UK Permethrine Source?

[Jaeger]

Aye Up All,

Does anyone know of a UK source for Permethrine at a reasonable percentage (and price!) i.e. 10%, for own dilution?

Some of the commercial brands of inspect repellent with a 1% content are just too pricey.

Thanks

 

[Janne]

More than a 1% solution ( liquid or cream) is by prescription only in all European countries.
Do you have a bad case of head lice?

 

[Jaeger]

Hello Janne,

Thanks for the reply.

It could be my spelling of it - Permethrine as opposed to Permethrin which has caused confusion (although I think that there is only one product by that pronunciation no matter how you spell it) but I have been using 'it' for many years as the active ingredient in products designed for use on clothing and intended to keep insects at bay.

I spend a lot of time in deer woodland, frequently right in amongst the 'green stuff' and/or leaf litter and for protracted periods as opposed to just passing through, so I pay great attention to protection against tick bites.

Up until last year I was using a product with about 1.5% which I had purchased some time back. Recently I have only been able to find it in the Life Systems EX4 Antimosquito product at .49% which seems pretty low to me.

I did try to purchase a product advertised specifically for the task @10% (for dilution) from the US via Ebabe last year but without success (probably due to some EU over-kill importation law!).

Have I got a bad case of head lice? - No, no case at all.

Have I seen the effects of Lymes disease? - Yes, at close hand.

Anyone know of a (cheap) source for Permethrin(e) in the UK at a decent strength for dilution?

 

[Janne]

Www.domyownpestcontrol.com
36.8%.
But the shop is in the US so I do not know if they send outside.

Yes, we have had Lyme's in Sweden for decades unfortunately. I protected myself by smearing the Swedish Army insect repellant on all exposed and potentially exposed skin ( head incl hair, neck, arms and legs).

Amazon US sell it too. In my experience they are usually happy to send worldwide.

 

[GadgetUK437]

Looks like high concentration Permethrin has been banned throughout Europe... kills moggies!

Highest concentration stuff I could find is scabies cream, that's 5%ww, but only in 30g cream, at £7.69. So, that's £5.13/g
http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/Permethrin-Cream-30g.html
Then there's Lifesystems EX8, that's 1.18%ww, in 50ml liquid, at £7.25. That's £12.29/g
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/mosquito-nets/ex8-anti-mosquito-net-treatment
Or Sawyer Premium Clothing insert repellent, 0.5%ww, 739g at £17.95. That is £4.86/g
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SAWYER-PREMIUM-CLOTHING-REPELLENT-Trigger/dp/B001ANQVYU

 

[Janne]

That is what I said, but Jaeger has not replied so......

 

[Nomad64]

I've used this stuff before to re-proof mozzie nets - 50 mil of 12% permethrin for £9.99 plus p&p from UK supplier here;

http://www.purpleturtle.co.uk/acatalog/Pyramid-Mosquito-Net-Impregnation-Kit-770.html#SID=111

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up Janne and Nomad64

Janne, I didn't reply as I have been doing some research including on the info that you posted. As gadgetuk437 has stated there appears to be an embargo on the strength of permethrin allowed to be sold in the UK/Europe and probably explains why not only did I not receive the product that I previously ordered from the US but they didn't bother reply to several e-mails that I sent trying to track down the order. I'm quite reluctant to try with an Amazon US order for the same reason. Thanks for your time anyway.


Nomad - that is great info - as it happens I have already gone down the route of using mossi net treatment - Lifesystems EX8 mixed in with the clothing treatment EX4. The EX8 is stated to contain 1.18% and the EX4 .49%.
The Pyramid stuff at 12%! sounds the business and I will order some before it gets banned in the UK!
As I previously implied I don't want the ticks to crawl on me and just fall off, possibly inside my clothing- I want them to roast on contact!

Thanks All

 

[C_Claycomb]

0.5% is PLENTY! This is the concentration used on many clothing spray treatments, and the conservative figure says it will kill things on contact for 2 weeks with at least one wash. Its also the concentration used in the powder used to kill ant and wasp nests, and that stuff will work for a long while if not washed off. If you really get into tick country, you could probably do some experiments. Catch some live subjects and see how long they last walking over 2+ week old treated clothing.

There is one from Pyramid that is in a hydrocarbon solvent, as well as the one that looks water based.

