Mini-Slingshot for nuts

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Oliver G

Full Member
Sep 15, 2012
392
286
Ravenstone, Leicestershire
Good Morning All,

Just seeing if anyone in the hive mind has any ideas on this; I need to get a bank line up a tree, about 10 m tall.

At the moment I've achieved it using an M12 nut and the mk1 arm but with all the skill and grace of a blind limp-wristed squid. Either I threw it with enough strength to pull up the bank line but it missed the branch I was aiming for or it followed a perfect arc but under the branch. I have tried this with a bankline tied to a whistling tip of an arrow but the arrow didn't have enough weight to bring the line back down.

Could anyone recommend a slingshot that could send an M16 nut (the M12 was a bit light) up and over a branch about 10m up with a reasonable degree of accuracy?

For context I use the bank line to pull up some paracord which supports a ham radio antenna so if I take the mobile station anywhere I need to put the lines up again.

Cheers,

Ollie
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,977
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S. Lanarkshire
I have a black widow that would probably do it, but it sounds like the job is a bit of a tangle.
Would one of the carbon fibre windsock poles not do the job ? I have one that's 10m when fully extended. Folds down to a rod a metre long.
 

MrEd

Life Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,148
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Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
I use an arborists throw bag to get a light weight line up - I throw to this height and more to string HF antenna wires up trees etc. took a bit of practice but I found it better than a catapult tbh. A cheap throw bag can be made from air gun pellets and an old sock

I have also used a large screw or nail through a potato - if it gets stuck you can just give the cord a hard pull and it will Come out of the potato!
 

SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
1,638
1,187
Ceredigion
I was going to suggest a throwline as well.

Or (and I'm only saying this to support you in your ham radio development) you could get/make yourself a second antenna... :p
 
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Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
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~Hemel Hempstead~
I've got a 1oz. round fishing weight on a braided nylon line that I either chuck up and over or use a catapult to shoot it over the branch.
 
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Crac

Member
Apr 5, 2023
33
21
North
Slingshots are only good at the small scale. Human fingers are for dexterity. Mechanical fingers are too slow and fiddly; often SO slow that the heat energy stored in the rubber is lost. This leads to a spiral of failure.


The back of an envelope calculations are that we need a certain amount of potential energy.

Energy_potential (J) = mass * gravity * height.
Energy_potential (J) = 0.5 kg * 10 N/kg[1] * 10 meters.
Energy = ~50 J.

[1] 9.80665

I’m just going to assume 500 grams is enough for the total of the rope and weight.


Energy Kinetic = 0.5 * m * v^2
50 J = 0.5 * 0.5 kg * v^2
v = (50 J / (0.5 * 0.5 Kg))^(1/2)
v = 14.142 m/s


A small M8 bolt (M8 by 10 mm long) with an extra nut would be a better choice. Tie a fixed loop to match the diameter of the bolt. Make sure this knot is “rocket tight”, and the loop remains a tight match to the bolt. This tiny bit of rope is to make the supreme sacrifice, it will not be reused. Attach bolt through loop and secure using second nut. The line should be completely secured.


You want to stick with small dense projectiles, these are easier to hold and much easier to correctly release.



So “what if”

My personal view, which you are free to disagree with is 16 lbf is plenty. (I have used 23.5 Kgf or 51.8 lbf draws too, with very different goals.)

So the draw weight is a maximum of 16 lbf.


Ergonomically, a ¾ butterfly draw is the most powerful.
I’ve added a little extended fork, because why not... (OK maybe more than a little.)
I’ve set the draw distance as 132 cm, (Purely from the goal of cutting 7 blocks of a piece of flatband.)


Energy estimate: 48.4 J or 35.7 ft-lb
Speed estimate: 13.91 m/s

(These are my old assumptions…) If I use a ball of string, I need a bigger pouch. I quickly throw this out, The only slightly sneaky variable is the density of the ball of string. 500 kg/m^3 ?



