Hmm, I wonder where I'd stand in that being neither protestant nor catholic, nor indeed, christian?
Hunting Weapons
- Thread starter SMOKOE
- Start date
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Not everyone was a ‘freeman’ back when this law was enacted. To be a freeman you had to be of a guild or trade, to have served seven years as an apprentice to a freeman, to be able to vote, own property, pay taxes, be male. Or be the son of a freeman.
It’s hard to pin down who was a freeman and who wasn’t however “By the year 1430 only owners of freehold land worth over 40 shillings a year were eligible to vote in county elections.” By the end of the eighteenth century only 2% of the population could vote. Some 70% of those who qualified as freemen were living in cities. Most freemen were if not rich, at least comfortable, with a business or trade, land and influence. The common man had none of these things, nor did he have the right to bare arms.
Nothing much has changed, the rich and the well to do are the only ones with real rights, (money talks and all that), and the people who really need them, are the ones who, by and large, have had them taken from them.
This observation of old English law which pre-dates the American Revolution shows how it influenced the the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution after Britain's American colonies became independent. Essentially what the US Constitution of 1787, and the Bill of Rights (the first 10 Amendments the original states demanded in order to ensure the Constitution was ratified) did was to ensure English style 'freeman' status to every man who wasn't a slave, regardless of wealth, guild status, or property ownership.
Thomas Jefferson once commented about the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution (the right to keep and bear arms) that it really wouldn't be necessary until they tried to abolish it.
Thomas Jefferson once commented about the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution (the right to keep and bear arms) that it really wouldn't be necessary until they tried to abolish it.
Mmmm me too - this is mine - shilouette laminate stock, ported fluted Volquartsen stainless barrel, target hammer, tuned trigger, extended mag release and slide control, sorbothane recoil buffer
This one belongs to BB (my lass) - carbon fibre barrel - threaded for moderator or muzzle break, Dragunov stock, target hammer, tuned trigger, extended mag release and slide control, sorbothane recoil buffer
Great guns for mini rifle, formal target or field work
Red
The rifles were originally tuned and put together by the best 10/22 man in the business (Roger Francis of South Yorkshire Shooting Supplies)
BBs is still pretty much as it left him other than a replacement firing pin and repeated exhaustive cleaning
I originally had a different barrel but I eventually wore the throat so I was having the occasional light strike and FTE so I upgraded to the "snake" ported barrel.
To be fair we shoot a LOT of mini rifle - tens of thousands of rounds - so a little wear is inevitable.
So mine is part me I guess. To be honest I wouldn't hesitate to make my own now from parts - they are a remarkably simple rifle to adapt to your needs, but to me when I was unfamiliar with them, it was worth having a top notch gunsmith do the work for me.
In general terms I would always say use an expert for firearms modifications - the 10/22 is absolutlely designed for such things as stock replacement, drop in controls and triggers etc, A screw driver and an allen key is all thats required. There are numerous things such as sight bases for which the receiver is already drilled and tapped so no re-proofing should ever be required.
The nice thing is you cans et them up just as you need - Roger even does a fully moderated barrel for the 10/22 so if pest control and small game is your only intended purpose, you can build a rifle exactly around that need. A fully moderated barrel shooting subs on one of these and the loudest thing is the bolt recriprocating. To me thats important as it minimises disturbance not only to people but also to non target animals and birds.
Red
BBs is still pretty much as it left him other than a replacement firing pin and repeated exhaustive cleaning
I originally had a different barrel but I eventually wore the throat so I was having the occasional light strike and FTE so I upgraded to the "snake" ported barrel.
To be fair we shoot a LOT of mini rifle - tens of thousands of rounds - so a little wear is inevitable.
So mine is part me I guess. To be honest I wouldn't hesitate to make my own now from parts - they are a remarkably simple rifle to adapt to your needs, but to me when I was unfamiliar with them, it was worth having a top notch gunsmith do the work for me.
In general terms I would always say use an expert for firearms modifications - the 10/22 is absolutlely designed for such things as stock replacement, drop in controls and triggers etc, A screw driver and an allen key is all thats required. There are numerous things such as sight bases for which the receiver is already drilled and tapped so no re-proofing should ever be required.
The nice thing is you cans et them up just as you need - Roger even does a fully moderated barrel for the 10/22 so if pest control and small game is your only intended purpose, you can build a rifle exactly around that need. A fully moderated barrel shooting subs on one of these and the loudest thing is the bolt recriprocating. To me thats important as it minimises disturbance not only to people but also to non target animals and birds.
