Its raining Deer...

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Jul 30, 2012
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westmidlands
I don't know. I know that usually it's gralloched pretty much where it falls though, so that clears out the gut (and a lot of the weight)

I think we need someone among those who actually stalks to join the thread.

M
It was posted with a Mr santa in mind.

I suppose a field dressing goes along way to getting the blood out of the carcass robson, once congealed its not going to come out. Blood as well goes off quickly, its why those from the hotter parts of the world are of the fashion of bleeding live animals and getting as much blood from the carcass that they can.
 
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Janne

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Does not the adrenaline of an unclean kill give the meat a tang too, as well as if the carcass is not bled professionally ?
If the animal is stressed, the meat is tough, so needs to be relaxed/hung. Stressed by dog pursuit, or a wound and sunseqvent pursuit by dogs or humans.
I have shot deer and moose both 'with dog' and 'with stealth'.
Vast difference in meat taste and consistency.

Bleeding is important too. You can not hung for more than day or two if unbled.
Plus, when you cook it, you get 'bleeding arteries and veins', which is unappetizing.

I have blead animals 'properly' hours after the kill. A good custom is to do a field bleed ( hang up in rerar legs, cut off head and front lower part of legs and hang for 30 minutes ( the time it takes to dress).

At home, hang up for at least a day. Then butcher.
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
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Greensand Ridge
If you can get to them :rolleyes:

I know ghillies, and I know hunters, and I know beaters, and they all complain at times about the long heft out with the carcase. Thing is that our country is very up and down, we don't really do much flat, and much of the up is rather inaccessible, and the deer make good use of it. Most of the older shoots used to take in garrons (hardy hill ponies) to help, but who has garrons nowadays ? so few folks keep horses at all.
garron5.jpg

They're not supposed to shoot them and just leave them on the hillsides, they're supposed to retrieve (partly to make sure the beast is decently dead) and everything is governed by 'sporting' laws, etc.,
Imagine dragging that carcase out by manpower....ask Neil or Mirage about just how much effort that is.

I know a landowner who was delighted to let an Italian shoot have at it in his estate for a week. He thought they'd redd out the deer that were cropping a new plantation. Nope. Instead they shot every wee bird in the place, from the robins to the blackbirds :(
Cultural differences abound.

While we still had wolves running free in the UK we still had much of the island forested. Good arable land was usually along river valleys, water meadows and the like. In came the Industrial Revolution and down came the forests,
Now we're trying to re-establish them where we can, but apart from folks who don't actually live on the land, most aren't terribly keen to see wolf packs back here.
We live on islands, busy islands, and predators are always going to be on a sticky wicket here.

No doubting it though, there are too many deer. I live in what is now suburbia, but we have a lot of woodlands around us still, and a lot of leafy paths, and we have a problem with deer. Never mind the greenfly munching your garden, the deer are happily working their way around, and the reality of traffic issues leaves horrified children and parents as something they see as cute is shattered into a gory mess. Two fawns and a doe last year at the end of the street, lot of tears and upset.
In a society that buys it's meat mostly from the supermarket now, deer aren't seen as food.
If put into packets and sold like beef though, it still doesn't sell very well I'm told. Folks think it'll taste weird, while we know the reality is that gamey is just old meat hung too long and that good fresh venison is just tasty meat (I have friends who supply my freezer for my husband)

How do they know the numbers ? I haven't a clue :)
I know that medieval records are not terribly reliable as an estimate outside of their own area. I know that driven hunts were often total overkill though, but the nobility weren't really much on restraint, just showing off, and rules claiming and enforcing hunting areas as no-go for everyone else.....especially after Rufus.
"Decently dead" is a turn of phrase I'm going remember and use!

As for dragging deer off the Hill I've done it before FCS gave Rangers quad bikes and to be honest I was young and enthusiastic enough to view the pain as a badge of honour and something that seemed wholly appropriate to endure by way of 'payment' for the life just taken.

K
 
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Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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Himself and I were talking about this just a fortnight past.
We have played, walked, climbed, camped on the hills, moors and woods all our lives, and it's only this past twenty years that we're really aware of ticks in any numbers. I have a horrendous reaction to insect bites, and I have always been aware of anything that bites because of that. Until recently only the midgies and clegs were ever a problem.

Himself came back from a jaunt a few years ago and he'd been inundated with keds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoptena_cervi
He'd never ever seen them in such numbers either.

