Beginner rifle recommendations

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Florida
I'll second the recommendations to buy quality optics----if indeed you'll be using optics. I have used scoped guns and they're quite fun but in reality most of my game (all of my deer) has been taken with iron sights. Likewise I have and enjoy my binos but they're really more of a diversion when the game isn't moving around (meaning during the middle of the day when there just isn't anything coming near the stand)
 

Arya

Settler
May 15, 2013
796
59
40
Norway
Good binos are nice to have, even if your just enjoying a hike :)
I only have old ones (and not really good ones) that I've inherreted, so a good pair is on my wishlist.
 

bowji john

Silver Trader
I'd give a +1 for good 'binos'

Scanning with a rifle mounted scope here in (a rather crowded) UK is frowned upon

Better to do your scanning and deer IDing with bins then use the scope for the aim

If you can afford distance measuring binos - even better - but it doesn't take too much practice to 'guestimate' distance out to 150 m - and at that distance plus or minus 20 m means less than 1 or 2 cm change on point of impact - not too significant for a well placed 'chest' shot
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
66
Greensand Ridge
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EDIT: My reply seems to have become rather long, apologies. Also, apologies if it seems a bit dictatorial and preachy; I am experienced but no expert (there are none?); I just want you to have a good experience of hunting.

I will echo the sentiments in the posts above; the rifle/scope is only the final part of the equation in hunting. Modern rifles and scopes, even at the cheaper-end of the spectrum, are more than capable of the accuracy required to take deer-sized game at realistic ranges (long-range hunting is a bit of a can of worms...)


As with "Bushcrafting", it is easy to focus on the equipment and, in so doing, become distracted from the actual task and the skills it requires. Your rifle needs to function reliably in the conditions and positions you intend to shoot, to deliver accurately a bullet of appropriate construction with enough energy to ensure a clean kill.


Ruger, Howa, Tikka, Sako, CZ, Marlin, Browning, Beretta: I own and shoot firearms from all of these manufacturers and custom made. The only unsalvageable Lemons I have had have been post-Remington Marlins. I bedded my Howa and one of the Tikkas. I have done a lot of trigger-tuning, stock-fitting and "action-slicking" on others: they all shoot and function to my requirements and better. Personally, a Remington wouldnt be my first (or second, nor third...) choice. Savage can be hit and miss, quality-wise, though often salvageable. There are good examples of most rifles, of course, but trends emerge (Rem and Savage not currently flavour of the month).


If you are unlikely to shoot beyond 250m then consider a shorter barrel option. You will sacrifice little in performance but gain in weight-saving and manoueverability. I note you are planning to use a moderator, adding length anyway, and which can offset the recoil and muzzle-blast of a shorter barrel. Likewise, you do not need a heavy-profile barrel: select a light barrelled rifle and the moderator plus good technique will take care of the recoil.


A secondhand gun is always a bit of an unknown: I have several guns that were pre-owned and I have no regrets. Some do not look great through a borescope but still shoot exceptionally well. If these were my target guns, I would be planning ahead for a re-barrel, given the number of rounds shot in quick succession, but as hunting rifles, they usually see only a single shot at a time. Therefore, even if they only have 200 accurate shots left, that is still a lot of deer. I should point out that the specific rifles to which I refer are not barrel-friendly calibres (7WSM for example.)


The question of Calibre is always a tricky one- there is rarely a single, right answer. If you aren't home loading then availablility of factory ammunition is crucial. At a max range of 250m on non-dangerous, deer-sized game, you are not going to have problems with excessive drop or wind drift, nor with inadequate terminal ballistics (within reason.) The excellent 30-06 has been mentioned, but requires a longer action than .308Win and will kick a little more. At sensible hunting ranges the deer will not notice a difference in the two .30 cal bullets, so out of these two, .308Win would be my choice. If you think you might shoot larger animals and/or longer range in the future, 30-06, 300WSM etc. make some sense. It is worth noting that some rifles, eg. Tikka T3, have a standard action length, irrespective of the size of the round.


If you think you might shoot longer ranges in the future, the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets have some advantage over .30 cal (7.62mm) unless much heavier bullets are used in the latter (with knock-on increases in recoil and cost etc.). This is due to the relatively better ballistic coefficient ("slipperiness") of the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets at typical bullet weights, translating into reduced wind-drift and retained energy at range.