Red
Hi Mrostov
I recently visited Boston and had to smile at the irony, your constitution was first read to the people from the balcony of the Customs House that still shows the lion and the unicorn of the British crown, a beautiful building that is being refurbished currently.
As you are aware we don't have a constitution in the UK that safe guards the 'Rights of Englishmen for all time' and have to rely on the benevolence of successive governments that have little regard for the law unless it can be used to support their self promotion.
I feel a rant coming on so I'm of to take some paracetamol and do work......or generate taxable income for our esteemed leaders all hail.
Pothunter.
I recently visited Boston and had to smile at the irony, your constitution was first read to the people from the balcony of the Customs House that still shows the lion and the unicorn of the British crown, a beautiful building that is being refurbished currently.
As you are aware we don't have a constitution in the UK that safe guards the 'Rights of Englishmen for all time' and have to rely on the benevolence of successive governments that have little regard for the law unless it can be used to support their self promotion.
I feel a rant coming on so I'm of to take some paracetamol and do work......or generate taxable income for our esteemed leaders all hail.
Pothunter.
wow I have never learned so much about british gun law in my life. (and i thought US laws were confusing ....HOLY COW!!), and its amazing hearing how far back your gun laws go.(I didnt even realize they had guns in the 1400's) well i want to say one thing before this thread does get really off topic, and this can be a pretty heated subject, even in a group like this! in my humble yet deadly accurate opinion, it doesn't matter whether crime goes up or down, even if gun crime was reduced to absolute zero, these harsh guns laws are WRONG. Any group of people that are controlled, and denied the opportunity to fight back should be considered ENSLAVED. the right to own a gun for personal defense is your insurance policy stating that you will never be denied your freedoms without your oppressors knowing that there will be a fight. (it is generally accepted that Japanese forces did not invade US mainland because they knew most citizens owned guns.) that is why, as the gun laws in my country get more and more strict, I will always oppose them. Regardless of the benefit to human life, they are certainly a denial of human freedom, and personally I rank freedom higher than life. (its sad to me that only 40 years ago non of us would even be having this conversation)
now back on subject, yes on the 10/22 should anyone get the opportunity to own one do it, they are like a do it yourself ultimate gun. british red has nailed it, I do disagree with him though on needing a gunsmith to modify them, I would say yes to any other gun on the planet but the 10/22 with only a moderate amount of gun knowledge is almost fully customizable, and totally safe,(its impossible to put it back together wrong!) Ruger designed it that way, if of course you are at any time ever in doubt consult a professional !
my father is a hobbyist gunsmith so i guess i have an advantage when i have a question about guns, and even though he can pretty much build any gun he wants, he loves the 10/22 so much that he owns 3!
now back on subject, yes on the 10/22 should anyone get the opportunity to own one do it, they are like a do it yourself ultimate gun. british red has nailed it, I do disagree with him though on needing a gunsmith to modify them, I would say yes to any other gun on the planet but the 10/22 with only a moderate amount of gun knowledge is almost fully customizable, and totally safe,(its impossible to put it back together wrong!) Ruger designed it that way, if of course you are at any time ever in doubt consult a professional !
my father is a hobbyist gunsmith so i guess i have an advantage when i have a question about guns, and even though he can pretty much build any gun he wants, he loves the 10/22 so much that he owns 3!
statikpunk - I wasn't clear in my response I agree with you. Once you've learned to strip and clean a 10/22 then you can do basic modifications to one no problem! My "in general terms" line meant to imply its one of the few rifles where its something that can be done without a gunsmith.
I would stay away from the political / defense side of shooting however. Its not what this forum is about.
Red
I would stay away from the political / defense side of shooting however. Its not what this forum is about.
Red
I agree we really should get back on subject, getting into politics always ruffles peoples feathers for some reason, it doesn't bother me. I like to argue, don't take anything personally, and love to hear what others think about such core beliefs (especially people in other countries) but it does fluster some people, and I really don't want to lose track of this thread, because it is really interesting.
oh and sorry about the misunderstanding Red
it is funny to me though how whenever guns comes up on any of the bushcrafting forums i frequent, it always boils down to a politics, rights, yada yada, issue. i think it is because in the US (at least for me and most i know) guns are a part of bushcraft and outdoors, and in the UK they are not included nearly as much because of availability.
