre? My camera batteries went flat so no foto record.

It might be a species of Schizostachyum

Ash