Knife users perspective wanted - Why drop the point?

[greencloud]

Comparing puukko styles to other hunter & 'classic bushcrafter' profiles got me thinking.

There are some classic blade profiles that have very obvious designs, like skinners and sheepsfoot to avoid unwanted levels of pointy/poky/stabbyness.

What is the purpose in dropping the point down on spear, drop and clip type blades? I lack real world usage experience, so I hope you keen users could fill me in on the different purposes or any advantage specific to the point position. For example a woodlore type profile compared to a mora shape straight spine.

Cheers.

 

[Janne]

The classic Scandinavian shape I would think is easier to manufacture.
Basically a strip of steel with a frontal belly then making a tip. Also you have the same thickness of the steel virtually all the way to the tip, so it does not break so easily.

Another aspect is that the "Mora" shape is using very little material, they are narrow. Steel was very expensive in the past. Hence the rat tails.
Also the tip is sharp. But strong.
Blades with a drop are usually wider, plus the tip is not as pointy.

I am not a blacksmith, so could be incorrect!

 

[Stew]

I believe something like a woodlore having a spear point was to have the point quite central for drilling.

A drop point has the point slightly away from the main line of the tang to stop the point snagging into the meat when unzipping animals from the inside out.

 

[Broch]

I agree with Stew. I don't know if it's designed for that purpose but I gut small game with the knife edge facing up and my finger under the point of the knife to protect it from breaking into the intestines so I like a knife with a little 'drop' off the spine to accommodate my finger and maintain a shallow cutting angle at the same time. Of course, that's not all I use my knife for - they have to be versatile tools for me.

So, choose a knife that suits what you want to do with it

 

[Nice65]

So, choose a knife that suits what you want to do with it

Well that’s my excuse for the serious overload I’ve had in the past.

Totally agree with you and Stew over control of the tip, it needs to be felt and seen. While a stiletto type blade is very pointed, it’s actually not good for much other than piercing. A clip point allows for more detailed cutting and is seen on many hunting knives. It also puts pressure towards the back of the knife, making folders more balanced in use. I have a decent scar from a SAK that closed on me while piercing, if the point had been in a clip style, the tip would have been higher with some belly to the lower part of the blade, and my finger would have been within the unsharpened spine of the blade to limit penetration and improve control. I generally carry a Spyderco Urban daily, and even put my finger on the spine to pierce film lids on food and postal package to avoid stabbing the contents.

That’s my limited view on the whole OP question, it’s a blade control and usage thing. It’s a good question and I’m looking forward to reading more. For me, they’re often just aesthetically pleasing, but there’s more to it than that.

 

[Erbswurst]

Doesn't the Pukko, the Opinel and other knives like that have the tip higher, because the blade isn't very high?

And when the blade is high a drop point gives the blade the more or less same shape?

(The SAK has the drop point because like this the blade fits better in the small handle. French knives avoid it.)

 

[Robson Valley]

Look at the hearth board (cedar). A row of conical holes with notches.
Imagine the knife point profile to carve those (without stabbing yourself ion the thigh.)

The top knife is a Mocotaugan design of the Sheffield type sold by the Hudson's Bay Company, pre 1800.
The stubby is a very old Kershaw.
The skinny is the French Laguoile.

 

[Robson Valley]

One at a time:

 

[Nomad]

Doesn't the Pukko, the Opinel and other knives like that have the tip higher, because the blade isn't very high?

And when the blade is high a drop point gives the blade the more or less same shape?

They can if they're made to have a similar angle at the tip between the cutting edge and the spine. The difference is that the angle of the handle with respect to the workpiece differs when the tip is oriented in a given way to the workpiece. Imagine cutting a divot for a bow drill. With a spear point, the handle is in a certain orientation when the cutting edge at the tip is where you want it, and in a different orientation with a Pukko (more tilted back with the overall cutting edge facing upwards). Whether one or the other is better maybe depends on how you apply the cutting force, and which feels right and more controllable.

Woodlore clone and Mora robust...



The Mora is a little fatter at the tip, but it's clear that, with the cutting edges at the tips held in roughly the same orientation to an imaginary workpiece, the handle is oriented quite differently between the two.

 

[Erbswurst]

This Mora doesn't have a traditional Scandinavian design.

The old knifes usually didn't have so high blades.

 

[Janne]

The classic shape is about 1/3 less high.

With the classic Mora shaped handle ( virtually round) it is easy to use as a hand drill.

 

[Erbswurst]

My father bought one in Lapland in the fifties which even had been lower. Nearly a stiletto.

The blade had to fit in a sheath made from bone. And how Janne wrote: Steel was expensive, when the original design was created.

 

[Janne]

Not in the 40’s?
Scandinavia and Finland was a very popular destination for German tourists then.
Kind of a YMCA . Without the C


Narrow height blades are also easier to carve with if you carve curves and such.

 

[Erbswurst]

No, he was born in 1935.

To small to get a free ticket in the forties.

 

[Robson Valley]

The old stubby Kershaw dates back to the original Oregon days. My mother picked it out for me for my birthday.
For the first time, I actually polished the brass just the other day. How domestic. (35 years?)
NOMAD talks about "cutting a divot for a bowdrill." He is so on the money. What's the knife supposed to do?
Form and function. Skinners aren't the best of prep knive shapes.

The Kershaw is a really fat blade and makes just the right wall-angled divots in the hearth board.
The Mocotaugan was never meant for this, as designed for HBC.
The Laguoille makes a divot with steep side walls of little surface area.

That bow drill is a lifetime pair of Ravens holding the cord (#18 tarred nylon seine twine) in their beaks.
The copper inlay for the eyes denotes wealth and prosperity for the gifted owner. He uses the kit.
The stain is the antique iron/vinegar.

 

[greencloud]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm really enjoying the perspectives given.

This is a big part of my fascination with knives, since blades were one of - if not the earliest tools on the path of human evolution. All of the 'classic' features of knives evolved for various purposes and reasons which are sadly becoming lost to our plastic-packaged consumer civilisation.

I think I need to spend a bit more time in the woods!