I also think it is interesting on how many people in the UK bring up quietness, and "non disturbing to the public" features in their gun reviews. when to be honest those things have never even crossed my mind. anyway i think its all fascinating, so in this thread I implore everyone to not leave out the politics, just don't make them a thread killing issue, because it really is interesting. (and a viable part of bushcraft, at least to some)
(also Im interested to know what people think of what i said in my last post, do you think I'm "right on" or a jack a$$.......maybe this could be a new thread?? what do you think??) Im open to all opinions, but be prepared, if you give one you will probably get one back:swordfigh
oh and if I'm the only jerk that thinks this stuff is interesting then let me know and I will let it die
oh and sorry about the misunderstanding Red
it is funny to me though how whenever guns comes up on any of the bushcrafting forums i frequent, it always boils down to a politics, rights, yada yada, issue. i think it is because in the US (at least for me and most i know) guns are a part of bushcraft and outdoors, and in the UK they are not included nearly as much because of availability.
I also think it is interesting on how many people in the UK bring up quietness, and "non disturbing to the public" features in their gun reviews. when to be honest those things have never even crossed my mind. anyway i think its all fascinating, so in this thread I implore everyone to not leave out the politics, just don't make them a thread killing issue, because it really is interesting. (and a viable part of bushcraft, at least to some)
(also Im interested to know what people think of what i said in my last post, do you think I'm "right on" or a jack a$$.......maybe this could be a new thread?? what do you think??) Im open to all opinions, but be prepared, if you give one you will probably get one back:swordfigh
oh and if I'm the only jerk that thinks this stuff is interesting then let me know and I will let it die
OK back to the topic in hand, an observation, am I the only one who has forsaken the telescopic sight in favour of fieldcraft?
Any bowhunters (proper hunters
) out there? interested to have their input.
Pothunter.
Any bowhunters (proper hunters
) out there? interested to have their input.Pothunter.
Incidentally, just met with Roger today when I called in for some scope mounts. He's a great guy to chat to, and was very generous with his time and advice about getting the "ticket". I think he'll be having some money off me in the future....
I think he's going to be at Bisley this weekend, if anyone's going to be there.
Rat
Might pop in to see him - he hasn't been for a few years to Phoenix - did you meet Sheila too?
Daft as a brush is Roger mind you - does a good John Cleese impression when the mood takes him!
Red
Daft as a brush is Roger mind you - does a good John Cleese impression when the mood takes him!
Red
Here is an interesting link of someone out in the California desert who decided to document the long range effectiveness of the .22LR at 250 and 300 yard ranges. His target was a raw, defrosted turkey, giblets still in it, wrapped in 3 layers of clothing.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1
A lot of people are taking long range rimfire shooting seriously nowadays and you can even get a 10/22 scope base machined to give you and extra 15MOA in scope elevation.
Out in the American west we get the opportunity a lot to nail game and varmints at longer ranges than shooters in other areas. One target of opportunity that I got one day was a large feral dog I killed at 190 yards with my 10/22. The US has developed something of a feral dog problem, especially in the west where they will often travel in packs and breed with coyotes. Especially if you are within any reasonable distance from a large city like Phoenix, you will have a feral dog problem. Feral dogs can be really tough to kill and my favorite feral dog weapon is a 5.56mm AR-15. I was making efforts to wipe out a local pack and I shot this one that looked like a large chow in the chest with 3 rounds of .22LR Federal hollowpoint at a range of about 20 feet as he ran past me. I had to track him another 250 yards before I found him keeled over, dead.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1
A lot of people are taking long range rimfire shooting seriously nowadays and you can even get a 10/22 scope base machined to give you and extra 15MOA in scope elevation.
Out in the American west we get the opportunity a lot to nail game and varmints at longer ranges than shooters in other areas. One target of opportunity that I got one day was a large feral dog I killed at 190 yards with my 10/22. The US has developed something of a feral dog problem, especially in the west where they will often travel in packs and breed with coyotes. Especially if you are within any reasonable distance from a large city like Phoenix, you will have a feral dog problem. Feral dogs can be really tough to kill and my favorite feral dog weapon is a 5.56mm AR-15. I was making efforts to wipe out a local pack and I shot this one that looked like a large chow in the chest with 3 rounds of .22LR Federal hollowpoint at a range of about 20 feet as he ran past me. I had to track him another 250 yards before I found him keeled over, dead.
I'll stay out of the political discussion on this one. I think it is fairly obvious that I am a typical American RKBA proponent. I have been enthusiastically participating in anything that goes bang since age six.
One of my all-time favorite hunting guns is my 6.5 inch Ruger Single-Six. In the .22 lr cylinder it can handle anything from .22 CB caps, Shorts, Longs, or Long rifle. With the magnum cylinder installed it can shoot all of the .22 WMR loads. It makes a great small game companion gun when hunting big game with a centerfire rifle. As a kid nobody told me that a handgun was only good to 25 yards or so. I had mine sighted in at 100 yards and took many groundhogs at that range with it.
