Fulled Loden

[Nomad]

Found this and ordered a sample...

https://www.myfabrics.co.uk/81-4578-127_fulled-loden-dark-olive.html

I'm considering trying some as a lining for a bodywarmer or jacket.

Anyone used it? If so, how thick is it? Does it have reasonable wind resistance? What's it like to sew on a machine?

 

[Toddy]

I don't think I've ever heard of 'warp knitted' fulled fabric called Loden.
We live and learn.
Be interested to hear your opinion of it when you have it to hand though.

In general Loden is very good fulled wool. It's warm and windproof, but breathable.

M

 

[Janne]

Loden is the classic outdoor clothes fabric from my family home area.

Warm, strong, hardwearing, beautiful. Has some water repellant ability ( soft gentle drizzle) but not much.

 

[Nomad]

The sample has arrived. It's about 3mm thick, softish hand, looks coarser than it feels, has a fair amount of stretch across what I assume is the weft and on the bias, and noticeably less on the warp. However, the ability to stop wind passing through is basically non-existent. For comparison, my Swanndri Ranger shirt is about the same, while the Bush Shirt has some noticeable resistance (but is by no means windproof). I can't imagine that it would shed rain for long - the fibres in the BushShirt are much more tightly packed.

As an insulating lining inside a windproof shell, I dare say it might be okay, but it seems rather expensive (£20.65 a metre, 140cm wide) for the fabric that it is. I don't get why they show pictures of it made into jackets - performance-wise, it strikes me as a non-starter for an outer shell.

I don't get the knitted Loden thing, either. Every reference I can find about Loden (it's history, etc) seems to mention, at least in passing, that it's woven and not knitted. I'm beginning to think that this is just some sort of knitted wool that's been fulled and is being called Loden when it really isn't.

I also got a sample of this...

https://www.myfabrics.co.uk/103-poso-g18-083_mottled-wool-fabric-grey.html

Slightly thinner at about 2.5mm, woven, similar hand, slightly softer feel. Stretch in all directions is similar to the less stretchy direction of the 'Loden'. Wind resistance is similarly non-existent. Expensive at £22.55 a metre (140cm wide).

As an aside, I also got some samples of cottons...

https://www.myfabrics.co.uk/81-04795-124_decor-fabric-canvas-dark-green.html

A very bluey green (like a mix of phthalo green and phthalo blue for those that paint pictures). Wind resistance is pretty hopeless.


https://www.myfabrics.co.uk/04-canvas140-036_canvas-140-cm-17.html

A passable forest green. Mostly cotton (20% polyester). Wind resistance also pretty hopeless.


https://www.myfabrics.co.uk/81-2888-027_cotton-twill-olive.html

The correct colour. Wind resistance is okay, although I've encountered better (comparable to, or slightly less than, a 100% cotton 5.11 Tactical shirt). Enough resistance to need to take care that it's carefully over the mouth when blowing through, and then some does get through with a decent 'huff'. I'd imagine a two-layer garment made of this would be as windproof as it gets. Hand is maybe a bit soft and drapey - strikes me as a good lining material inside a slightly stiffer shell (and comes in a decent range of colours if you want contrast).

Density of weave of the cottons increases in the order above. Stretch is similar for all - virtually none on the warp and weft, some on the bias.

 

[Toddy]

Right then, that's not Loden.
It might be Loden coloured, but it's not Loden.

Loden can be about 3mm thick, but it's firm, and is stable, will not stretch easily on the bias, though it can be shaped with steam.
I can send you a sample of a British woven version of Loden, which is very good indeed, so that you have some kind of comparison. I also have some scraps left of wool flannel, which is very fine, does not stretch per se, and is pretty much windproof too. That's the stuff that was used to line the original swandri.

Your best bet for what you're looking for, at a reasonable price of around £15 a metre is one of the folks who supply reenactors.
Ann Laverick, Herts Fabrics or Bernard Hunt, all come to mind.
Hainsworth's sell the best, ne plus ultra, but it's really expensive. It's the stuff that dress uniform jackets and coats are made from (see the royal lads on wreath laying duty at the cenotaph ? that's Hainsworth's)
Personally, I'd try the reenactors wool suppliers.
York Fabrics might have something, they're superb suppliers but not cheap, but they will not rip you off and send you dud stuff pretending to be something else.
Maggie Stewart (Maggie's Fabrics on eBay) might have something, but sometimes her wools are a bit too lightweight. Just your luck there, she is very sound otherwise.

 

[Janne]

If I wanted to buy Loden I think I would ask one of the German members for an internet site where such can be bought.

Loden is a fantastic, extremely hardwearing outer fabric.
The classic Loden is grey, then came the green. Today you can buy other shades too.
Loden Frey is one of the better manufacturers of clothes made from Loden

 

[Jared]

https://roughstuff.de makes nice looking loden jackets. Also seems they've branched into making cotton (sounds ventile-ish, probably from Stotz) stuff too. Not inexpensive though, as always.

