Define "Productive" then see how well you fit within that definition before discounting an entire country as "unproductive"
Camping ban plot thickens
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Define "Productive" then see how well you fit within that definition before discounting an entire country as "unproductive"
A commission ban on camping would cause outrage, and at a time when the commission is doing very well PR wise for it's open policy.
Neds' (anyone who litters is a ned in my book) leaving trash at their backsides is nothing new but seems to have become worse in recent years, perhaps a revamped reintroduction of the old "Keep Scotland Tidy" campaign broadcast on the BBC would have the desired result. Certainly worked for me, being indoctrinated as a kid I've never littered.
The land and what to do with it is a difficult issue, reform is needed but there are many established competing interests such as charities, trusts, communities and private interests, very few, if any, have the interests of the general public at heart.
Perhaps the most worrying for people here, including me, is SNH appointing it's self as custodian of the whole country. Their wild land designation isn't without controversy, and perhaps most worrying of all, designating land that isn't there's as "wild land" and then pressuring the government to "protect it", from people, people like me, and development (development could be as simple as grazing cattle on the hill, for example).
There is no wild land in Scotland in the true sense of the word, perhaps some of the mountain tops but even here the hand of man can be seen quite clearly, paths cairns trig-points and the like.
The Scottish Highlands was the domain of cattle and small holding husbanders for thousands of years, right up until the 1700's when the people and their cattle were cleared, along with trees, to increase the profitability of the ground, then came the sheep, and then the sheep were pushed out in favour of deer.
Round here we have, estates; old money and new money, SNH, Forestry; private and the commission, the National Trust etc. Funnily enough it's the old money owned estates where I feel freest, I suppose it's because they've had most time to adjust and find accommodation with the post clearance remnant of the population, that and the fact they're not under pressure to make money from the ground (but then thats a whole other problem, stifling economic development in fragile rural economies) thereby leaving it largely unsupervised.
Whatever we do we'll make a mess of it.
Me and my Rambler (a traditional movement of some provenance, with an edge of militancy to it, in these here islands) attitude is likely to become a thing of the past as the charities and trusts muscle in in an attempt to control and manage huge areas of the country, wild areas
unchallenged and on their own terms and in their own interest.
Where I live, every loch has a diver, every glen an eagle and everybody is free to come visit an take a look, yet I know an RSPB warden who is actively seeking to restrict freedom of access across SNH NT and Commission land, during the best hill walking months, to help the nesting birds, birds that do very well because of people and their careful interaction with the land. There is room for people and wildlife, in fact in certain quarters it's actually the people that are endangered.
It won't work, but they are gaining a toe hold and there's always a gullible urban public easily duped into supporting the crafty self interested charities and swallow the rebranding of land use and the people who use it, from springtime hill walker to springtime wildlife criminal, from wild camper to illegal squatter, it'll happen if people take their eye off the ball and allow these people too much latitude.
Not dropping litter, keeping dogs on the leash during the nesting period and not being an eejit generally is not difficult to do. Most people want a thriving countryside with lots of wildlife and it should be no surprise to anybody that the best bits are the bit's that aren't managed.
Estates need to loosen their grip and others need to get their hands off
Rant over
Neds' (anyone who litters is a ned in my book) leaving trash at their backsides is nothing new but seems to have become worse in recent years, perhaps a revamped reintroduction of the old "Keep Scotland Tidy" campaign broadcast on the BBC would have the desired result. Certainly worked for me, being indoctrinated as a kid I've never littered.
The land and what to do with it is a difficult issue, reform is needed but there are many established competing interests such as charities, trusts, communities and private interests, very few, if any, have the interests of the general public at heart.
Perhaps the most worrying for people here, including me, is SNH appointing it's self as custodian of the whole country. Their wild land designation isn't without controversy, and perhaps most worrying of all, designating land that isn't there's as "wild land" and then pressuring the government to "protect it", from people, people like me, and development (development could be as simple as grazing cattle on the hill, for example).
There is no wild land in Scotland in the true sense of the word, perhaps some of the mountain tops but even here the hand of man can be seen quite clearly, paths cairns trig-points and the like.
The Scottish Highlands was the domain of cattle and small holding husbanders for thousands of years, right up until the 1700's when the people and their cattle were cleared, along with trees, to increase the profitability of the ground, then came the sheep, and then the sheep were pushed out in favour of deer.
Round here we have, estates; old money and new money, SNH, Forestry; private and the commission, the National Trust etc. Funnily enough it's the old money owned estates where I feel freest, I suppose it's because they've had most time to adjust and find accommodation with the post clearance remnant of the population, that and the fact they're not under pressure to make money from the ground (but then thats a whole other problem, stifling economic development in fragile rural economies) thereby leaving it largely unsupervised.
Whatever we do we'll make a mess of it.
