An entirely new knife.............
- Thread starter British Red
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I do fancy a Nessy at some point - but I rather worry thats just for "historical" reasons rather than usability reasons.
I love this being called a kitchen knife!
If it ends up 50% usable kitchen knife, 50% precision woodworking tool, then Stu has nailed exactly what I want! A knife for the the purposes I use it for!
Red
I love this being called a kitchen knife!
If it ends up 50% usable kitchen knife, 50% precision woodworking tool, then Stu has nailed exactly what I want! A knife for the the purposes I use it for!
Red
the Ness to me looks a usefull kitchen knife because of its wide blade
similer to my fave Veg chopper
also looks good for scraping and lots of control with hand grips on the blade etc
all speculation at the moment as ive never tryed one but intend to rectify this as soon as i finish my Woodlore clone (again to try it)
main diff i see needed for a more bushcraft knife than the std kitchen GP is a bit more strength mainly given by thicker blades
the woodlore is the GP veg knife style
The nessmuk is similer to a butcher style
The Goucho kinfe is a Chefs knife style
the Redloremuk
is a more fillet style
on a practical point would the lanyard hole bored to fit a Fire steel as a 'T' bar help boring ?????
ATB
Duncan
similer to my fave Veg chopper
also looks good for scraping and lots of control with hand grips on the blade etc
all speculation at the moment as ive never tryed one but intend to rectify this as soon as i finish my Woodlore clone (again to try it)
main diff i see needed for a more bushcraft knife than the std kitchen GP is a bit more strength mainly given by thicker blades
the woodlore is the GP veg knife style
The nessmuk is similer to a butcher style
The Goucho kinfe is a Chefs knife style
the Redloremuk
is a more fillet styleon a practical point would the lanyard hole bored to fit a Fire steel as a 'T' bar help boring ?????
ATB
Duncan
looing very good indeed. the steak knife bush craft knife is one i've been after for a while. still waiting for that nice allan blade bloke to turn up the one i paid for however long ago it was.
on mine though, the spine is perfectly straight with no drop. i like it like that as i seem to cut more square holes that i bore round ones. i reckon the size is about perfect. oh and i want a full flat grind, with a convex terminal bevel. none of that scandi nonsense thank you! :swordfigh
as to the confusion with the grinds and their names...
full flat generally refers to a knife that is triangular in cross section, as it is ground fully from the edge to the spine. this is the easiest way to get maximum strength for mass.
a scandi grind is nominally flat, but many are ground on very big wheels so they're actually ever so slightly hollow. some of the ws-woodlores were done like that.
the zero edge or zero bevel refers to a "theoretically true" scandi grind that has no secondary bevel. many people will assert that most sensible scandavians don't use it, but that they use a tiny secondary bevel to make the edge more robust.
my feeling is, give a load of razor sharp true/pure/theory scandis to a load of scouts and see how long the edges last. the slight-convex scandi is definately the way forward for that application. sharpening as meditation quickly becomes sharpening a real chore
cheers, and.
to turn up the one i paid for however long ago it was.on mine though, the spine is perfectly straight with no drop. i like it like that as i seem to cut more square holes that i bore round ones. i reckon the size is about perfect. oh and i want a full flat grind, with a convex terminal bevel. none of that scandi nonsense thank you! :swordfigh
as to the confusion with the grinds and their names...
full flat generally refers to a knife that is triangular in cross section, as it is ground fully from the edge to the spine. this is the easiest way to get maximum strength for mass.
a scandi grind is nominally flat, but many are ground on very big wheels so they're actually ever so slightly hollow. some of the ws-woodlores were done like that.
the zero edge or zero bevel refers to a "theoretically true" scandi grind that has no secondary bevel. many people will assert that most sensible scandavians don't use it, but that they use a tiny secondary bevel to make the edge more robust.
my feeling is, give a load of razor sharp true/pure/theory scandis to a load of scouts and see how long the edges last. the slight-convex scandi is definately the way forward for that application. sharpening as meditation quickly becomes sharpening a real chore
cheers, and.
well, it's ok for peeling. but when it comes to slicing veggies best get a goalie in to catch the slices as they snap off and go flying!
cheers, and.
