What is an 'ancient grain'?
- Thread starter mrcharly
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It's a funny one this; oats seem to have been tares in the crops of the middle east, but by the time the grain crops of wheat and barley and rye came to Northern Europe, the climate favoured the oats and it's there that real domestication of the oat comes about.
Oats thrive where wheat most certainly does not, and though it's not as rich a crop, it does grow in cold damp and unsunny climates.
I think it ought to be included in Ancient grains, but an awful lot of the ancient grain hype just now is for grains that are somehow exotic or bird food in the west, but commonplace peasant food in the third world, rather than truly 'ancient' grains.
M
Oats thrive where wheat most certainly does not, and though it's not as rich a crop, it does grow in cold damp and unsunny climates.
I think it ought to be included in Ancient grains, but an awful lot of the ancient grain hype just now is for grains that are somehow exotic or bird food in the west, but commonplace peasant food in the third world, rather than truly 'ancient' grains.
M
I'm a retired botany prof. For some decades, I did a lengthy set of economic botany lectures.
The "ancient grain" list is somewhat arbitrary, put oats on it if you wish.
Wheat alone is 14 species in three genetic groups. Mundane characters such as improved
stem strength and eash of threshing had great value thousands of years ago.
They still do.
Not all grains grow everywhere, climatic conditions dictate that.
Me? I want to add maize to the list. Possibly not all that "ancient" but
certainly the staple in the Americas. By the time that Columbus showed up,
flint corn, flour corn, dent corn, sweet corn and popcorn were grown in very large quantities
subject to regional climate.
I've eaten everything on that list and more. Which ones are your favorites?
I have mine, you have yours and that's as good as it gets.
The "ancient grain" list is somewhat arbitrary, put oats on it if you wish.
Wheat alone is 14 species in three genetic groups. Mundane characters such as improved
stem strength and eash of threshing had great value thousands of years ago.
They still do.
Not all grains grow everywhere, climatic conditions dictate that.
Me? I want to add maize to the list. Possibly not all that "ancient" but
certainly the staple in the Americas. By the time that Columbus showed up,
flint corn, flour corn, dent corn, sweet corn and popcorn were grown in very large quantities
subject to regional climate.
I've eaten everything on that list and more. Which ones are your favorites?
I have mine, you have yours and that's as good as it gets.
It's certainly been domesticated for a few thousand years. To the best of my knowledge it's the only grain that's been domesticated so long there are no longer any varieties that can grow wild.
All of the (wild) cross pollinations have been repeated for the wheats.
Afghani grasses no less.
For maize, teosinte was long thought to be the progenitor but
cross pollination results never bred true for several generations.
On again and off again, I read snippets about discoveries of ancient/wild maize patches
but if true, nobody has cared to do much. Too bad, as wild-type drought resistance
would be a prize these days, just as high yield was so many centuries ago.
Found a Quinoa cookbook a year ago with superb recipes = so many of the things that
I like to prepare but sub quinoa. Very well written, common ingredients.
Cooking With Quinoa by Rena Patten. New Holland/Australia/2011.
ISBN 97817 42570 556
Afghani grasses no less.
For maize, teosinte was long thought to be the progenitor but
cross pollination results never bred true for several generations.
On again and off again, I read snippets about discoveries of ancient/wild maize patches
but if true, nobody has cared to do much. Too bad, as wild-type drought resistance
would be a prize these days, just as high yield was so many centuries ago.
Found a Quinoa cookbook a year ago with superb recipes = so many of the things that
I like to prepare but sub quinoa. Very well written, common ingredients.
Cooking With Quinoa by Rena Patten. New Holland/Australia/2011.
ISBN 97817 42570 556
Me too, I have a spelled loaf on permanent order twice a week from the local "real" baker
Our own native 'grains' include things like the wood millet, the pendulous rush and the plantains. Mostly we call them famine foods though.
Oats and Barley grow well in our damp cool climate too though, so the wild grains are for choice but not necessity.
M
Oats and Barley grow well in our damp cool climate too though, so the wild grains are for choice but not necessity.
M
Is it worth your time and trouble to harvest those wild things?
I see that a great many "artisan breads" have all sorts of grain and seed additives
other than wheat flour.
Was a New Year's Resolution one time = never buy the same bread twice.
I like toasted bread in the morning. Some of that artisan stuff just plain stinks.
Here, much of the popularity is a backlash against the baked flour and water foam called "bread".
Sadly, one popular bakery admitted to me that their doughs are premade and frozen.
Thaw. Scale. Bake. Humpf, says I.
I see that a great many "artisan breads" have all sorts of grain and seed additives
other than wheat flour.
Was a New Year's Resolution one time = never buy the same bread twice.
I like toasted bread in the morning. Some of that artisan stuff just plain stinks.
Here, much of the popularity is a backlash against the baked flour and water foam called "bread".
Sadly, one popular bakery admitted to me that their doughs are premade and frozen.
Thaw. Scale. Bake. Humpf, says I.
In season it's very simple, and they're tasty too. They grind up easily into flour, though they can be eaten pretty much as soon as they're winnowed.
The wood millet is common in the woodlands around here; it's like mini flax seeds. Plantain can be prolific especially if the plants are growing in sunshine with enough water, and the penduous rush produces masses of seeds. My husband brought me back a carrier bag full from a walk last Summer...took him ten minutes to gather. It took me longer to winnow them
We can also eat the docken seeds, a bit like buckwheat but smaller grains.
