Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Paul_B
- Start date
The military differentiated “”tactical” from “strategic” as the difference between a battle or the war:
Tactical, as in Tactical Air Command which used fighter type aircraft to win battles (short term goal)
Vs
Strategic, as in Strategic Air Command which used bomber type aircraft to hinder or destroy the enemies supply and/or manufacturing capability (long term) to wage war.
When I was a cop we were taught “tactics” as the use and employment of tequniques and weapons (both lethal and non lethal) to subdue a suspect.
However whenever I see the word used in conjunction with some product (clothing, knife, rucksacks, web gear, etc.) I see it used basically as just a marketing technique to infer such product is favored by either the military or police and induce the consumer to buy it.
Tactical, as in Tactical Air Command which used fighter type aircraft to win battles (short term goal)
Vs
Strategic, as in Strategic Air Command which used bomber type aircraft to hinder or destroy the enemies supply and/or manufacturing capability (long term) to wage war.
When I was a cop we were taught “tactics” as the use and employment of tequniques and weapons (both lethal and non lethal) to subdue a suspect.
However whenever I see the word used in conjunction with some product (clothing, knife, rucksacks, web gear, etc.) I see it used basically as just a marketing technique to infer such product is favored by either the military or police and induce the consumer to buy it.
Marketing. Gives an association to the elite armed units.
Similar to those fancy shaped and adorned Zombie knives.
Similar to those fancy shaped and adorned Zombie knives.
Not entirely Janne.
Yes, it is used as a marketing thing...same as people labelling gear as "bushcraft". Or "ultra lite".
I have seen almost exactly this same question, for the term "bushcraft" posted on other forums...and the response (rather narrowly I think), is that its just a marketing ploy.
Lots of words are used to market things, that does not mean that all things so labelled are junk. Spyderco put a couple of those words together, for marketing, but the product was still pretty good anyway.
In many cases it does serve to group gear into recognisable families. As in all such families, some gear is the real deal and has been well designed and made, and some is just trading off the image.
As an example, Helikon make a lot of clothing that is labelled "tactical". A lot is actually pretty good for outdoor use. I am fond of their UTPs (Urban Tactical Pants). I like the fit and the pockets. What makes them different from other trousers with pockets, such as those by Craghopper, Rohan, or Fjallraven, or the issue ACU/BDU/etc uniform trousers? Just my opinion here, but front waist band pockets that are designed for pistol magazines, rear pockets that can take AR magazines, sub pockets sized for twin-cell 123A type flash lights or leatherman tools, front pockets reinforced for clip carry knives, and internal knee pad pockets, not just knee reinforcing.
Tactical torches are often designed with features to allow them to be handled in conjunction with a pistol, and their light throw pattern is suited for shooting. That is where Surefire came from originally.
Why do you ask, Paul?
ATB
Chris
Yes, it is used as a marketing thing...same as people labelling gear as "bushcraft". Or "ultra lite".
I have seen almost exactly this same question, for the term "bushcraft" posted on other forums...and the response (rather narrowly I think), is that its just a marketing ploy.
Lots of words are used to market things, that does not mean that all things so labelled are junk. Spyderco put a couple of those words together, for marketing, but the product was still pretty good anyway.
In many cases it does serve to group gear into recognisable families. As in all such families, some gear is the real deal and has been well designed and made, and some is just trading off the image.As an example, Helikon make a lot of clothing that is labelled "tactical". A lot is actually pretty good for outdoor use. I am fond of their UTPs (Urban Tactical Pants). I like the fit and the pockets. What makes them different from other trousers with pockets, such as those by Craghopper, Rohan, or Fjallraven, or the issue ACU/BDU/etc uniform trousers? Just my opinion here, but front waist band pockets that are designed for pistol magazines, rear pockets that can take AR magazines, sub pockets sized for twin-cell 123A type flash lights or leatherman tools, front pockets reinforced for clip carry knives, and internal knee pad pockets, not just knee reinforcing.
Tactical torches are often designed with features to allow them to be handled in conjunction with a pistol, and their light throw pattern is suited for shooting. That is where Surefire came from originally.