I would hunt with a 10/22 but they are not legal for hunting in Pennsylvania. For small game season I used to use a Browning T-bolt, hands down my favorite small game gun. Unfortunately my older brother sold it out from under us when nobody was looking, along with almost all of my dad's hunting guns.
The standard hunting arm in my area is the 12 gauge pump for everything from dove to deer. I'm really looking forward to getting some turkey hunting in this year that I'll be back in the US. The turkey popiulation has exploded in Pennsylvania recently. When I was a kid they were rare, now it is common to see flocks of 20 or more in suburbia.
As for feral dogs, they can be really scary. I've run into them before in PA. I have a carry permit in PA and usually carry a handgun when hiking or camping. You have to be careful though. I once had a rotwiler come screaming around a bend in the trail towards me. He stopped short, snot literally wrapped around his head, no collar. He just sort of froze there in a high alert pose. I froze too, (snot wrapped around my head no collar as well), in a low ready pose. I didn't take aim but I had my gun out even before he stopped. We stood there for a long pause and then off in the distance I heard someone calling and he ran back the way he came.
When he reappeared with his owners (two women) we had a little chat about dogs and guns. He was a nice dog, he just looked mean. They had no problem with my being armed, its pretty much par for the course in the woods there. Mac
One of my all-time favorite hunting guns is my 6.5 inch Ruger Single-Six. In the .22 lr cylinder it can handle anything from .22 CB caps, Shorts, Longs, or Long rifle. With the magnum cylinder installed it can shoot all of the .22 WMR loads. It makes a great small game companion gun when hunting big game with a centerfire rifle. As a kid nobody told me that a handgun was only good to 25 yards or so. I had mine sighted in at 100 yards and took many groundhogs at that range with it.
I would hunt with a 10/22 but they are not legal for hunting in Pennsylvania. For small game season I used to use a Browning T-bolt, hands down my favorite small game gun. Unfortunately my older brother sold it out from under us when nobody was looking, along with almost all of my dad's hunting guns.
The standard hunting arm in my area is the 12 gauge pump for everything from dove to deer. I'm really looking forward to getting some turkey hunting in this year that I'll be back in the US. The turkey popiulation has exploded in Pennsylvania recently. When I was a kid they were rare, now it is common to see flocks of 20 or more in suburbia.
As for feral dogs, they can be really scary. I've run into them before in PA. I have a carry permit in PA and usually carry a handgun when hiking or camping. You have to be careful though. I once had a rotwiler come screaming around a bend in the trail towards me. He stopped short, snot literally wrapped around his head, no collar. He just sort of froze there in a high alert pose. I froze too, (snot wrapped around my head no collar as well), in a low ready pose. I didn't take aim but I had my gun out even before he stopped. We stood there for a long pause and then off in the distance I heard someone calling and he ran back the way he came.
When he reappeared with his owners (two women) we had a little chat about dogs and guns. He was a nice dog, he just looked mean. They had no problem with my being armed, its pretty much par for the course in the woods there. Mac
OK back to the topic in hand, an observation, am I the only one who has forsaken the telescopic sight in favour of fieldcraft?
Any bowhunters (proper hunters
Pothunter.
not sure what you mean by fieldcraft over a scope, a scope is a huge benefit helps you shoot better for cleaner kills. as well as here in the American west many of the ranges that you are dealing with when shooting are greater than you would get in some of the more forested areas of the world.
and incidentally I am a bowhunter, i just got into it about 6 years ago I have a PSE compund that my wife now shoots , I shoot a black widow recurve and when the mood strikes me I have a howard hill longbow also. I enjoy hunting with my bows (i always feel very nostalgic for years past) but I really am a gun nut at heart so when the hunting seasons role around i inevitably take a gun. hunting with a bow is really fun and challenging. for instance i have been hunting antelope with my recurve for 3 years now and have yet to get one, but it has been really fun trying to get close enough to them for a shot.
I have never seen a pack of feral dogs before i live in northern nevada. I have seen a few domestic dogs that you could tell had not been home in a while, but none that i would say have actually gone feral (like a feral hog) i guess I am not close enough to a big city to get that much around here. I do hunt coyotes a lot though and that is a lot of fun.
hey MROSTOV if you enjoy long range rimfires then you should pick up a .17 mach2 it is one of the most impressive rimfire cartridges I have seen in a long time, and it doesnt cost any more than 22 mag to shoot. i think i wrote this further down the thread, but me and my father both have one I have a ruger, and he has a kimber, we had an egg shotting contest at over 300 yards, he got his egg on the first shot and i got mine on the second! wind blowing and everything!