 

[Toddy]

Loden is an excellent fabric, but it's just a name for a plain dyed fulled wool cloth. It is/was a common product throughout Europe. British wool cloth has been an important staple since Roman times.

Last wool I bought from Germany was not good. It wasn't a patch on the British spun and woven stuff and it was half again as expensive. It had polyester in the mix and the dye wasn't properly fixed, it stained a white linen undergown.
Rather disappointed, tbh.
I did get some Danish wool fabric though, and it was excellent.
There's a Dutch fabric company that sell boiled wool too,
https://www.rijstextiles.com/en/information/contact/
and Active fabrics have it too. (ask for sample ? )
https://www.activefabrics.co.uk/wool-fabrics/boiled-wool-loden.html


Reenactors tunics are basically bush-shirts, and those folks are tight so they look for value for money on their kit. The biggest issue is buying by mail, if you don't have a sample to hand in the first place, then you can't send the seller that and say, "This is what I want", and instead people are disappointed by the offerings that arrive....like the stuff Nomad has just gotten, sold as Loden.
Ask for a sample, offer to at least pay postage, explain what you want, most fabric retailers would rather have you pleased enough to come back to shop again.

M

 

[Janne]

Is it correct to say it is an oldfashioned fabric? And as such extremely hardwearing ( if made by a reputable company in Europe).

I had Loden Frey trousers, jacket and coat and it lasted me until I developed a ‘one pack’ from enjoying food too much...
I think I had them for close to 20 years.

 

[Toddy]

Not really 'old fashioned', just not really used in 'fashionable' clothing, iimmc ?
It's still used in high/ good quality coats, jackets, uniforms, traditional dress, and the like.
It's never a cheap fabric and sometimes now we do get it used in the kind of coats not meant or expected to be worn more than a couple of Winters, but then it's often adulterated (as the stuff I bought from Germany was) with modern fibres, and the quality suffers. Supposedly to improve the way the cloth hangs, shapes, etc., but really I reckon it's just for cheapness. The modern fibres do make it more easily cleaned with modern methods though. In the past loden was brushed, it was aired, it was carefully kept and if it ever did need washed (sometimes hunting clothing got bloody for instance) it was just immersed in soft water to lift the grime/dirt, etc., and drained and left flat to dry. Shaped again while still just damp. Now folks are lazy about clothing and expect it to survive a 40degree wash and 1600rpm spins and tumble driers.
Don't do that with real Loden, or tweed, but maybe that 'knitted' ( it's not Loden, not as we know real Loden to be, I don't care what they're claiming it it) fabric that Nomad bought might take modern laundering.

 

[Janne]

Yep. Mom did brush it, take out blood stains with something I have forgotten, air it and store it in a cuboard with the other woolen clothes and furs, with a box of wood shavings and a couple of opened tins if nasty smelling white moth balls.

Then I moved from home.....
Still lasted until I got fat. The blood stains were from animals I helped reach Nirvana.

I hate modern quality products. If the fabric is ok, then the sewing thread is crap. If those are fine, then they cut the pieces off warp.

Yep, a grumpy 57 year old (fat and semideaf) dodger I am!

 

[Janne]

If I spend the time and afford making something, I am happy to pay for premium components.

 

[Toddy]

Me too.
Been thinking about something that might do instead of loden, how about Pilot cloth ? that's ship's pilot I mean. It's the stuff that Pea Jackets were made from the kind sailor's wore. Warm, pretty much bombproof, waterproof to a fair degree and windproof too.
Hainsworth's have some, and they'll send free samples....
https://www.hainsworth.co.uk/collections/pilot-cloth/

 

[Campagnolo]

I have a roughstaff Haudegen Anorak and I wasn't impressed at all. I also have a Guide shirt form Bison Bushcraft and I'm enjoying it a lot, it's really good. My suggestion is that you look more at tweed, it's very performing and handy. In my opinion a thick tweed would perform better.

 

[Nomad]

Just ordered swatches of the following from Truro Fabrics...

https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-fabrics/coating-fabric/wool-coating-green-multi.html
https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...eavy-wool-coating-fabric-chocolate-brown.html
https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...iled-pure-wool-jersey-fabric-olive-green.html
https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...gal-tweed-fabric-green-brown-herringbone.html

Had a look at activefabrics, and their samples are tiny (2 x 4cm). I get the feeling that their 'Loden' and boiled wool are similar to the stuff from myfabrics (knitted and/or a wool blend). The stuff at Rijs is only 60% wool (and their cottons are also blends with synthetics).

It's notable that Hainsworth have no prices, so one would assume that they're reassuringly devoid of the need to ask.

To be clear on the 'Loden' and other stuff from myfabrics, they were also swatches, and they have lots of colours described as 'Fulled Loden', so they're implying something about the fabric structure itself.

On swatches and samples in general, I've found that it's vital to get samples before splurging on metres of fabric. Almost without exception, fabric sellers don't really describe their wares in enough detail, especially with regard to things like wind resistance.I guess part of the problem is that the fabric selling game covers a wide market, where 'canvas' to someone making stuff like soft furnishings or 'fashion' clothes has a very different meaning to someone making outdoor gear. Same goes for the actual make-up of the fabric - something that's 65% Polyester is not cotton by any sensible measure.

