Saw pits

[Tengu]

Well, I am doing a bit of work at Helston museum.

Im looking over their tool displays, making sure everything is in the right place and considering how to improve them.

I am probably the wrong person for this as I already know what most are and what they do.

We have a huge saw, from a sawpit, and I said we need a sawpit picture to give the public an idea as to how it was used.

Anyone worked a sawpit and have you got pictures?

 

[Janne]

I did a search 'vintage photo saw pit tasmania'

lots of photos.

I did some research a few years back for a friend whose ancestor ended up in Tasmania after a slight disagreement with the UK law....
His family history said he lost his vision in one ( dust) and was shipped back to UK blind to be taken care of by his family.

I doubt those sawpits were used in Europe for the last century.
Must have been a hellish job!

 

[Toddy]

You'd maybe do better to scour some of the American sites Tengu. It's the kind of 'pioneer' technology that they still use in historical displays.

M

 

[Robson Valley]

Sawpit Creek is up in the Thredbo-Perisher area of Kosciuszko National Park in OZ.
There was a lot of early logging in that direction.
I don't recall any pit ever pointed out to me as having been a saw pit.
Did see lots of pictures, would not want to be the man in the hole.

 

[Broch]

There's a decent sawpit at the National Trust site at Erddig not far from us; sorry, I don't have any photos. Apparently the women worked the lower handle and the men the upper!! Those were the days

I understand sawpits were used around here well into the early 1900's.

 

[Tengu]

Thanks guys.

Stephen Bridges describes them in his `Uttermost Part of the World` He says the lower man gets all the sawdust in their face.

 

[Janne]

I guess that was so the men could not look underneath the skirts?

An old rule is you never walk upstairs behind a lady.

But you were cruel in Wales, letting ladies do such hard work.
Cruel, or pioneers in Women's Lib!

 

[Broch]

I understand that the upper position was much more physical than the lower - I can't help feeling that it was 'convenient' that way! I was also told that it was possible to develop a technique where the lower team member was not covered in dust; presumably by cutting at an angle.

 

[Tengu]

I suppose gravity would do the work, the lower just guides the saw.

 

[Janne]

Not sure: if the lower person only guides, then the upper person has to push down on a downstroke ( + aided by weight of saw and gravity) and pull up ( working against the gravity, pulling up the weight.).
Hellish no matter what!

We are so lucky today.

 

[Tengu]

Yes, but the people who had saw pits were well grateful for them.

Imagine cutting boards without.

 

[Toddy]

Tengu, there's a lot of clear information if you look for 'Whipsaw' instead.
They cut on the down stroke, and they were known as 'ripping' saws since they were intended to cut along the grain of the timber, slicing up the logs into useable planking.

The Tillerman guides the cut and pulls the saw up again, and since the saw is angled most of the sawdust falls away from the Boxman beneath. A wide brimmed hat helps keep the dust from his eyes though.

M

 

[Janne]

Yes, but the people who had saw pits were well grateful for them.

Imagine cutting boards without.

In Sweden in the old days they split and adzed to get boards. Before the tech came to make those long thin pieces of decent steel.

Many historic houses still have those boards on the floors, the adze marks are visible from the underneath. Ceilings.

 

[Nomad64]

Well, I am doing a bit of work at Helston museum.

Im looking over their tool displays, making sure everything is in the right place and considering how to improve them.

I am probably the wrong person for this as I already know what most are and what they do.

We have a huge saw, from a sawpit, and I said we need a sawpit picture to give the public an idea as to how it was used.

Anyone worked a sawpit and have you got pictures?

Still used in the 21st century in parts of Africa. Where I worked in northern Malawi there was a colonial era pine plantation being cleared to remove exotic species and although there was a modern sawmill, if that was not running the pit sawyers would cut planks. I believe the floors, doors etc. of my house (think Little House on the Prairie cabin) was made with pit sawn planks.

Shame, I never got to see them working but here is a short video from neighbouring Zambia.

There is a belief that the expression “top dog” refers to the sawyer at the top (being the most senior) but I think that this has been discredited.

 

[VaughnT]

In America, the pit saw is still demonstrated in a few places.

Oddly enough, the design also gave us the colloquialisms "top dog" and "under dog". As you can imagine, being "top dog" was far better a thing since you were in the breeze, if there was one, and didn't get covered in saw dust. I don't know why we tend to "root for the under dog" like we do in the States, but we do. I guess it's just a matter of feeling bad for the poor sap stuck down in the hole.

Using the saw is almost entirely on the under dog, the guy who isn't in the lime light. Like any whip saw, you can't push them very easily so the Top Dog has the job of pulling the saw back up. The under dog powers the saw, gets covered in saw dust and has to do the guiding the cut.

Either position must have sucked big after a few feet of cutting.

As you can see in this video demonstration, the top dog isn't even watching what's going on. Colonial Williamsburg is a good place for accurate representations of old skills, so I'm pretty sure they got it right.

 

[Chalkflint]

I actually have the remnants of a few old saw pits in my woodland.
They now just look like small recesses in the ground.
They would have been used before the days of machinery where the wood was cut up to make it easier to handle.
I see the terminology "Top Dog" has been mentioned and I now know where the term under dog comes from.
In the UK the term "Top Man" came from working the pit. The boss was the person on top who was "Top Man"
Chalkflint

 

[crosslandkelly]

 

[Nice65]

Tengu, why aren’t you using Google Images for pictures of sheep and saw pits?

 

[Nomad64]

Ditto for Flickr Creative Commons - many images available for non-commercial use provided you attribute the taker.

https://www.flickr.com/creativecommons

 

[petrochemicals]

Bewdley museum have a model of a saw pit in theirs