New Info for beekeepers and other intersted in the subject.

[locum76]

here you go...

http://www.buglife.org.uk/News/Pesticides+Poisoning+Our+Bees.htm

an article about neonicotinoids.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/saving-bees-what-we-know-now/

an article that links the plight of bees to the rest of the environment.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/saving-bees-what-we-know-now/

varroa resistance.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/09/10/last.beekeeper.film/

the last beekeeper.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/123803-animal-asbo-handed-to-perthshire-beekeeper/

scottish beekeeper gets an asbo!

Regards

Rob

 

[tjwuk]

Nice one, I like bees and even more so what they produce!

 

[dogwood]

Thanks for posting this!

Do you keep bees yourself?

I'm just now getting into it -- extremely interesting and I think it will be fun.

I've already started making my supers and frames for the spring when I will become an official beekeeper myself

 

[BigShot]

here you go...

http://www.buglife.org.uk/News/Pesticides+Poisoning+Our+Bees.htm

an article about neonicotinoids.

Thanks for that one, Rob.
I know what I'll be doing, I suggest others do likewise. http://www.writetothem.com/

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/123803-animal-asbo-handed-to-perthshire-beekeeper/

scottish beekeeper gets an asbo!

If the article is to be believed (and we all know many people will readily lie about someone they've got an axe to grind for) it sounds like the guy deserved everything he got.
I'm sure there was a certain amount of arm-waving and panic from his neighbours (basically - behaviour likely to encourage a sting) but if the guy's comments are true he sounds like a complete ****.

The last thing bees need right now are bad keepers who do nothing to improve the public image of bees and keepers.



For the record - I'm planning to start keeping a (possibly several) top-bar hives.
I'm semi-convinced by the argument that part of the problem for bees is modern beekeeping. It's hard to imagine a more unnatural way to keep them.
Top bar never opens up the entire hive at once, allows natural cell building (I completely disagree that energy spent building comb is "wasted") and - if what I've read is correct - may help them deal with things like Varroa.


EDIT
I just sent an email to my local MP. I'll keep checking the local free rag for a picture of him mugging in front of the hives at the park - he's not one to miss a photo-op.
I'll post up anything relevant from any response I get when it comes trhough.

 

[locum76]

Beekeepers should be a bit more responsible right enough. I'd only read an extract of the article before posting and it came from my beekeeping association so it may have been slightly biased. I'd check before putting hives on your allotment BigShot.

Dogwood, we keep bees at the farm, through these rough times we have managed to keep them alive but they have produced very little honey. this year we are hyper feeding them through the winter in the hope that they will be raring to go in spring. I've been trying to learn the art while they are going through a tough patch and it hasn't been easy.

we use national hives with foundation wax in the super frames. we hope to make money from the hives once we have learned the ropes so we tend to use commercial kit.

an interesting point made to us by a mentor recently is that bees are like dogs, they work better when handled by one keeper.

 

[BigShot]

Won't be putting hives on my plot, Rob.
I spoke to someone who has bees in his garden and he said he's never seen one of them forage on his flowers... they usually go a bit further afield, I'm told.

Thinking about it, I might see about putting some up above some land that's just used as a dumping ground for people who don't make their own compost (WHY???) as that way they should forage over all the plots.

Then again - I know for a fact some holders there use insecticide so maybe not.


For sure, top bar hives are less commercial than a National, having no super and all that, but I have a feeling that what's seen as normal commercial beekeeping is less than ideal. Each hive will almost certainly produce less honey than a national, but it may be better for the bees, and with the hives being so stupidly cheap (you can knock them together for pittance yourself) there's no reason not to have a pile of hives on the go at once, so the less-per-hive yield could well be balanced out.

One thing I found interesting was a sort of study of cell sizes. They took bees from a foundation system and put them into a top bar hive (I think) where they built comb slightly smaller than the cells found on the foundation. Then they took bees from that to a new hive where the cells got smaller still. Long story short it took about 7 generations for the cell size to stabilise and it was definitely smaller than you see in most foundation.
I seem to recall reading that they also built different sized cells in the same hive for brood and for storage. I may be mistaken there though.

I can't say anything definitive as I can't back a word of it up right now, but I do remember reading it with an open mind, no preconceptions (having never kept bees before) and thinking it seemed like there was something really quiete unnatural and probably stressful (for the bees) about conventional frame+foundation bee keeping.

I watched a video of some top-bar keepers who had no more protection than a smoker and a white shirt creating artificial swarms and talking about their views on top-bar keeping. If I can find it somewhere I'll give you the link. Don't hold your breath though - it was quite a while back now.

In the mean time...
http://www.lulu.com/content/815182

If you've got the space and already know how bees are, I can't see any reason not to have a top bar setup on the go.

 

[swyn]

Thanks for that.

I'm in a similar situation to dogwood with making hives over this winter. Have just done a deal (literally this morning) for a nucleus in the spring. A friend of mine has captured a swarm in his garden using an old hive and with a honey swap these should be mine. Providing they get through the winter that is!

Swyn.

 

[dogwood]

Won't be putting hives on my plot, Rob.
I spoke to someone who has bees in his garden and he said he's never seen one of them forage on his flowers... they usually go a bit further afield, I'm told.