6.5mm options would include .260Rem, 6.5x55Swedish, 6.5x47Lapua, 6.5Creedmoor, etc.
7mm options are also numerous: 7x57, 7mm08, 7RM etc. Availability of factory ammo in your area might be a deciding factor.


My general advice to someone setting out on this wonderful journey:


1. Don`t rush to buy a gun (or other kit) Get some experience at a club, ideally with some proper coaching. If you havent shot a reasonably potent centrefire rifle before then you could develop a flinch or other bad habits if a well-meaning shooter lets you "have a go" with a gun that doesn't fit you and which you do not shoot properly.


2. Spend more on the scope and mounts than the rifle. I have never regretted following this old adage. That said, there are some good scopes (with lifetime warranty) at lower prices than previously available. Don`t buy more magnification than you need. 6-8x mag is adequate for most hunting, less if solely woodland stalking, especially driven game. Lower mag means lighter, brighter scope for the money. At most hunting distances, you wont be dialling for wind or drop so exposed/tactical turrets are an unnecessary liability.


3. Practice shooting in field conditions: this is crucial. Range-time is all well and good but there are no shooting benches in the woods nor on the hill! Taking part in competitions that stress positional shooting under time-pressure and with movement is fun and a close simulation of hunting. Learn to shoot using improvised supports, sitting, kneeling, standing and with sticks (quad sticks are incredibly stable and can help keep you shooting above foliage.) Shooting Cinemas can help with this aspect of training. If it is likely you will be shooting running game, it is essential you practice to learn the required lead and technique. In all cases, be mindful of the gun-safety commandments. Dry firing at home can help you to get to know your trigger and how to build a good shooting position.


4. Practice with rimfire club guns, if an option. Learning to shoot a deer-capable rifle is not cheap if you are getting through a lot of rounds. Starting with a rimfire is much cheaper and teaches a lot of the fundamentals of good marksmanship. Ultimately, though, you need to train with the gun and ammunition with which you will hunt.


5. Keep learning, analyse your successes and failures. Keep a log/diary. Dont stop learning and trying to improve but don't get obsessed with kit and upgrades. Sticking with one gun and scope combo yields dividends: "Beware the man with one rifle!" My first centrefire fullbore rifle was a factory firearm with a secondhand Leupold scope. Without modification it has harvested much game and is still used in comps from 50 to 1200yds, even taking Silver at a national level meeting in the McQueens one year (against a lot of custom-rifles.) It is still going strong, sub-MOA accuracy -despite what the borescope says. When it finally looses accuracy, I will rebarrel, and so on until it becomes my son`s or daughter`s gun.


6. Buy some good binoculars: you will use them far more than your scope/rifle. Don`t be seduced by high magnification and needless features. As with your scope, decent exit-pupil is important because much hunting is done at dawn-and-dusk but don't forget that big objective (56mm etc.) also means bigger and heavier bino. You can use binos to focus through cover- this is a really useful technique for woodland hunting. Learn to recognise the subtle texture of fur, visible through a gap in the foliage- this may be all you see of a deer before it sees you. I like binos with a built-in rangefinder- this can be used to hone your own ability to estimate range by taking the binos on a walk when not hunting.


7. Buy a cheap anemometer and use it calibrate your own assessment of windspeed (Arguably not necessary for closer ranges but don't underestimate the effect of wind on bullet.) Bullet drop should be a known variable if you know the range and you have done your homework with your hunting set-up, but wind is not. Reading the wind and compensating for it is vital skill to avoid poor shot placement/misses and to avoid being scented.


8. Practice stalking and moving through the landscape without alerting its inhabitants. Reading the wind direction, avoiding sky-lining, use of cover etc. Electronic ear defenders can be turned-up to exaggerate the sounds of your footfall and contact with brush- this can also highlight how noisy your clothing may be. You can practice this without owning a gun.