Many people will say that, and they will all be wrong.
Its not a question of what grind you use, its a question of how you grind a particular grind.
Full flats can be too thick or two thin to be practical as can convex, hollow and scandi or any grind for that matter.
sargey said:well, it's ok for peeling. but when it comes to slicing veggies best get a goalie in to catch the slices as they snap off and go flying!
cheers, and.
point was the profiles are similer to their kitchen counterparts
for Bushcraft we strengthen by thicker blades this obviously compromises some uses but increases others
im in the process of making a 3/4 scale woodlore and thats 3mm thick and almost identical to my utility veg and feels very nice but is still thicker
ATB
Duncan
Some great points raised about edges and grinds...British Red said:D*** straight it'll be scandy! Didn't realise zero ground meant "full flat". How would you get a choice of angle on a full flat though? I thought zero ground meant "without a secondary bevel"?
Showing my ignorance on "knify" terminology here so I'll go shtum!
Red
The way I see a scandi grind is this...
Perfectly flat with no secondary bevel...
My general rule of thumb is that a bevel ground at twice the thickness of stock will give you a 30deg angle, 15 degrees per side.
But... We are not after a 30deg standard here... Red is happy to trade "some of the heft for more of the deft" (first time I have used that phrase and I like it
)... The grind will be deeper than 6mm, not sure how much deeper yet but I don't see an angle of 20deg as a worry on a knife of this type... Even a little less, a good steel with a good ht and a good grind, I wouldn't be worried
stuart m said:Some great points raised about edges and grinds...
The way I see a scandi grind is this...
Perfectly flat with no secondary bevel...
My general rule of thumb is that a bevel ground at twice the thickness of stock will give you a 30deg angle, 15 degrees per side.
But... We are not after a 30deg standard here... Red is happy to trade "some of the heft for more of the deft" (first time I have used that phrase and I like it
That, as they say, is the puppy! You certainly have got the intention there stu. I can't comment usefully on the grind angle other than - "good for fine slicing and not too fragile".
Never tell an expert how to do his job!
Red
British Red said:
Jeepers! Sharp then? That's almost in straight razor territory
I was going to make a comment about not wanting to take that as my only knife - but this is Red we're talking about... Don't think you travel light in the sharps department do you?
Well,
Not exactly "heavy" either - I just use my knife differently I guess.
My Lee Reeves double bit axe weighs 500g, but I've comfortably split 8" logs with it - if I feel a single bit coming on, then the Cegga axe is a massive 650g. You genuinely can shave with either of them
If you add a folding saw - I'm currently using the scarily named "Silky Pocket Boy" - a tiny kerf on it means it easily out saws a Laplander and weighs virtually nothing. But with a Reeves, a pocket boy and this knife I suspect I could accomplish most things and a total weight of under a kilo!
I totally understand its not everyones cup of tea. I make pot hangers with an axe or saw a lot of the time - a lot would baton their knife. Neither is right or wrong in my head - I love hearing other people go "yep love it" or "no, hate it". I can't wait to hear Weavers comments and some of the other US contingent - their view of knives is often very different again!
Red
Not exactly "heavy" either - I just use my knife differently I guess.
My Lee Reeves double bit axe weighs 500g, but I've comfortably split 8" logs with it - if I feel a single bit coming on, then the Cegga axe is a massive 650g
. You genuinely can shave with either of themIf you add a folding saw - I'm currently using the scarily named "Silky Pocket Boy" - a tiny kerf on it means it easily out saws a Laplander and weighs virtually nothing. But with a Reeves, a pocket boy and this knife I suspect I could accomplish most things and a total weight of under a kilo!
I totally understand its not everyones cup of tea. I make pot hangers with an axe or saw a lot of the time - a lot would baton their knife. Neither is right or wrong in my head - I love hearing other people go "yep love it" or "no, hate it". I can't wait to hear Weavers comments and some of the other US contingent - their view of knives is often very different again!