Thinking about it, I might see about putting some up above some land that's just used as a dumping ground for people who don't make their own compost (WHY???) as that way they should forage over all the plots.

Then again - I know for a fact some holders there use insecticide so maybe not.

Several weeks ago, I posted a story about backyard beekeepers in London to the site. The same week, there were several articles about rooftop beekeeping in Paris.

My plan is to keep mine in the backyard. San Francisco laws are bee friendly and permit it. I've spoken with my neighbors and they're happy about it (they'll get some honey, provided I succeed!)

If you have a backyard and there's enough room for it, you might consider putting a hive or two there.

For sure, top bar hives are less commercial than a National, having no super and all that, but I have a feeling that what's seen as normal commercial beekeeping is less than ideal.

As a complete novice I can only go with what I've read and been told by beekeepers in the local society. They're all using what you guys call "nationals" (supers, etc.) and prefer that approach.

I'm pretty well down the road on building up my supers and frames, but I see a lot of merit to the more natural nature of the top bar hive you fancy. If I succeed with the national my first year, I'll build some top bar hive too so I can compare them side-by-side.

Or if I get really ambitious, maybe I'll start off immediately with one of both -- although that might be too much for a rank beginner

 

[dogwood]

Dogwood, we keep bees at the farm, through these rough times we have managed to keep them alive but they have produced very little honey. this year we are hyper feeding them through the winter in the hope that they will be raring to go in spring. I've been trying to learn the art while they are going through a tough patch and it hasn't been easy.

Good for you for making the stab at it! And I hope you'll entertain a question or two as I start on this adventure.

When you say "these rough times" in respect to the bees are you referring to CCD or is it something environmental (weather, over use of pesticides, etc.)?

Since we've got some other newbies like me on the beekeeping front, maybe it will be time for a BCUK virtual beekeeping society...

 

[BigShot]

Dogwood...
It is my understanding that you can still do some distinctly more natural beekeeping in the more conventional kind of hives.

Using frames it's possible to do away with the foundation and let the bees build their own comb as they need it. I believe it could be possible to recreate, in some way, the closed-top nature of top bar hives to some extent too, though obviously bees need to move up between frames in the conventional hives so some concession would have to be made there.

A big part of the "natural" theory on beekeeping seems to be to let bees do what bees do, including comb building so simply dropping the artificial comb and the foundation would achieve that end.


I've actually thought about putting some top bar hives on the roof here. I have easy access to the roof through the loft windows so it could work... I have also considered making some indoor type hives in the eaves of the house (accessed through a hatch in the dwarf walls in the loft) though I have a feeling that would be more problematic than rooftop.

I hadn't realised it was so common though!

 

[dogwood]

I've actually thought about putting some top bar hives on the roof here. I have easy access to the roof through the loft windows so it could work... I have also considered making some indoor type hives in the eaves of the house (accessed through a hatch in the dwarf walls in the loft) though I have a feeling that would be more problematic than rooftop.

I hadn't realised it was so common though!

Here's the link I posted to another thread about urban beekeeping in the UK:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090920/ts_afp/britainenvironmentfarmbees

Here's the one in about Paris:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rap-for-frances-beleaguered-bees-1786874.html

As I've started to investigate it, I'm finding that urban beekeeping is catching on (at least with oddballs like us!)

In San Francisco, there's even a company that sells honey made in specific neighbors of your choice -- the idea being that by eating it, you build up an immunity to allergies native to your neighborhood.

Because San Francisco is so small and bees travel so far, I think it's kind of a goofy notion, but nonetheless it highlights how much urban beekeeping is happening inside of the city.

 

[BigShot]

Oi!
Who are you calling an oddball???

Well... now that you mention it I probably am a bit strange around the edges... camping without a tent, toilets or running water, growing my own food, making wine and wanting to keep bees...

Hi, my name's Big Shot and I'm an oddball.



On the immunity front. I'm a bit confused... I know clinical trials don't support the idea that local honey can help cure hayfever... I know this... but because I've had TWO variables this year I don't know which (if not both or neither) have had an effect.
Honey (never eaten it regularly - as in almost daily - until this year) and a new nasal spray technique.

I've suffered from hayfever really quite badly for YEARS. When I say I suffered I don't mean I sneezed a bit, got itchy eyes and got on with things... I had a hard time sleeping, felt like gouging my eyes out, couldn't breathe through my nose properly for months on end and basically shut myself indoors with the windows closed for as much of the summer as I could - summer was my official "least favourite" season, with spring a close second as the instant I smelled mown grass the problems started for another season. And all of that was WITH antihistamines and nasal spray!

Early this year I saw an allergy spcialist who confirmed I should be suffering all season as I have pretty strong reactions to grass, some trees, some flowers and weeds which pretty much covers the entire span of late spring and all of summer. She also confirmed that cats are the devil, but that's another issue.

She told me to use a steroidal nasal spray in a way I've never seen before (basically get your head upside down in any one of a number of funny looking ways). I took to it with so much gusto I modified the spray bottle to always work upside down (and only upside down).

This year I've hardly suffered at all - but I don't know if it's down to the spray, the roughly 1 tsp of honey per day (though not local honey) something else entirely or if I've just suddenly grown out of it.

Strange stuff.