9. Know your quarry: identification, behaviour, anatomy, seasons, diseases and welfare. Learn to visualise the animal in 3D: they rarely present broadside to the hunter. What is the likely path of your bullet through the animal for a given aiming point on its surface. You will need to know how to gralloch your animal- though I think there may be compulsory training in Norway? You can start stalking your quarry without owning a gun: get in range and see if you have a safe, clear shot, realistic extraction prospect, shooting position, etc.


10. Respect your quarry, know your limits. Learn what to do if things go wrong and your shot is not perfectly placed. Don`t pressure yourself to bag an animal or you will hurry, take risks and remove the enjoyment of the challenge. A great outing doesn't necessarily have to include a kill. I do not know the system in Norway. In the UK we don't have "tags" or quotas, yet there are plenty of deer, rabbits etc. This means I can hunt a lot (I hunt most weeks), without pressure to fill the freezer (I have three, they are full of game, though I do not bring a deer back each time!)


Most importantly, be safe and enjoy it! I love hunting- it is a primal, instinctive activity that is at my core. Not everyone has this, and so they may not enjoy hunting. It is, after all, ending the life of a beautiful animal.


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Nice rifle. 45/70?

If it were mine it would sport a lower mounted and smaller scope sanse turrets. Clearly whatever works for you though.

And to think some folk would still put a moderator on such a rifle!

K
 

Robson Valley

On a new journey
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
Arya: sounds like you have your own private range all sorted out. Shooting from the living room is absolutely decadent! Love the plan!
I'm still convinced that complete familiarity with the rifle is essential. Details like cleaning after a soaking hunt in the rain, barrel cleaning.
Just being familiar with shooting. Then a hunt is almost familiar.

The day is going really well, got a few grouse.
Mountain snowstorm and visibility is 20 yards ( I'm sure you know what that's like).
Might as well go home. Clean guns, clean birds. All parts of the same adventure.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
Good binos are nice to have, even if your just enjoying a hike :)
I only have old ones (and not really good ones) that I've inherreted, so a good pair is on my wishlist.

Absolutely. As I said, they're just fun to have even if you don't use them for the hunt itself.

I'd give a +1 for good 'binos'

Scanning with a rifle mounted scope here in (a rather crowded) UK is frowned upon

Better to do your scanning and deer IDing with bins then use the scope for the aim

If you can afford distance measuring binos - even better - but it doesn't take too much practice to 'guestimate' distance out to 150 m - and at that distance plus or minus 20 m means less than 1 or 2 cm change on point of impact - not too significant for a well placed 'chest' shot

Yes. Presuming you actually scan with optics. I usually use the naked eye and my other senses (I normally hear deer before I ever see them) At any rate I'd never scan using the rifle scope as I said I've killed all my deer with iron sights anyway. I really do like a scope for squirrels though (at least when using a rifle) but again, I usually hear them before I see them.
 
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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,296
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Something I would recommend is that ou buy the best possible hear protectors. The best. The style that covers your ear, with amplification of weak sounds like talk.

Myself, I was a tough young man, only used cotton in the ears.
Now I wear a nice pair of high tech Danish hearing aids, in both ears, if I need to sit and listen to a lecture or similar. Or want to hear what people say in a bar or busy restaurant.
 

xavierdoc

Full Member
Apr 5, 2006
309
29
51
SW Wales
Nice rifle. 45/70?

If it were mine it would sport a lower mounted and smaller scope sanse turrets. Clearly whatever works for you though.

And to think some folk would still put a moderator on such a rifle!

K

Yes, 45-70Govt.

Sadly scope can't go lower without some tinkering to remove the rib and the eyepiece bell might impede access to the breech. The elevation turret is actually an addition, which I fitted because my 460gr boolit drops like a mortar so holding-over becomes unreliable (zeroed 2in high at 100m hits 20in low at 250m).

However, it's a woodland/lowland gun and the last three deer were under 150m, taken with a faster-moving flatter trajectory 300gr bullet, so I'm toying with going to iron sights or losing the turret. I have irons on other guns and can shoot them well, just not sure about low-light and dark fur. My responsibility to the quarry outweighs my aesthetic preferences!

Would look better without the scope but it's hunting, not a fashion parade!
 

