Strange map grids.

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
24
Europe
I've been hiking outside the UK at various points over the last 14 years. I've used maps produced by various national mapping organisations, from the Swiss, to the Dutch to the Andorrans. I've always just picked up the map and gone. Using it instinctively, my compass rarely if ever leaves my pocket (I think I've used the compass in the pub more than I have in on the hill...).

This weekend when I was in Luxembourg I picked up a couple of the local 1:20k walking maps produced by Administration du Cadastre et de la Topographie. Sitting at home now plotting a walk using the map of Boulaide-Wiltz, I wanted to give a friend online the coordinates of the trail head.

I turned the map so I could see the edges, and looked at the numbers. Then blinked.

I've been bought up on Ordnance survey mapping, using 6 figure grid references to find things is second nature, and finding them on a map is a reflex. So you can imagine how confused I was when confronted by this:

luxmap02_sm.jpg


There are two sets of numbers, one in black, one in blue. The black give a rectangular grid that intersects at 90°, like I'm used to from OS. It doesn't zero pad the numbers like OS does, but you can kind of abuse them like an OS reference - 04961002 kinda gives you an 8 fig reference for a path at 368m. I think.

Then you look at the blue lines. These do not intersect at 90 degrees, they are angled slightly. I thought at first these might be lat/longs from say the WGS84, or some such. I wiggled the map round and found this:

luxmap03_sm.jpg


As you an see this is the 6° line, but you should also notice that the number before it is 715, and the one after is 285. The lines do not have equal spacing, these two and the 6° line are closer than the others marked in Blue lines.

I turned to the Key of the map hoping there would be something useful there to help me, and was greeted with some Greek (ok, some maths) and some French:

luxmap01_sm.jpg


Excuse me for showing my ignorance in this, but how on earth do I use the coordinate system on this map to relay references to someone else using this map? What about to someone with a GPS set to WGS84?

Thanks

Julia
 

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
24
Europe
The blue lines are UTM grid lines which are a Mercator projection that utilises lat and long to form it's co-ordinates(they're 6 degrees apart). You can ignore them and just read the black grid lines.

The problem with the black grid lines, is I haven't worked out what the actual grid system they use is, 04961002 works if the person next to me has the same map, but if you want to know which map to use, or plug it into a gps or online tool, I'm not sure what it is. I'm used to an OS grid ref in the form TR123456, the TR tells me the main square, the 123, 456 then gives me more levels of detail. Without the TR in front, the 123456 could be anywhere, which is the issue I have with the 04961002, there needs to me more information in this, but I can't work it out.

I think I may have to read up on how to use UTM on a map, as this would help with the use of a gps...

Julia
 

Brynglas

Full Member
I can't say that I'm familiar with the Belgian maps, but I'll have a look. (The map is compiled by the Belgian Cartographic Institute) The UTM probably won't help you much as it takes a bit of getting used to. It's basically designed to be used worldwide so that any local anomalies are avoided.
 

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
24
Europe
I have my GPS set to UK grid, because it's easiest to use with my maps in the UK, just turned it on indoors, where it of course has no signal so it thinks it's still in Luxembourg. Outside of the UK it seems to drop into UTM, which gives the position of the 04961002 I mention, 31U 697421E 5524083N, the lines for 697N and 5524E are visible on the map. I think I may be able to work with this...

J
 
Last edited:

janso

Full Member
Dec 31, 2012
611
5
Penwith, Cornwall
That's fine if your GPS has a UTM setting, UTM grids take some getting used to as you need to give the UTM zone as the identifier. If you have Google I'm sure there will be some converters and explanations. Good luck

Bang on the money there, sound advice. UTM does take an adjustment to learn but does have the positive of lat and long which is around the world. Remember the coordinates point to a unique spot on the ground and not the bottom left corner of a 1m, 10 m 100m or 1000m square which OS grid referencing does.
It's caught me out more than once before! With a google search, there are plenty of good tutorials online for help and guidance. Enjoy another skill set for nav!


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Angry Pirate

Forager
Jul 24, 2014
198
0
Peak District
We had a similar issue in the Astutias in Spain. The mapsbwe had were government maps made to show agricultural usage. The grid lines were mean't to be wgs84 but bore no relation to the gps, roads were often in the wrong place and grid lines didn't match going from the edge of one map to the next!
All made nav very interesting. We quickly adopted a macronav ethic, i.e. walk between those mountains down that valley and aim for that village.
 

janso

Full Member
Dec 31, 2012
611
5
Penwith, Cornwall
We had a similar issue in the Astutias in Spain. The mapsbwe had were government maps made to show agricultural usage. The grid lines were mean't to be wgs84 but bore no relation to the gps, roads were often in the wrong place and grid lines didn't match going from the edge of one map to the next!
All made nav very interesting. We quickly adopted a macronav ethic, i.e. walk between those mountains down that valley and aim for that village.

Sounds familiar! A test of nav skills for sure!


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