Can anyone post a link to where it has been announced that there has been, or is going to be, a ban on permethrin in Europe? GadgetUK437 I am looking at you here Where did you hear this? I know that laws don't have to make sense, but I have never heard of a cat being killed by permethrin and can't believe that its a high cause of fatalities. I have heard of cats dying from eating christmas tree needles and over eating cooking fat...Seems odd that something would be banned on that basis alone. I have seen things to suggest that permethrin has been banned as an agricultural pesticide for many years, but the small footprint of use for personal and pet pest control appears to have been outside that.

I use it regularly on clothing when going into the weeds, so don't want to be caught without a stock if it does disappear off the shelves.

 

[mrcharly]

I have never heard of a cat being killed by permethrin and can't believe that its a high cause of fatalities.

Um, it is a very common cause of poisoning in cats.
Usually from people using a 'spot on' flea treatment that is meant for dogs. Permethrins are ok on dogs but not on cats. Most of the permethrin sprays also say they should not be sprayed on cats' bedding.

That said, I highly doubt it is about to be banned in europe. I can imagine there are restrictions on high concentrations. TBH, I'd rather not put that much chemical next to my skin. But that is a personal preference.

 

[GadgetUK437]

http://icatcare.org/permethrin/vet-info

--
Gadget.

 

[Janne]

Jaeger, do not forget that only impregnating the clothes is not enough for a comprehensive protection.
The ticks can fall down on your head and decide to get a meal there and then.

You need to supplement with a body preparation too.

 

[santaman2000]

......but I have never heard of a cat being killed by permethrin and can't believe that its a high cause of fatalities. I have heard of cats dying from eating christmas tree needles and over eating cooking fat........

Um, it is a very common cause of poisoning in cats.
Usually from people using a 'spot on' flea treatment that is meant for dogs. Permethrins are ok on dogs but not on cats. Most of the permethrin sprays also say they should not be sprayed on cats' bedding.

That said, I highly doubt it is about to be banned in europe. I can imagine there are restrictions on high concentrations. TBH, I'd rather not put that much chemical next to my skin. But that is a personal preference.

Here's the best article I could find on affects, toxicity, etc. http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/PermGen.html

Jaeger, do not forget that only impregnating the clothes is not enough for a comprehensive protection.
The ticks can fall down on your head and decide to get a meal there and then.

You need to supplement with a body preparation too.

Preferably a body prep apart from permethrin.

 

[Janne]

DDT is better. Better for cats, anyway.

 

[Toddy]

Aye, kills everything.

Seriously there were (are) very sound reasons for banning that stuff.

M

 

[C_Claycomb]

Ah, okay. I really had not thought about it being applied directly to a cat. I was thinking of cats picking it up from walking on ant-powder, eating something that was contaminated, or rubbing up against anti-tick treated clothing. I still haven't actually met or heard of anyone's cat being killed by flea treatment applications, even if it is published as a significant problem. I have read about specific incidence of local cats being shot and know people who's cats have been hit by cars, but no personal experience or contact with poisoning cases.

If the problem with permethrin is in its use in veterinary treatments for cats I do not see why even a politician would think a ban on its use for clothing treatment would serve any good purpose. The link that Santanaman provided tied in with what I already knew. Nothing there that would make me think a total ban would make any sense.

When the thread started talking about bans I had thought someone had a concrete piece of data, such as an announcement by the European Chemicals Agency, that a ban was on the way, as happened with iodine for water treatment.

 

[mrcharly]

Cats can be killed by picking it up from ant powder, etc, because their bodies break down the toxins extremely slowly. So cumulative poisoning can take place. That's why the permethrin sprays say not to spray on cat's bedding.

 

[gonzo_the_great]

Pro's and cons of using it on cats, aside....

I believe it's also used by woodworm treatment companies. So that may be a source of high concentration chem?
Though from what I've seen, it's actually applied in lower concentrations, similar to that used for clothing/sold in shops.
Which is pretty much where mine all goes, when I pull up floor boards etc.


Jules

 

[santaman2000]

Aye, kills everything.

Seriously there were (are) very sound reasons for banning that stuff.

M

Unfortunately banning it has also had some bad effects on wildlife and humans. Without DDT we can't control the fire ant population and they in turn devastate ground nesting birds. Likewise the resurgence of malaria.

 

[Toddy]

You have my sympathies santaman2000, but we don't get fireants here, and in general the only malaria cases are from folks coming home from abroad when they haven't taken their pills.

My Dad had malaria, but he caught it in Egypt in WW2. That generation apart it's incredibly rare here, or in Northern Europe as a whole.

DDT was literally the cause of 'the silent Spring'.

M