Let’s re-do that draw length part, and think a little bigger!


I’ve set the draw distance as 157 cm.
(Purely from the goal of cutting 6 blocks of a piece of flatband!)


Energy estimate: 57.1 J or 42.1 ft-lb
Speed estimate: 15.1 m/s


Flatband stock:

0.7 mm thick, 150 mm wide and 2 meter long.

I choose the thickness to match the draw force I wanted. Most stock rolls are the size as above.


Bands needed:

33.33 cm long, I was aiming for 6 blocks from a 2 meter roll.

Each block can be cut to make 4 sets of bands.
Each piece of rubber tapers from ~21 mm at the fork to ~16 mm at the pouch.
By stacking individual pieces of rubber left to right, then right to left you should have neat little rectangle boxes, it’s less wear on the rotary knife and no wasted rubber.

The bands are to be tied to 28.9 cm.


Draw force: 15.72 lbf or 7.13 Kgf


Because I’m pulling a wild guess out of thin air for the weight of the string… the results are pretty meaningless. However the design of the bands is as good as I can do. With a suitable pouch (remember the pouch needs to be accelerated too!) you should get most of the performance.



If you want a peek behind the curtain:

I figure for a given draw that I can 'guess' the speed, with mathematics we can happily set the answer to whatever we like ;) Some simple rules, some healthy number crunching by a computer a few iterations... "edit that part out!" :p

So I figure14.75 m/s would be about right. By the power of strong nerdom I guess 278 grams would work. (This is the weight plus ball of string.)

Next I make it big guess of how dense this ball of string should be. (Technically a suitable 'carrier' like an M8 bolt should also be capable of taking ALL the energy without exceeding 61 m/s or 200 fps ... Accelerating things is pretty difficult, even with a very long draw.) An arborists throw bag is likely to be much much heavier than what I'm thinking. I might believe they got this part right.

So I'm left trying to guess the density of the string... which might as well be a dodgy black box. This is used to size the leather pouch. And I'm counting the weight of the leather...

So my latest answer is:
278 grams at 14.24 m/s or 46.7 fps giving 28.3 J or 20.9 ft-lb.



Q1. What about one of those dog ball throwing aids ?

Or using an Atlatl to throw a spear with line you know a bit of bushcraft.
 

MrEd

Life Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,148
1,056
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
I was going to suggest a throwline as well.

Or (and I'm only saying this to support you in your ham radio development) you could get/make yourself a second antenna... :p
Don’t, I don’t need the encouragement as the wife will kill me! I am always messing around with various HF antennas - I don’t operate from home, only out portable :)
 
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Oliver G

Full Member
Sep 15, 2012
392
286
Ravenstone, Leicestershire
Plenty of good ideas here, thank you all. I made up a 10m dipole last night so I'll try these out over the week. I think the fiberglass pole would be handy if I go somewhere without trees but also as a delivery method. I'm working from home tomorrow so I can have the radio on in the background, I'll call CQ on 29.6 MHz to see if anyone is about.
 
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SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
1,638
1,187
Ceredigion
Plenty of good ideas here, thank you all. I made up a 10m dipole last night so I'll try these out over the week. I think the fiberglass pole would be handy if I go somewhere without trees but also as a delivery method. I'm working from home tomorrow so I can have the radio on in the background, I'll call CQ on 29.6 MHz to see if anyone is about.
I you get a telescopic pole, make a short (ca 40 cm or so) outer holder out of PVC pipe, with a sawtooth edge at the bottom and some guylines attached to the top. That way you can keep the pole upright as you're getting it set up even in a bit of wind.
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,977
4,624
S. Lanarkshire
My windsock poles fit over a ground spike. It's basically a sharp pointed metal rod and the bottom pole section just drops over it. It kind of rattles around a bit but it stays in place. Easy enough to fit a bit of bike tyre inner tube around that bottom section though and fasten some lines to that to peg out to provide extra stability.
The ground spike fits alongside the folded down pole and I just fasten the two together with another bit of bike tyre inner tube. So far they've lasted for years :)
 

MrEd

Life Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,148
1,056
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
Plenty of good ideas here, thank you all. I made up a 10m dipole last night so I'll try these out over the week. I think the fiberglass pole would be handy if I go somewhere without trees but also as a delivery method. I'm working from home tomorrow so I can have the radio on in the background, I'll call CQ on 29.6 MHz to see if anyone is about.