Thing is though that we're pretty sure that his earliest childhood predated the use of organophospates in Scottish agriculture, and even then he didn't see the number of ticks and keds that we do now. Our parents were outdoors folks too, and they only ever mentioned the midgies and the clegs too.

So, something changed, but what ?
 
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Janne

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More vector animals?

Warmer climate during winter so more survive?

Is there research of how large % of ticks carry Borrelia in UK?

In Sweden, the % is in increase, and the virus has been spreading since the 70'.
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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Okay, so the lymes disease is one of the Borrelias, but it's only transmitted by the sheep tick, and it has to be on you for at least 36 hours to give you the disease....well according to Wikipedia :dunno:

So, check daily, especially for the tiniest ones, and avoid sheep and areas they've been.

Incidentally, Agafia, the lady who lives in remote Russian woodlands seems to be immune to Lymes disease having been bitten by ticks all her life.
 
Jul 30, 2012
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westmidlands
How about you built deer fences on a scale like jusassic park, hurded the deer towards them, through a hole in the fence to a holding area. When you get them all calmed down after a few days you could introduce feeders like cattle stalls, then when the deer least expect it, you electroclamp there heads and wallop, cut there heads off! There is an untapped resource there you could make millions from, all you would have to own would be the killing zone, i'm sure land owners would be glad to get rid of the pests too. The meat would be relaxed, hygenic and fresh. None of this carting it around stuff, a frames etc. I am not joking either by the way.
 
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Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Okay, so the lymes disease is one of the Borrelias, but it's only transmitted by the sheep tick, and it has to be on you for at least 36 hours to give you the disease....well according to Wikipedia :dunno:

So, check daily, especially for the tiniest ones, and avoid sheep and areas they've been.

Incidentally, Agafia, the lady who lives in remote Russian woodlands seems to be immune to Lymes disease having been bitten by ticks all her life.

Very few sheep ( compared to UK ) on mainland Sweden, but the Borrelia is basically everywhere today. Deer is thought to be the vector.
I think there are a couple of Borrelias that give Lyme Disease.
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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How about you built deer fences on a scale like jusassic park, hurded the deer towards them, through a hole in the fence to a holding area. When you get them all calmed down after a few days you could introduce feeders like cattle stalls, then when the deer least expect it, you electroclamp there heads and wallop, cut there heads off! There is an untapped resource there you could make millions from, all you would have to own would be the killing zone, i'm sure land owners would be glad to get rid of the pests too. The meat would be relaxed, hygenic and fresh. None of this carting it around stuff, a frames etc. I am not joking either by the way.

Several deer species are ‘farmed’ all across Europe. Fed, watered, Vet inspected and treated.
The farms I know of harvest them by shooting.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Trust me, the gamey taste is hanging too long and not chilled properly. Pheasants used to be hung until the maggots ate through the neck. .....

......Folks don't camp out to hunt either, they go back to the lodge, etc., roughing it through the day is one thing, but the guns socialise in the even.....
We don’t age deer. AT ALL. We eat it as soon as it’s cut up, usually the same day (at least the first meal from it and the rest goes straight into the freezer) Any ,eat can “go off,” but if it’s diet has been roughage, it tastes gamey (something different than being “off.” If not, it tastes succulent.

People rarely if ever actually hunt from horseback here either. The horses are used in a pack train with the hunters and cargo going up to the pre-set camps. They like to socialize at night also. The outfitters do the cooking, and cleanup while the paying guests assist as they have the ability before settling in for card games usually. Mind, I’m not talked no about a spartan camp. I’m talking about full wall tents with separate mess tents and stoves. The horses will be used to retrieve deer, elk, or whatever if a hunter’s successful. Then the whole pack train will be saddled to go back down from camp. That’s quite a bit different from here in the South. Here we usually have t for a weekend at a time and the camp is indeed a bit less luxurious (we don’t have the outfitters to organize it and do the heavy lifting) and we usually drive to the campsite in a pick-up. In both cases the point is often as much about getting into the woods for an extended period as it is about killing deer. Farmers on the other hand usually have a shooting stand set up within 5 minute walk from their back door.

