Pickled meat

[Toddy]

I've been reading a text on Medieval Scottish/ French cooking.

"Livestock slaughtered at Martinmass (11th November) was preserved for use over Winter either by pickling or salting.
Meat would sometimes be pickled in vinegar made from either sour wine, ale or verjuice( the juice of unripe crab apples or grapes).
Pickled meat tasted better and was cheaper and more convenient than the salted meat, which had to be boiled for hours before it was palatable

My problem is that the pickled meat I know, is really just marinated in spiced oil/ vinegar/ herby salty stock, and then cooked. It isn't preserved.

Has anyone actually 'pickled' meat to preserve it ? How did it work out ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[wicca]

I've no information on the 'pickling' of meat process Toddy, but as time passes people who were obliged to eat salt meat, at least in the Western world, are few and far between now.
I thought you might be interested to a 'secondhand account'
I was lucky enough to sign aboard a ship where 3 of the crew had been in sail and salt meat or "Salt Horse" as they called it was part of the diet. (1920-1930's) I recall they said the ship's cook, very often accompanied by the First Mate, to make sure he only took the required amount, would open a cask of salt horse, haul out a big piece and take it to the galley where it would be soaked and simmered overnight. If the cook had cuts or salt water boils, he would be desperate not to get any brine in them as apparently it was so strong it caused agonies. As it cooked the fats and grease that came to the surface would be scooped off by the cook and saved in a big bowl. Just occasionally this would be taken and used to lubricate and preserve running rigging, known as 'Slushing down'

More usually the cook would keep the 'Slush' and sell it to the seaman as an 'extra' to spread on hard tack biscuits. I'm told this is the origin of the phrase "Slush Fund" I seem to remember though that they said if the salt horse was properly soaked and then cooked long enough it was edible especially when cooked as 'Scouse' or stews. As the cask slowly emptied though there was often just bones and gristle at the bottom, how much depended on the honesty of the shore supplier. In the wind ships, with no refrigeration the food was still fairly basic right up to the late 1930's.

 

[philaw]

Interesting history lesson, Wicca, thanks. My guess would be that if you boiled meat and then sealed it in a jar with vinegar it would last for a while (weeks?), but I couldn't see it lasting all the way through winter. Could it perhaps be that it went a bit funny, like those fish that scandinavians bury, and people acquired a taste for it? I'll test it if I get round to it.

 

[forestwalker]

I've been reading a text on Medieval Scottish/ French cooking.

"Livestock slaughtered at Martinmass (11th November) was preserved for use over Winter either by pickling or salting.
Meat would sometimes be pickled in vinegar made from either sour wine, ale or verjuice( the juice of unripe crab apples or grapes).
Pickled meat tasted better and was cheaper and more convenient than the salted meat, which had to be boiled for hours before it was palatable

My problem is that the pickled meat I know, is really just marinated in spiced oil/ vinegar/ herby salty stock, and then cooked. It isn't preserved.

Has anyone actually 'pickled' meat to preserve it ? How did it work out ?

I haven't actaully done it myself, but Caraidoc (see http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellaneous.html#8 ) has done so for a number of years. At least he claims it has lasted quite well for him. For me as a Swede pickling tings is a preservation method, mostly used with herring these days. Basically, once you reach a certain salt concentration and pH bacterial growth is inhibited.

Do check the botulism salt/acid levels before you proceed, though. Apparently Alaska is the "botulism hotspot" in the USA, due to people trying to make some of the traditional fermented dishes in new and exiting ways (fermenting whale flipper in a plastic bag is apparently contraindicated...)

 

[Toddy]

Thanks for the replies

Wicca, someday we must sit down and blether my father built boats, was fascinated by sailing ships and spent half his life among the little boatyards that surrounded the Clyde. He was full of stories of the sailing ships and the men who built and sailed them.
My Mum was astonished to hear my infant self sitting in my pram babbling the list, "Fore mast, main mast, mizzen mast, jigger mast, after jigger........" Dad reckoned it was at least as good for my speech as that quick brown fox nonsense

I had wondered at pickling such as the text referred to.
If you put tough meat in pineapple juice it will soften it, but if left too long it will pretty much dissolve it. Don't try to live on pineapples alone. A group of Chindits ended up in a pretty bad way when they tried it for three weeks when trapped behind enemy lines in WW2, teeth, gums, digestive tract all pretty much wrecked.
We routinely 'pickle' vegetables, like onions, cauliflowers and the like, and if you get the strength wrong, you get soggy, mushy stuff, I wondered how it would do on meat.

