Wasps or Bees ?

[21st century pict]

I went out for a hike yesterday round my usual spots, in one of the sand quarries a small bank had collapsed (very fresh ) where the sand martins nest In the summer, being the nosey type and armed with my torch, look what I found on the roof at the back of one tunnel above a old martin nest Bees or wasps hibernating . Most of the tunnels must be around 2 or 3 feet long but there was only about 5 or 6 inches left of this one, I got a couple of pictures but I don’t think the bees will survive and all I could do was block the entrance with a small stone and a handful of sand to stop the rain getting in, I left a small hole at the top. I doubted if the bees will make the spring but I will keep a watch on the hole over winter.


Small stone top left blocking tunnel.

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I don’t think the bank never mind the Bees will last to spring.

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I’ve just got a rubbish 3 mp camera phone so no good images sorry about that.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Them is bees them be.

 

[Toddy]

If the bank gets sunshine they'll come out of their torpor a bit and might move backwards into a dryer, weatherproof area though.
It's the cold that kind of 'seizes' them, but the wet will kill them.

Good to see the photos

cheers,
Toddy

 

[robin wood]

not easy to judge from low res image but they look quite like bee flies to me, very big eyes and look like large single wings, could easily be wrong. If they are bees then clearly not honey bees as that would be much larger colony on wax so solitary mining bees? Not sure if they overwinter in groups like this. Interesting find, I'd love to see a better pic so we could get a decent ID.

 

[lannyman8]

beezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

i had some in my garden this summer, burrowed into the mud on the floor of all places where it gets wet....not seen them for a long time though, i hope they moved on and are still alive some other place...

nice to see them, thanks for the pic's....

regards.

chris.

 

[Harvestman]

I'm confident that those are bees. Don't look like bee flies (which aren't social anyway) to me.

 

[Deaner666]

They're bees. Wasps don't hibernate (only the queen). I'm guessing they're not solitary bees as there's a few. Nowhere near enough to survive the winter though, especially if they're not on combs and don't have any stores of honey. They won't last long at all. Probably the remnants of a swarm that didn't make it.

 

[21st century pict]

Hi toddy
Well here’s hoping but the sunshine thing’s might be a long shot, at least the chances of getting wet has reduced so long as it stays below zero.
Cheers all

48 hours later.

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[Toddy]

Ah, that's a shame
Deaner666 might well be spot on with their origins........though somewhere I mind something about bees hibernating in groups in favoured sites even if they are solitary........like ladybugs.

We've had brilliant sunshine interspersed with snow all morning Worst of all, it keeps half melting and then the snow comes back on again. It's supposed to freeze tonight too -4degC.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Stanleythecat]

Easiest way to tell is as Robin suggests, the number of wings i.e. Diptera (flies) one pair and Hymenoptera (bees/ants/wasps) two pairs. The most significant difference of the hymenoptera is their 'waist', whereas the flies abdomen is fused to its thorax bees/ants/wasps have an articulatable abdomen at the waist.

Looking at the far left the insect could well be a fly of some kind.

Leo

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I've changed my mind. Following some suggestions that they may be some kind of flies I wanted to take that further..............the eyes are more fly like than those of bees but the most characteristic thing missing from them is antennae, bees have medium length angled antennae & most flies have little short ones much lower down on the head. The insects on the photo do not have them ( the photo is blurred but I think we would see the antennae ) so they could be hoverflies & the species closest in appearence I could find is the Eristalis tenax..... http://www.commanster.eu/commanster/Insects/Flies/WFlies/Eristalis.tenax2.jpg


They could be some other species of fly.... my knowledge is very limited but for me they are not bees.

 

[21st century pict]

Now you’ve got me scratching my head again! That’s the odd thing they did looked a bit like both, but didn’t look quite right ether way if you know what I mean. I was wondering if they were some type of honey bee?
They looked about 10-15mm long.But they could easily bee (sorry no pun intended) hover flies.
Fat lot of help I am.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Apparently female Eristalis tenax.do hibernate in groups.....here's a photo of some in a sandstone cave http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/photography/cats/18202.jpg

 

[21st century pict]

Now that’s more like it.

 

[21st century pict]

Just reading up on Wikipedia.
I hope they are just honey bees ,I don’t fancy a dose of that human intestinal Myisasis, rat tailed maggot sounds lovely.

 

[Mesquite]

reported

 

[robin wood]

Apparently female Eristalis tenax.do hibernate in groups.....here's a photo of some in a sandstone cave http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/photography/cats/18202.jpg

Well that is looking quite similar, visually, group size, and habitat. Good detective work.

compare to honey bees

and here is a challenge for those that are sure they are bees. Do a google image search and find me one picture of a group of bees in similar circumstance without comb. First thing a swarm does having moved to new home is start building comb and they don't like damp places. Or find me details of some of the solitary bees that hibernate communally.

 

[Harvestman]

Right, I'm one of those that said they were bees. So let me see, am I still sure? Well, I didn't know that Eristalis species hibernate communally, for one thing. And Robin Wood makes an excellent point about the lack of comb. He also helpfully posted pictures of bees and the hoverflies. Looking at the pictures above, the eyes do look more like the flies than the bees, and the insect on the left of the fuzzy picture has a more pointed wingtip, again like a fly.

On balance therefore, I am going to put my hand up and say "I was wrong". I now think that they are Eristalis spp hoverflies, although I'm not going to go as far as to say definitely E. tenax, since there are several very similar species.

Once again, I learn something. Thanks guys.

 

[21st century pict]

Obviously I need a better Camera ,but cheers for all the input guys .

 

[British Red]

I'd certainly agree hoverfly. I have to say they don't look at all like a bee fly to me.

This is a bee fly


Bee Fly by British Red, on Flickr