Robson Valley

On a new journey
Nov 24, 2014
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That was oversight! Peltor makes good muffs.
Trap shooters using the active noise cancelling muffs claim they work really well for their slim design.
I shot with guys using both plugs and muffs. I added layers inside my muffs from unlimited handgun days.

Maybe age, maybe gunshots and explosions. I need closed caption TV. Town Hall meetings? Forget it.
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
66
Greensand Ridge
Yes, 45-70Govt.

Sadly scope can't go lower without some tinkering to remove the rib and the eyepiece bell might impede access to the breech. The elevation turret is actually an addition, which I fitted because my 460gr boolit drops like a mortar so holding-over becomes unreliable (zeroed 2in high at 100m hits 20in low at 250m).

However, it's a woodland/lowland gun and the last three deer were under 150m, taken with a faster-moving flatter trajectory 300gr bullet, so I'm toying with going to iron sights or losing the turret. I have irons on other guns and can shoot them well, just not sure about low-light and dark fur. My responsibility to the quarry outweighs my aesthetic preferences!

Would look better without the scope but it's hunting, not a fashion parade!

Yes, I hear the "function over form" argument a lot but noting your comments and more pertinently approach to photographing a rifle in the field I struggle to believe your don't hold a certain aesthetic as dear as you do the principal of humane and sustainable hunting with the grooved bore. I certainly do and won't be persuaded otherwise.

Clearly a dead deer won't know it's been killed with a utilitarian rifle & scope setup but the shooter most certainly has capacity to appreciate such. Therefore if my soul-life passion for hunting is given of greater fulfilment for having warm wood, sleek mounts/rings and a scope with less than 1mm scope barrel clearance that's the way I'm going to the grave!

All the best.

K
 

xavierdoc

Full Member
Apr 5, 2006
309
29
51
SW Wales
That was oversight! Peltor makes good muffs.
Trap shooters using the active noise cancelling muffs claim they work really well for their slim design.
I shot with guys using both plugs and muffs. I added layers inside my muffs from unlimited handgun days.

Maybe age, maybe gunshots and explosions. I need closed caption TV. Town Hall meetings? Forget it.

I try to look after my hearing but one can only attenuate conductive sound transmission (plugs and muffs); it's not practically possible to reduce bone conduction. Moderators are a godsend in this respect.

The active defenders I use cause an interesting phenomenon when I hunt with my un-moderated 45-70:

They cancel the loud report of the shot, but amplify the distinctive "THWACK!" of the bullet's impact with the deer and then the re-echo of the shot is amplified (bring below the cut-off threshold) as it returns from nearby tree-lines and hills.

It's quite odd when you first hear it, as it all seems backwards. Haven't heard it with smaller calibres but most of those are moderated (so no ear defenders :eek:).
 

xavierdoc

Full Member
Apr 5, 2006
309
29
51
SW Wales
Yes, I hear the "function over form" argument a lot but noting your comments and more pertinently approach to photographing a rifle in the field I struggle to believe your don't hold a certain aesthetic as dear as you do the principal of humane and sustainable hunting with the grooved bore. I certainly do and won't be persuaded otherwise.

Clearly a dead deer won't know it's been killed with a utilitarian rifle & scope setup but the shooter most certainly has capacity to appreciate such. Therefore if my soul-life passion for hunting is given of greater fulfilment for having warm wood, sleek mounts/rings and a scope with less than 1mm scope barrel clearance that's the way I'm going to the grave!

All the best.

K

I'm sure you're right! Otherwise I probably wouldn't own a No.1 and use wooden sticks, leather cheek-rise and cast-boolits of my own design!

The scope is actually quite small- 1inch tube and 33mm objective. I was going to put a 1-4x or 1.5-5x but they were needed elsewhere.

I suspect it will wear iron-sights soon enough.
 

Arya

Settler
May 15, 2013
796
59
40
Norway
Arya, can you bowhunt there?
No, that is illegal here. There was a test going of for a while, to consider if it should be legal, but it recieved so much protest from animal welfare organisations that even the testing was stopped quickly.
 

Robson Valley

On a new journey
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
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McBride, BC
NOTE to you all: 2.20.17

Remington Arms is recalling modern Rem 700 and MODEL SEVEN as the XMP trigger mechanism is now well-known to function spontaneously.
 

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