Why do you ask, Paul?
ATB
Chris
I'm trying to understand what a tactical pen could be. It's in a thread where a guy is asking for a tactical pen that's not too expensive. I'm not taking the mick I'm trying to understand whether it's a misused term for marketing or there is a property that justifies the tactical tag.
Items like Fishers space pen has properties that allow use in more difficult conditions for pens but is that tactical?
Trousers used for specific purposes have features designed for that purpose. I have a waterproof jacket that is designed for mountaineering. Is that not a specificity like trousers used for tactical units in the police for example? Pockets in trousers for a gun magazine or a pocket in the forearm of a ski jacket for a ski pass. It's not tactical but a design feature with a purpose.
Items like Fishers space pen has properties that allow use in more difficult conditions for pens but is that tactical?
Trousers used for specific purposes have features designed for that purpose. I have a waterproof jacket that is designed for mountaineering. Is that not a specificity like trousers used for tactical units in the police for example? Pockets in trousers for a gun magazine or a pocket in the forearm of a ski jacket for a ski pass. It's not tactical but a design feature with a purpose.
An object whose purpose is to maim or kill, but that looks innocent in case a police does a search.
Strong solid material, often metal, but with pen inside.
That is a so called Tactical Pen.
Other innocent weapons exist.
IMO should be totally banned.
Strong solid material, often metal, but with pen inside.
That is a so called Tactical Pen.
Other innocent weapons exist.
IMO should be totally banned.
Then I guess it is fortunate for all the rest of us that you do not make policy.
or in the same vein we would all have roundy end kitchen knives. Miss your hand guns much?For a slightly less biased description of a "tactical pen", try this. Solid pen designed so that it can be used for self defence in a last ditch emergency. Typically this means that they have screw on lids, one end narrowed down to a small rounded point (no pointier than a Sharpie marker nib) with various grooves or knurls to provide a gripping surface. Rather a lot of examples on Heinnie's website.
Do they do what they say on the tin? Very hard to say...no doubt that if you did poke someone with one it would hurt, but whether there are all that many (any) people out there who have escaped a mugging or worse by having one and using it...? meh. Better than finger nails, worse than almost anything else.
Mostly marketing and a chance for various makers of gear, knives, and guns to make a branded item that they can sell to anyone to carry all the time.
In the UK I do have doubts about the legality of them if you had to use one and then explain matters to the Law, since our Offensive Weapon laws apply to things that are "made or adapted" and it is hard to argue that poky pens were not designed with poking in mind! Of course, you could poke someone about as effectively with a lot of other pens and items, and there doesn't seem to be much of a problem with people being injured or robbed at pen-point, unless you count their use in the legal profession.
In my opinion it is unnecessary to ban them as they are very difficult to use really as intended. If one just wants to make a hole in someone's skin any pen or even pencil is about equally effective. Not to note that some girls/women wear claws that are really scary if they start to use them.
I guess originally 'tactical' was something that was designed for military battle use. After that there has been a lot of meaning creep going on an apparently it is still going on. Various kinds of military contractor needs is just fuelling it. And then some SWAT unit wanted a part of the game.
After getting out of the military I started to use military surplus clothing as that was the cheapest kind even half way fit for outdoor activities.
Just remember that all military equipment is made by the lowest bidder ...
I guess originally 'tactical' was something that was designed for military battle use. After that there has been a lot of meaning creep going on an apparently it is still going on. Various kinds of military contractor needs is just fuelling it. And then some SWAT unit wanted a part of the game.
After getting out of the military I started to use military surplus clothing as that was the cheapest kind even half way fit for outdoor activities.
Just remember that all military equipment is made by the lowest bidder ...
I believe 'tactical' pens are designed to be used as a Kubotan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
Of course, in the UK, carrying anything (even a banana)
with the intention of using it in self-defence makes it an offensive weapon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
Of course, in the UK, carrying anything (even a banana)
with the intention of using it in self-defence makes it an offensive weapon.
Yes, it's a kubotan of a kind or a strike enforcer.