Me and my Rambler (a traditional movement of some provenance, with an edge of militancy to it, in these here islands) attitude is likely to become a thing of the past as the charities and trusts muscle in in an attempt to control and manage huge areas of the country, wild areas
unchallenged and on their own terms and in their own interest.Where I live, every loch has a diver, every glen an eagle and everybody is free to come visit an take a look, yet I know an RSPB warden who is actively seeking to restrict freedom of access across SNH NT and Commission land, during the best hill walking months, to help the nesting birds, birds that do very well because of people and their careful interaction with the land. There is room for people and wildlife, in fact in certain quarters it's actually the people that are endangered.
It won't work, but they are gaining a toe hold and there's always a gullible urban public easily duped into supporting the crafty self interested charities and swallow the rebranding of land use and the people who use it, from springtime hill walker to springtime wildlife criminal, from wild camper to illegal squatter, it'll happen if people take their eye off the ball and allow these people too much latitude.
Not dropping litter, keeping dogs on the leash during the nesting period and not being an eejit generally is not difficult to do. Most people want a thriving countryside with lots of wildlife and it should be no surprise to anybody that the best bits are the bit's that aren't managed.
Estates need to loosen their grip and others need to get their hands off
Rant over
Sadly this is ever so common with bodies that become the object of their own existence. I feel that what it akes to get to the top of such organisations also means losing the very point of their existence. They become ends in themselves. Basic question, despite litter and other solveable problems, why would you want to lose the freedom you have in Scotland?
Yep, I like it too.
Demographic, thats a slightly harsh thing to say to someone who cannot work because of health (polite way of saying `attitudes of employers to my health.`)
Down here I see livestock, I see crops, I see things going on. Very little of that on Lewis
Demographic, thats a slightly harsh thing to say to someone who cannot work because of health (polite way of saying `attitudes of employers to my health.`)
Down here I see livestock, I see crops, I see things going on. Very little of that on Lewis
I honestly didn't know you couldn't work for health reasons. In fact I don't know much about you full stop. It was more of a general comment and as I see it there's lots of Scotland that's "productive" in one way or another.
Sorry if that's caused offence.
But Tengu, you travelled with your own world view, it's part of your Aspberger's mind set.
You need to widen the scope of your view before you can make such judgements on people you don't know…..and you visited in Summer, try it just now, when the tourist season is long closed….but people still live there. You thought it harsh in Summer, in the depths of Winter I doubt you'd drive round happily in the wind and rain and the dark days.
The weather is a constant concern there. So much so that it even has it's own Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/WesternIslesWeather/
Today Lewis had 6h.47minutes of daylight. You're down in Cornwall, you had 8h.15m……that's a lot more light for even evergreen trees, and while Lewis basked in a balmy 4degC, you had a nice 13degC in Cornwall (and you thought that cold, didn't you? )
It's a different place, it has different potentials.
M
You need to widen the scope of your view before you can make such judgements on people you don't know…..and you visited in Summer, try it just now, when the tourist season is long closed….but people still live there. You thought it harsh in Summer, in the depths of Winter I doubt you'd drive round happily in the wind and rain and the dark days.
The weather is a constant concern there. So much so that it even has it's own Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/WesternIslesWeather/
Today Lewis had 6h.47minutes of daylight. You're down in Cornwall, you had 8h.15m……that's a lot more light for even evergreen trees, and while Lewis basked in a balmy 4degC, you had a nice 13degC in Cornwall (and you thought that cold, didn't you? )
It's a different place, it has different potentials.
M
I think the British Isles are all beautiful, and the range of differences in geology, ecology, economy etc., within the islands is immense. I love the diversity
Just now Cumbria, the borders, parts of Perthshire (and on a lesser scale, Lanarkshire) are flooded and we have gale force winds. Wales has been hit hard, again, too. Even in my usually sheltered bit of the world we are inundated with flooded roads and burns bursting over their banks, with trees blown over as well
Other parts of the country are having a quietish night though.
We're bemoaning potential changes in access while other folks are struggling (literally) to just keep their homes above water.
I drove through Cumbria when the waters were receding last time, and it was like being on a road across a sea. They have my utmost sympathy going through anything like that again.
M
Just now Cumbria, the borders, parts of Perthshire (and on a lesser scale, Lanarkshire) are flooded and we have gale force winds. Wales has been hit hard, again, too. Even in my usually sheltered bit of the world we are inundated with flooded roads and burns bursting over their banks, with trees blown over as well
Other parts of the country are having a quietish night though.We're bemoaning potential changes in access while other folks are struggling (literally) to just keep their homes above water.
I drove through Cumbria when the waters were receding last time, and it was like being on a road across a sea. They have my utmost sympathy going through anything like that again.
M
Ah well, its all their own fault for farming sheep according to George Monbiot
Charming human being isn't he?
Oh yes, that rather sounds like his usual ill founded but oft 'preached' type of response.