Interesting on the Alaskan front too, more interesting I suspect to see how it resolves; do we get really brilliant and safe recipes, or does Health & Safety ban the whole thing ? Thanks for the link, I'll have a read.

There's still a custom in the Isles of burying young gannets for a while and then digging them up and eating them. I'm reliably informed that gugah is an aquired taste, preferably before one is old enough to refuse

atb,
Toddy

 

[MartiniDave]

Toddy,

Just found this on the web :-

http://hubpages.com/hub/How-To-Pickle-Meat

Dave

 

[Toddy]

Thanks Dave, interesting too, but it's another salting pickle method. Pretty much the same way that we did it except that we used more spices.

cheers,
M

 

[Ketchup]

I study traditional foods since years. There is no trace of meat being pickled in acid for more than 'gastronomic' reasons in Europe of old. For fish (ecaveche, ceviche) yes, but there it was applied to small cheap fish with many bones, the acid softening the bones to make the trash fish more palatable.

I think this is a case of wrong translation: 'to pickle' is now used for vinegar/juice maceration, but in older English it just meant brining (compare Dutch 'pekel'= brine). Brined meat is still very much used (in the Guyana's and W-Indies e.g.) and quite tastefull when well prepared.

 

[forestwalker]

I had wondered at pickling such as the text referred to.
If you put tough meat in pineapple juice it will soften it, but if left too long it will pretty much dissolve it. Don't try to live on pineapples alone. A group of Chindits ended up in a pretty bad way when they tried it for three weeks when trapped behind enemy lines in WW2, teeth, gums, digestive tract all pretty much wrecked.

Pinapple (as well as some others; e.g. papaya and kiwi) contain various protein chewing enzymes (which is why a mixture of cream and those will die a soggy death). Good for tough meats, gues what a meat tenderizer is made from?

We routinely 'pickle' vegetables, like onions, cauliflowers and the like, and if you get the strength wrong, you get soggy, mushy stuff, I wondered how it would do on meat.

Might, but if you follow standard recipies it should work out ok. Try to get the concentrations from e.g. a herring recipie?

Interesting on the Alaskan front too, more interesting I suspect to see how it resolves; do we get really brilliant and safe recipes, or does Health & Safety ban the whole thing ? Thanks for the link, I'll have a read.

Caraiadoc is brilliant for medieval cooking. You do know that Forme of Cury is on the Guthenberg archive?

I have some scientific articles on my hard drive on the topic of botulism if you care for that kind of things. I'd say "Botulism Type E Outbreak Associated with Eating a Beached Whale, Alaska" (Joseph B. McLaughlin et al , Emerging Infectious Diseases 10(9):1685-1687, 2004) is a rather good starting point, but a google scholar search will give you a bunch of other hits.

One day I'll be able to get hold of some of the Icelandic fermented shark...

 

[sandbender]

It's common practice in Hungary for pork to be steeped in brine for a day or two before its smoked, not exactly pickling but it does produce a nicer flavor

 

[Toddy]

I study traditional foods since years. There is no trace of meat being pickled in acid for more than 'gastronomic' reasons in Europe of old. For fish (ecaveche, ceviche) yes, but there it was applied to small cheap fish with many bones, the acid softening the bones to make the trash fish more palatable.

I think this is a case of wrong translation: 'to pickle' is now used for vinegar/juice maceration, but in older English it just meant brining (compare Dutch 'pekel'= brine). Brined meat is still very much used (in the Guyana's and W-Indies e.g.) and quite tastefull when well prepared.

The text I read came from Historic Scotland's Education Service, and it forms part of a handout for schools and visiting adult groups.
I was trying to figure out a suitable recipe that pickled meat so that I could make some and have it as part of the medieval foods events.
I also thought it might be of interest to bushcrafters too since we have no fridges when out in the uloo (how the hang is that supposed to be spelled ?) for long.
The text is quite clear, and I have two blocks of frozen crab apple juice that I thought might do for the verjuice.
The text refers to 16th century cooking ingredients, recipes and customs.

I have pickled fish and vegetables successfully for many years but now I'm wondering how to test a meat pickle for toxins

I think the brine soak before smoking is akin to the marinading before drying meat for jerky; just improves the whole thing

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tadpole]

In my youth I’ve eaten
Pickled trotters
Pickled tongue

People forget that corned beef was a way of preserving beef. The corned part referring to the processing with corms of salt

Pickled brisket/corned beef
6 pounds Brisket
1¼ cup Salt
2 tablespoons Pickling spice
1 teaspoon Saltpeter
1 teaspoon Sugar
12 Garlic cloves
1 quart Water

Place the meat in a large stone crock. Mix the salt, pickling spice, saltpeter, sugar and garlic with 1 quart water and pour over the meat. Add enough water to completely cover the meat. Use a heavy bowl or board to weight the meat down. Cover the crock in cheesecloth to keep it in place, then cover the cheesecloth with aluminium foil. Let stand in a cool place for 8 days, then store in refrigerator for 6 days. To serve, cook in boiling water for 3 hours or until tender. Serves 8 to 10.