Does not the adrenaline of an unclean kill give the meat a tang too, as well as if the carcass is not bled professionally ?
I’ve heard people say that but most of my first kills (here in th South) were in front of the dogs and I never noticed it. As RV said bleeding isn’t something we deliberately do although it obviously bleeds somewhat while hanging for skinning and quartering. I have noticed a definite degradation in taste if somebody punctures th bladder while gutting it though.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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1,114
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Florida
Himself and I were talking about this just a fortnight past.
We have played, walked, climbed, camped on the hills, moors and woods all our lives, and it's only this past twenty years that we're really aware of ticks in any numbers. I have a horrendous reaction to insect bites, and I have always been aware of anything that bites because of that. Until recently only the midgies and clegs were ever a problem.

Himself came back from a jaunt a few years ago and he'd been inundated with keds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoptena_cervi
He'd never ever seen them in such numbers either.

Thing is though that we're pretty sure that his earliest childhood predated the use of organophospates in Scottish agriculture, and even then he didn't see the number of ticks and keds that we do now. Our parents were outdoors folks too, and they only ever mentioned the midgies and the clegs too.

So, something changed, but what ?
Possibly climate change. As yet to slight for you to notice but enough to increase tick populations?
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
38,998
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S. Lanarkshire
Mind those sporting laws ? well venison for sale has to pass health inspections, just like the sheep, pigs and cattle, and I think the Game Dealers still have something to do with it all too.
Deer stalking is a 'sport', not just an active cull and meat source.
Very few sheep ( compared to UK ) on mainland Sweden, but the Borrelia is basically everywhere today. Deer is thought to be the vector.
I think there are a couple of Borrelias that give Lyme Disease.

Can you find a link to that please ? something relevant to the UK, not Scandinavia/ Europe or North America. All I can find is that it's Borellia bugdorfori and that it's the nymphs that are the most common source of the infection, and that it doesn't happen instantly, but needs at least 24 hours and more likely 36 to 48.
Fair reckoning puts it at 2 to 3,000 new cases every year (though Lyme disease action claims many more just aren't reported :dunno: I confess I'm always a tad wary of focus groups who raise funds to pay their salaries)
Sheep ticks are apparently the vector here. Sheep Tick, Ixodes ricinus, also known as the Wood Tick or Castor Bean Tick.
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
38,998
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S. Lanarkshire
Possibly climate change. As yet to slight for you to notice but enough to increase tick populations?

I'm actually wondering if it's something to do with the lack of bird predators of the blighters. Moorland bird numbers have fallen since the fifties, and tick numbers have risen, even more so after the ban on organophosphates in sheep dips.
 
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Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
38,998
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Several deer species are ‘farmed’ all across Europe. Fed, watered, Vet inspected and treated.
The farms I know of harvest them by shooting.

We have deer farms here too. I believe the slaughtering is done the same way as they do sheep.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,998
4,650
S. Lanarkshire
How about you built deer fences on a scale like jusassic park, hurded the deer towards them, through a hole in the fence to a holding area. When you get them all calmed down after a few days you could introduce feeders like cattle stalls, then when the deer least expect it, you electroclamp there heads and wallop, cut there heads off! There is an untapped resource there you could make millions from, all you would have to own would be the killing zone, i'm sure land owners would be glad to get rid of the pests too. The meat would be relaxed, hygenic and fresh. None of this carting it around stuff, a frames etc. I am not joking either by the way.

A fair number of the landowners are happy to charge paying guns a lot for a days stalking. Those Victorian and Edwardian lodges are expensive to maintain.
It's the sport thing again.
 

Janne

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borrelia

The interesting is that there are tens of Borrelia diseases, and many Lyme disease ‘versions’

Click on the Ixodes, and check out the host animals.
Your dog can be the one that brings the tick mama that gives you a Borelliosis.....

It is not easy to find stuff online ‘ British Isles only’ relevance, as most stuff is spread over large geographic areas.
Your problem is shared!

In Sweden the tick/Lyme Disease problem is very well researched, as huge portions of the population spend a lot of time enjoying Mother Nature, and lots of people got it in the past when it started spreading. Dr’ have had clear guidelines for more than a decade how to treat suspected and confirmed Borreliosis, including Lyme d.

Same with the deer problem. Increased population, large number of traffic accidents.
Solution?
Increase the number of hunting licenses, keep a goid record of number if animals, adjust the number of licenses.
 
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Janne

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Reading, I see that it is the B. burgdorferi, B. afzelii, B. garinii that cause problems in humans.

Makes you want to stay at home and crack open that can of Magnolia wall paint!
:)
 

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