I will try get on, but will need to get out and about with the radio - have put it on charge, will see if I can hear you. Where abouts are you?

I use a sotabeams end fed for 10m, but have a linked dipole aswell
 

MrEd

Life Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,148
1,056
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
My windsock poles fit over a ground spike. It's basically a sharp pointed metal rod and the bottom pole section just drops over it. It kind of rattles around a bit but it stays in place. Easy enough to fit a bit of bike tyre inner tube around that bottom section though and fasten some lines to that to peg out to provide extra stability.
The ground spike fits alongside the folded down pole and I just fasten the two together with another bit of bike tyre inner tube. So far they've lasted for years :)

I use similar on my windsock pole except carbon fibre spike. I also have a drive on mount :)
 
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SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
1,638
1,187
Ceredigion
I use similar on my windsock pole except carbon fibre spike. I also have a drive on mount :)
I’ve got a drive on mount too that I use on the patio. With a kettle bell on the plate and it velcro strapped to a leg of the outdoor wooden coffee table.
 
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1 pot hunter

Banned
Oct 24, 2022
379
84
31
Sheffield
Good Morning All,

Just seeing if anyone in the hive mind has any ideas on this; I need to get a bank line up a tree, about 10 m tall.

At the moment I've achieved it using an M12 nut and the mk1 arm but with all the skill and grace of a blind limp-wristed squid. Either I threw it with enough strength to pull up the bank line but it missed the branch I was aiming for or it followed a perfect arc but under the branch. I have tried this with a bankline tied to a whistling tip of an arrow but the arrow didn't have enough weight to bring the line back down.

Could anyone recommend a slingshot that could send an M16 nut (the M12 was a bit light) up and over a branch about 10m up with a reasonable degree of accuracy?

For context I use the bank line to pull up some paracord which supports a ham radio antenna so if I take the mobile station anywhere I need to put the lines up again.

Cheers,

Ollie
The Scout by simpleshot
 
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Falstaff

Member
Feb 12, 2023
39
27
68
Berkshire
I had to bring down some branches recently using a 16mm rope, similar sort of height - after unsuccessful trys to hand throw it I used a couple of foot of batten as a makeshift atal. couple of tries and it went over each branch fine - had a car towing hook as the weight, then shake the rope until it dropped to hand height.
I think a light line onto a tennis ball and dog throw is a safer bet though if this is to be a regular occurrence
 
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Crac

Member
Apr 5, 2023
33
21
North
Why not make a fine 'incision' and load that tennis ball with sand/gravel?
(I still really like the idea of that magical toy to throw the ball.)
And it's an easier piece of technology.

But a heavy dart will punch through the leaf canopy. I've been using this a lot with some storm damaged trees recently.
 
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Falstaff

Member
Feb 12, 2023
39
27
68
Berkshire
The tree surgeons professional version is pretty neat but OTT for this. They use a sort of pendulum-shaped fabric sandbag on a light line and fire it up to the top of even tall trees, and thru foliage, using a strong Butterfly catapult. Friend of mine showed me how he sometimes stretches his bands over 2m down his gound pole to fire it huge distances. Apparently they sometimes have to fire from outside the tree canopy, and even over house roofs.
This is also a technique used to get abseil ropes over houses for solar installers safety harness to clip onto. (You anchor it down on the other side of the roof to where you are working). In theory I should be doing this for my work but as I'm usually on the ridge/both sides I don,t, much easier to attach it to the sleigh.....
 

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