Red
I carry similar (although the axe is just a GB) and if I'm honest the knife is the least used. Pretty much restricted to food prep. The 'economy of effort' afforded by an axe is rather attractiveBritish Red said:Well,
Not exactly "heavy" either - I just use my knife differently I guess.
My Lee Reeves double bit axe weighs 500g, but I've comfortably split 8" logs with it - if I feel a single bit coming on, then the Cegga axe is a massive 650g
If you add a folding saw - I'm currently using the scarily named "Silky Pocket Boy" - a tiny kerf on it means it easily out saws a Laplander and weighs virtually nothing. But with a Reeves, a pocket boy and this knife I suspect I could accomplish most things and a total weight of under a kilo!
I totally understand its not everyones cup of tea. I make pot hangers with an axe or saw a lot of the time - a lot would baton their knife. Neither is right or wrong in my head - I love hearing other people go "yep love it" or "no, hate it". I can't wait to hear Weavers comments and some of the other US contingent - their view of knives is often very different again!
Red
Thats kind of what drove my decision on this knife Rhodri - I want a knife thats optimised for the tasks I do with it most of the time. If I ever find myself sans chopper and saw, I'll still have a knife thats every bit as capable as a Mora - and thats good enough for Mors and the Woddlore school . However, for what I really use it for (food prep, plant gathering and fine wood work) I hope it will be "deigned for the task".
I started thinking this when carving with a very fine bladed Frosts knife - wicked point and about a 2" blade. I was sitting there thinking "this is such a handy tool and so precise - I wish my belt knife was more like it". Then I thought more about the kitchen knives I like to use (a few have spotted that influence) and so it went on!
I doubt I'll ever have to "wrestle bears" with my knife, and if I plan to go shelter building etc. I'll have my axe and saw...sooo...the "precision field knife" was conceived (lousy name...must think of a better one)
Red
. However, for what I really use it for (food prep, plant gathering and fine wood work) I hope it will be "deigned for the task". I started thinking this when carving with a very fine bladed Frosts knife - wicked point and about a 2" blade. I was sitting there thinking "this is such a handy tool and so precise - I wish my belt knife was more like it". Then I thought more about the kitchen knives I like to use (a few have spotted that influence) and so it went on!
I doubt I'll ever have to "wrestle bears" with my knife, and if I plan to go shelter building etc. I'll have my axe and saw...sooo...the "precision field knife" was conceived (lousy name...must think of a better one)
Red
I don't think the "PFK" sounds too badBritish Red said:Thats kind of what drove my decision on this knife Rhodri - I want a knife thats optimised for the tasks I do with it most of the time. If I ever find myself sans chopper and saw, I'll still have a knife thats every bit as capable as a Mora - and thats good enough for Mors and the Woddlore school
I started thinking this when carving with a very fine bladed Frosts knife - wicked point and about a 2" blade. I was sitting there thinking "this is such a handy tool and so precise - I wish my belt knife was more like it". Then I thought more about the kitchen knives I like to use (a few have spotted that influence) and so it went on!
I doubt I'll ever have to "wrestle bears" with my knife, and if I plan to go shelter building etc. I'll have my axe and saw...sooo...the "precision field knife" was conceived (lousy name...must think of a better one)
Red
Hmm theres a good anagram game possible here
The British (Utility) Red Knife
Or
Stuart Mitchell Advanced Knife
Or
Stuart Mitchell Ergonomic Grip Knife
or
The
R ed Advanced Knife or RAK (and Ruin)
The British (Utility) Red Knife
Or
Stuart Mitchell Advanced Knife
Or
Stuart Mitchell Ergonomic Grip Knife
or
The
R ed Advanced Knife or RAK (and Ruin)
Hmmmm it needs a name but.... I think I'll pass on them.
Precision Utility Knife (PUK) its better than Field .... never mind
Red
Precision Utility Knife (PUK) its better than Field .... never mind
Red