I felt heart sorry for the folks in Cumbria last time (Lurch's business was flooded out, and he eventually closed down despite having a sterling reputation), to watch the news and see it happening again in the same area, makes Monbiot's comment despicably cruel.
M
I felt heart sorry for the folks in Cumbria last time (Lurch's business was flooded out, and he eventually closed down despite having a sterling reputation), to watch the news and see it happening again in the same area, makes Monbiot's comment despicably cruel.
M
Mmm - 178mm of rain on sodden ground in 24 hrs - like anything would prevent that lot flowing down hill
I doubt trees would help much...But every little helps.
I read a report on flooding once, it said that a blockage as simple as a breeze block in a stream could cause the water to back up and flood.
We need to keep our waterways maintained, to avoid systems which increase runoff (except where you want to remove water fast, of course) and to stop building on flood plains.
Even then, it will still flood...sometimes
I read a report on flooding once, it said that a blockage as simple as a breeze block in a stream could cause the water to back up and flood.
We need to keep our waterways maintained, to avoid systems which increase runoff (except where you want to remove water fast, of course) and to stop building on flood plains.
Even then, it will still flood...sometimes
I fieldwalked huge areas of the Lake District. Even in late Spring the fields were sodden wet with flooded areas. The locals said that those were good land too. Even the hills we walked were sodden wet.
We have a temperate maritime climate. The wetter areas are always going to be a challenge. Apparantly they've had more than a month's usual rain for this time of year, in a day…..so far. It's still pouring.
M
We have a temperate maritime climate. The wetter areas are always going to be a challenge. Apparantly they've had more than a month's usual rain for this time of year, in a day…..so far. It's still pouring.
M
May seem unproductive but the likes of Orkney produced a culture that had a big influence on the rest of the UK. The land can produce & support but not in the way that modern folks see things.
On the tree front a lot of the land probably never had the trees that folk imagine. Yes there was once forest covering a fair bit of the country but there was a definite tree line that would peter out due to altitude & soil conditions.
So saying I've had some interesting discussions with folks at some of the Scottish ski resorts trying to convince them that strategic planting would help hold snow where needed, help avalanche prevention and do a lot for the aesthetics.
A book that May be a good addition to your library is Hostile Habitats. Gives a good insight into how the flora & fauna link with the history & geology of the land.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
I think the British Isles are all beautiful, and the range of differences in geology, ecology, economy etc., within the islands is immense. I love the diversity
Just now Cumbria, the borders, parts of Perthshire (and on a lesser scale, Lanarkshire) are flooded and we have gale force winds. Wales has been hit hard, again, too. Even in my usually sheltered bit of the world we are inundated with flooded roads and burns bursting over their banks, with trees blown over as well
We're bemoaning potential changes in access while other folks are struggling (literally) to just keep their homes above water.
I drove through Cumbria when the waters were receding last time, and it was like being on a road across a sea. They have my utmost sympathy going through anything like that again.
M
Carlisle here.
Just helped my daughter move stuff upstairs and put sandbags at the back door , her house has water coming up from under the floorboards now.
Last time this happened the rebuilding took a year for some people. She'll likely be staying back with us for a while then.
Its still well worth fighting for continued access for camping in Scotland though.
I'm sorry to hear this Demographic, and I hope the storm's by and things are quickly drained.
It's still going to be a hellish mess to clear up in folks homes and businesses though. Just before Christmas and at nearly the darkest time of the year too.
We're not supposed to discuss politics, but the sheer amount of money spent on other ventures that seems to be needed nearer home, is an appalling set of figures. I know money's not the whole answer by any means, but it certainly helps to pay for the engineering and land works.
I hope folks quickly get help to sort out the mess, and much though I'm sure she's loved, that your daughter is back in her own home asap.
atb,
M
It's still going to be a hellish mess to clear up in folks homes and businesses though. Just before Christmas and at nearly the darkest time of the year too.
We're not supposed to discuss politics, but the sheer amount of money spent on other ventures that seems to be needed nearer home, is an appalling set of figures. I know money's not the whole answer by any means, but it certainly helps to pay for the engineering and land works.
I hope folks quickly get help to sort out the mess, and much though I'm sure she's loved, that your daughter is back in her own home asap.
atb,
M
I can relate to this and wish your Daughter the good fortune of at least getting things sorted in the least painful and prompt manner possible.
My Brother-in-law's cottage in Kent has been flooded ‎3 times in 17 years and as you say, moving out for circa 12 months is the norm.
The first time was no doubt the most painful as they only learnt ‎about the near disaster when footage of their "underwater village" was shown on a US news channel that happened to be showing in the bar they were dinning. They were on their honeymoon!!
Fortunately my wife and I got into the cottage during the early stages and managed to get all the non replaceable items, such as photo albums etc, upstairs.
‎
Yes, every sympathy, remember going to visit my brother in Somerset and stopping at a sheet of water across the road. Waded round a corner and decided that two stuck tractors in the flooded road there was enough warning to decide to visit him another day.
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