Lots of wild pea type things grow too, not just the ones from the Near East. Bitter, Common, Tufted vetches for instance....just mind and eat them green.
cheers,
Toddy
The wood millet is common in the woodlands around here; it's like mini flax seeds. Plantain can be prolific especially if the plants are growing in sunshine with enough water, and the penduous rush produces masses of seeds. My husband brought me back a carrier bag full from a walk last Summer...took him ten minutes to gather. It took me longer to winnow them
We can also eat the docken seeds, a bit like buckwheat but smaller grains.
Lots of wild pea type things grow too, not just the ones from the Near East. Bitter, Common, Tufted vetches for instance....just mind and eat them green.
cheers,
Toddy
Thanks Toddy
My bread formula is quite generous in that I can substitute 20-25% (160-200g) of just
about any grain and get an edible product. I've grown amaranth but the plants are very weak in the stems
and harsh mountain winds (my garden!) knocked them flat, one after another.
My regional geography is rock, water and forest (google McBride BC).
Nothing that I can think of as an edible wild grain-like plant.
But for native wild fruit, no shortage of variety either in open areas or as forest understory/ground cover.
Raspberry, strawberry, chokecherries (syrup & wine),
Serviceberry (aka Saskatoons), 3 kinds of blueberries (fruit pies).
Wild Pacific crabapple on the sea coast.
In a good crop year, I can pick 5-7lb/hr Saskatoons for fruit pies.
My bread formula is quite generous in that I can substitute 20-25% (160-200g) of just
about any grain and get an edible product. I've grown amaranth but the plants are very weak in the stems
and harsh mountain winds (my garden!) knocked them flat, one after another.
My regional geography is rock, water and forest (google McBride BC).
Nothing that I can think of as an edible wild grain-like plant.
But for native wild fruit, no shortage of variety either in open areas or as forest understory/ground cover.
Raspberry, strawberry, chokecherries (syrup & wine),
Serviceberry (aka Saskatoons), 3 kinds of blueberries (fruit pies).
Wild Pacific crabapple on the sea coast.
In a good crop year, I can pick 5-7lb/hr Saskatoons for fruit pies.
I grew amaranth here; it's a jaggy pain to winnow when we really don't get enough drying sunshine here. Didn't get much of a root either.
We have no shortage of fruits. Our temperate climate means that most hedgerows produce fruiting bushes that no one bothers to harvest simply because we have so many cultivated varieties too. I was still picking wild raspberries a week ago, found a small handful today as well. Brambles, rosehips, rowans and elderberries are common; pears, apples, cherries, etc., are prolific in season. The smaller fruits, like the blaeberries are again, common in some areas and prolific when in season.
As for the ancient grains; it's estimated that there are over 20,000 species of edible plants in the world, and that twenty species provide 90% of our edible crops.....that's a lot of food that might be worth trying
cheers,
Toddy
We have no shortage of fruits. Our temperate climate means that most hedgerows produce fruiting bushes that no one bothers to harvest simply because we have so many cultivated varieties too. I was still picking wild raspberries a week ago, found a small handful today as well. Brambles, rosehips, rowans and elderberries are common; pears, apples, cherries, etc., are prolific in season. The smaller fruits, like the blaeberries are again, common in some areas and prolific when in season.
As for the ancient grains; it's estimated that there are over 20,000 species of edible plants in the world, and that twenty species provide 90% of our edible crops.....that's a lot of food that might be worth trying
cheers,
Toddy
We had serious frost for 3 nights throughout the region in early June.
Devastating effect on the wild fruit crop and my grapes for that matter.
I like to go into the winter with 20lbs of the Saskatoon berries, cleaned,
washed and frozen in 800g/pie size lots. I drove around in early August
but the crops of everything were pathetic. I like the blue berries (Vaccinium sp)
but my lips puff up if I try to eat them raw. Cooked is OK.
On the really down side, the poor berry crops makes it really hard for the bears
to prepare for winter hibernation. We have both blacks and Grizzlys here.
Consequently, there were far more confrontations in Sept/Oct. than usual.
The bears don't come into the village but the cougars, lynx and bobcats do in the winter.
There are resident groups of deer in the village that nose around in flower beds, I find footprints in the
snow on my front steps and piles of "beans" in the front yard.
The Dept of Highways usually leave the winter road kills (mostly deer, some moose, the odd elk)
in the ditches for the critters. Even the eagles and Ravens get a share!
But at the end of the week, I know what's in the bread that I make.
Not terribly experimental except for herbs in focaccia and fougasse.
Devastating effect on the wild fruit crop and my grapes for that matter.
I like to go into the winter with 20lbs of the Saskatoon berries, cleaned,
washed and frozen in 800g/pie size lots. I drove around in early August
but the crops of everything were pathetic. I like the blue berries (Vaccinium sp)
but my lips puff up if I try to eat them raw. Cooked is OK.
On the really down side, the poor berry crops makes it really hard for the bears
to prepare for winter hibernation. We have both blacks and Grizzlys here.
Consequently, there were far more confrontations in Sept/Oct. than usual.
The bears don't come into the village but the cougars, lynx and bobcats do in the winter.
There are resident groups of deer in the village that nose around in flower beds, I find footprints in the
snow on my front steps and piles of "beans" in the front yard.
The Dept of Highways usually leave the winter road kills (mostly deer, some moose, the odd elk)
in the ditches for the critters. Even the eagles and Ravens get a share!
But at the end of the week, I know what's in the bread that I make.
Not terribly experimental except for herbs in focaccia and fougasse.