I must admit that the British idea that only offensive weapons exist is somehow strange. So if somebody strikes at you with a knife and you block it with your hand you are guilty of using an offensive weapon? How about an umbrella? Ok, let's not get into that.
I must admit that the British idea that only offensive weapons exist is somehow strange. So if somebody strikes at you with a knife and you block it with your hand you are guilty of using an offensive weapon? How about an umbrella? Ok, let's not get into that.
So does that mean if you’re attacked you do NOT INTEND to defend yourself with whatever you can?
Yes, round tipped kitchen knives are not a bad idea. Or other knives too. Maybe if they were round tipped, the authorities would not feel the need to be so rabid about them.
I can not remember when I used the tip of a kitchen knife. A Bread knife works well, even with a blunt front?
Miss my guns? I did in UK, as I only had a shotgun, and I only used it to hunt.
Here, if I should miss them, I only have to open the gun safe, and they are lying there, smiling at me.
Have to clean both Rutgers and the Sig today. Was at the club yesterday.
(I hate cleaning guns!!!!)
We have our guns for sport purpose. But if we are unlucky, they will be used in a defensive way. Last shot in the ceiling.
None of mine were designed for any military force so I can not call them Tactical.
( not sure about some of wife’s guns. The Manurhin 73 and her Sig. She does wear Tactical shorts to the range. Swears by the brand 5.11. )
I can not remember when I used the tip of a kitchen knife. A Bread knife works well, even with a blunt front?
Miss my guns? I did in UK, as I only had a shotgun, and I only used it to hunt.
Here, if I should miss them, I only have to open the gun safe, and they are lying there, smiling at me.
Have to clean both Rutgers and the Sig today. Was at the club yesterday.
(I hate cleaning guns!!!!)
We have our guns for sport purpose. But if we are unlucky, they will be used in a defensive way. Last shot in the ceiling.
None of mine were designed for any military force so I can not call them Tactical.
( not sure about some of wife’s guns. The Manurhin 73 and her Sig. She does wear Tactical shorts to the range. Swears by the brand 5.11. )
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More than somewhat semantic but a proper block feels like an attack to many, as it often should. On a long dead forum I was told that the British law does not know of a defensive weapon or such use.
I would love to try how a whale tusk feels like. There is apparently some empirical evidence for its effectivenes.
I would love to try how a whale tusk feels like. There is apparently some empirical evidence for its effectivenes.
If in the UK & intending to carry a 'tactical' pen I recommend being aware
of potential legal implications.
These have been discussed in detail elsewhere.
Improvising with a Whale Tusk when justified is fine,
carrying one 'just in case' will get you in trouble....
Stay safe.
of potential legal implications.
These have been discussed in detail elsewhere.
Improvising with a Whale Tusk when justified is fine,
carrying one 'just in case' will get you in trouble....
Stay safe.
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If attacked, rolling up a newspaper & using in a manner you can legally justify as self-defence is fine.
Carrying a rolled up newspaper with that intention may cause a legal problem for you in the UK.
My opinion. Nothing more. Disregard if you wish.
No, I’m not disregarding your opinion. In fact everything I’ve read and heard on the subject tells me you’re correct. It’s the “logic” behind the facts that seems “illogical” at best. The UK is far from being a tyrannical state and everything I’ve seen confirms you do indeed have a legal right to self defense (as well as an inherent natural right which is outside of any nation’s moral justification to limit) but, as British Red put it several years ago, you have no legal right to carry an effective means of defense. Meanwhile the attackers suffer no such restrictions by virtue of ignoring the laws anyway. A rolled up newspaper against a knife wielding gangster seems ludicrous——particularly if the attacking mugger/gangster is young and healthy while the newspaper wielding victim is elderly or disabled.
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^
Yes. Criminals here are very well informed of the law & how to exploit the rules.
Otherwise law-abiding citizens who make an admission, being unaware of the legalities, are much easier to prosecute...
Upside down world.
Yes. Criminals here are very well informed of the law & how to exploit the rules.
Otherwise law-abiding citizens who make an admission, being unaware of the legalities, are much easier to prosecute...
Upside down world.
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Although our weapons laws are radically different, this bit ^^^^^ is pretty much the same here.
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