Found online, but from this book
The art of Jewish Recipe By : Jennie Grossinger

 

[BorderReiver]

Toddy, is it possible that the author of the text missed out the salting stage in the pickling because is was too "obvious" to mention?

 

[harryhaller]

Was the meat cooked before pickling? In Spain one pickes sardines with vinegar, garlic and tomato, but it is cooked first. They reckon it will last forever after pickling. I've tried it - but I ate it all before I could tell whether it would last forever. It certainly didn't need a fridge.

 

[Toddy]

Toddy, is it possible that the author of the text missed out the salting stage in the pickling because is was too "obvious" to mention?

I don't think so because the text is quite specific that there are two different methods.
Salting is cheap, vinegar was as expensive as cheap wine, presumably why crab apple juice was also used.

I did wonder if it were cooked first,

As far as I know the only way to 'seal' a crock properly back then didn't make a vacuum. They would use fat or they would put on a lid and seal it with fat or resin or tie a cloth over.

cheers,
Mary

 

[clcuckow]

In my youth I’ve eaten
Pickled trotters
Pickled tongue

People forget that corned beef was a way of preserving beef. The corned part referring to the processing with corms of salt

Pickled brisket/corned beef
6 pounds Brisket
1¼ cup Salt
2 tablespoons Pickling spice
1 teaspoon Saltpeter
1 teaspoon Sugar
12 Garlic cloves
1 quart Water

Place the meat in a large stone crock. Mix the salt, pickling spice, saltpeter, sugar and garlic with 1 quart water and pour over the meat. Add enough water to completely cover the meat. Use a heavy bowl or board to weight the meat down. Cover the crock in cheesecloth to keep it in place, then cover the cheesecloth with aluminium foil. Let stand in a cool place for 8 days, then store in refrigerator for 6 days. To serve, cook in boiling water for 3 hours or until tender. Serves 8 to 10.

Found online, but from this book
The art of Jewish Recipe By : Jennie Grossinger

I have really got into making Salt Beef at the moment using the brine pickle recipe out of Hew Fernly RipOffStore's Meat book but I have Nigela'ed it by doing the long simmer in Cola, which I suppose it a weak acid pickle as well and give a slightly sweet spicy tang.

 

[Sisyphus]

I have a recipe for an indian Poussin Pickle. The chickens are cooked first though. I haven't had a go at it yet, it just sounds wrong to me for some reason. Almost as wierd as Tavuk Gogsu, a turkish dessert made from chicken

 

[forestwalker]

I don't think so because the text is quite specific that there are two different methods.
Salting is cheap, vinegar was as expensive as cheap wine, presumably why crab apple juice was also used.

I did wonder if it were cooked first,

As far as I know the only way to 'seal' a crock properly back then didn't make a vacuum. They would use fat or they would put on a lid and seal it with fat or resin or tie a cloth over.

I avtaylly did a paper on food preservation once for a university course. I think drying/coldsmoking, pickling, salt/sugar (which is in many ways the same as drying), and fermenting was about it for long term storage (except in the parts of the world where you had a big freezer part of the year). The seal in goose fat technique could work too, but I can't recall seeing it in the primary sources, and I'm somewhat uncertain as to how long that could actually work.

Ahh, sorry. One more technique; benzoic acid in some berries. Very nice thing to do with lingonberries, just putting them in water and letting the benzioic acid preserve them.

Once could seal a jar with a layer of wax, would work for sugar based preseves, but that would not give you and actual vacum, just a barrier.

 

[Toddy]

Thanks for the info Forestwalker

When pickling fish (I'm highly allergic to the stuff so it's rubber gloves and anti histamines for me ) do you cook it first? and do you use a lot of salt in the pickle ? and do you think it would have kept well in a pottery crock sealed with a slate lid and wax/ resin ?
I'm trying to work out if it would work with meat sliced finely, there was no mention of fatty or poor cuts of meat being used. Except that the text said that it was cheaper than salted meat

cheers,
Toddy

 

[harryhaller]

When pickling fish ... do you cook it first? and do you use a lot of salt in the pickle ?

Herring is pickled raw with vinegar and salt - its the acid that does the "cooking".