 

[Toddy]

Very true.
I know that the redcoat unifroms I made using Hainsworth's got no change out of thirty quid a metre, but it was heritage stuff, and absolutely superb....and that was a bulk buy of full rolls to get that price too. The total bill for fabric for those cost Ian thousands. No fraying, hardwearing, a delight to cut and sew. Crisp edges, no bias pulling, no need to stitch any cut edge whatsoever, even the buttonholes stayed firm and neat, though I did stitch around those just for extra security. The fabric seamed beautifully and true, and took layers of hand sewing, braiding (called lace then) buttons and hid every stitch. When we put the men into those uniforms they commented on both how comfortable they were, but how weatherproof they were too. Cairngorms in the middle of Winter and those men were fine, the reenactors dressed as 'highlanders' were only as comfortable if they had used really good fulled wool for their plaids, waistcoats, jackets and bunnets. If they hadn't, the wind whistled through those layers like a hot knife through butter. We pulled more highlanders off the field with early hypothermia...thinking on it, we didn't pull a single redcoated fellow, they really were fine in their clothing. Their hands and feet weren't so good, but once we got gaiters on them, even their feet and legs were fine. I'd made their britches from Hainsworth's wool too.
I honestly believe that their clothing helped the redcoats be such an effective force, and that was down to fulled wool, proper real fulled wool.

M

 

[Nomad]

Quick update on the swatches from Truro...

https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-fabrics/coating-fabric/wool-coating-green-multi.html

Quite thin (about 1mm), decent wind resistance when blowing through, virtually no stretch on the warp and weft, a fair amount on the bias. Fairly soft hand, but not drapey. Somewhat mottled colouring with a general leaning towards emerald green. A bit pricey at £36 a meter (155cm wide).


https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...eavy-wool-coating-fabric-chocolate-brown.html

Pretty thick at 2.5-3mm, some wind resistance, but a bit less than the lighter coating fabric above. Stretch very similar to above. Moderate hand, not drapey. Colour is basically dark brown (and that was the only colour they listed), which isn't my preference for an outer layer, but i think it would make a good lining for an insulated garment. Price is not too bad at £24.90 per meter (155cm wide).


https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...iled-pure-wool-jersey-fabric-olive-green.html

Jersey = knitted, which I'm starting to think is a clue when it comes to boiled wool. 2.5-3mm thick, and as windproof as the average bit of netting (ie, useless). Some stretch on what I assume is the weft, less on the warp, on the bias is similar to the weft. Fairly soft hand, but not drapey. Colour is like a forest green with leanings towards olive. Would pass for an outer layer in terms of colour, but not in terms of reducing windchill. Viable as an insulated lining, but pricey at £36 a meter (and 144cm wide).


https://www.trurofabrics.com/wool-f...gal-tweed-fabric-green-brown-herringbone.html

Pretty thin (about 0.8mm), good wind resistance - similar to, if not slightly better than, the green coating fabric, and stretch is about the same. Fairly soft hand, but not drapey. The green/brown herringbone blurs to a sort of lovat green. Viable as an insulating layer in a lighter garment, and I'd happily wear something like a shirt made from this. This seems to have the potential for good performance for £30 a meter (157cm wide).


The Donegal Tweed is the winner from this batch - I find myself wondering about some sort of smock-style shirt that could be made from it. It would be great as a first mid layer over a merino base layer - you could take outer layers off if too warm and it has enough wind resistance to stop you getting chilled.

The light coating fabric is pretty close to the tweed as an alternative but seems expensive for no particular gain. I'd certainly consider the heavy coating fabric as a lining for a winter jacket (and it would be fine on its own for a bushy smock if dark brown is considered okay, but I'm not keen). The boiled jersey wool would probably do quite well for a lining as well but not at an extra £11 a meter, and not without the addition of an extra bit of wind resistance.

 

[Toddy]

Disappointing really
It's a nightmare when we know what we want but trying to find it is a run a round frustration.

Try Herts fabrics. Their stuff is very good, and a fraction of those prices.
http://www.hertsfabrics.co.uk/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=479

or Maggie Stewart,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_...TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xwool.TRS0&_nkw=wool&_sacat=0

 

[Nomad]

Another two for sample requests, by the looks of it. Have you seen the light green from Herts, by any chance?

On the frustration, I think I've accepted that the only way is to work through the options to home in on fabrics that are suitable.

I did a search for Donegal tweed, and found it at Yourkshire Fabrics for... £60 a meter +vat, although I don't know if that's the same weight as Truro. Also available from sellers on eBay, described as 'made in Huddersfield' (which I didn't know was in Donegal).

 

[Nomad]

On the weight of the Donegal tweed from Truro Fabric, the piece is 132 x 82mm, and weighs 2.7g, which I make to be 250gsm, or about 7.5oz. So, half the weight of the dearer stuff from Yorkshire Fabric.