Jungle kit help (Costa Rica)

[bertles86]

Hi folks,

In the summer I am off on expedition with Raleigh to Costa Rica and Nicaragua for 10 weeks and need a few tips on my kit list.

The main things are a 65-85L rucksack and boots!

Now for a rucksack my research leads me to believe one of these would best:

Karrimor Sabre 75
Karrimor Sabre 60-100
Lowe Alpine TFX Outback 65:80
Berghaus Expedition 80

For boots:

US Army Jungle boots with the drainage holes, and canvas ankles
Scarpa Hydrogen Mesh

Now I am leaning towards Sabre 60-100 + US jungle boots because, I think the boots will dry faster than the Scarpa and the rucksack has a superb rep wherever I look.

Could anyone confirm/deny this for me?

Also is anyone aware of a shop where I could try on a Sabre pack in Kent/Sussex/London? I've looked at Karrimor stockists and rung all the ones in Kent/Sussex and most of London and no one seems to stock them!

Any help at all is most welcome.

P.S. I am on a serious budget here, another choice for the US boots (£35) and not Scarpa (£75+)!

 

[bushblade]

Sounds amazing. I don't have any jungle experience but I have spent a fair bit of time in the tropics.
I would advise against the US army jungle boots, I didn't find them at all comfortable. I got a pair of Altberg jungle boots instead and they are much superior in every way I even wear them over here when its warm. They are much more comfortable, better made, better fit and have a stiffer mid sole.

I also own a sabre 60-100 but don't use it that often, its quite a heavy pack with lots of straps/zips and fiddly bits. I use my sabre 45 and side pockets in the tropics. If I were to get one now of the larger capacity, I'd go for the sabre 75 and side pockets, much simpler design and more versitile IMO.

 

[BOD]

US army boots are fine if you are able to try and fit the pair to your feet. mail order means painful feet usually. I use US Altamas.

Remember these are made under Pentagon contracts which means poor oversight on quality control, low cost and exploited minority workers who "pay back" uncle Sam with occassional shoddy work. Not to mention corruption.

It is not uncommon to find large variations between two boots supposedly the same size.

Jungle-re gave me a lead to the Hi-tech jungle boot which is cheaper than the Altbergs.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/s.../new-hi-tec-magnum-genuine-combat-547917.html

I recall when i was still in Brunei individual Ghurkas were replacing their issue boots with Hi Tech Magnums

Here is what the junglemen say

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12324

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=235079

 

[SMARTY]

Add a good water purifiier to your list.

 

[Rob]

I love my Altbergs. I have some jungle lites, but if you are going deep into the filth then I would think about their other version that comes with a sole that will slef clean a bit more.

Nothing wrong with US issue boots, if you get a good fit. Be aware that there are some jungle style boots out there that seem to have a habit of detatching themselves from the soles when they get used - so remember that saving a few quid might leave you with a problem when you are in the trees.

I wouldn't worry too much about boot drying times. You are going to be wet a lot and you wont care once you get in to the routine of getting back in to your wet kit every morning.

 

[Ross Bowyer]

Hi,

I would be very careful about the boots you buy, poor quality/ill fitting boots will ruin a jungle trip.

I have seen the £35 jungle boots fall apart after two days in the jungle, some even have cardboard insoles which will tear up your feet after they get wet.

I find the Altberg boots have to much foam padding, which will hold on to water and increase the chance of friction blisters.

Avoid the Scapa boots as the tread is no where near deep enough for the jungle, you will spend most of your time getting very acquainted with the jungle floor!

My choice would be for Altma Mil Spec boots with a good chunky Panama sole.

http://www.altama.com/products/23-Black-Jungle-Mil-Spec-Boot

or

http://www.altama.com/products/14-Olive-Drab-Jungle-Vulcanized-Boot

They are not perfect but are much better then most.

A very important aspect is your jungle routine. Every evening wash out your socks and boots (to remove any sand), massage, dry, powder (Mycil Athlete's Foot powder) and air your feet.

If you have any other questions just shout.

Enjoy your trip

Ross

 

[bertles86]

Thanks for all the quick replies people, really helpful.

So it seems as if many of you rave about Altbergs? Trouble is looking at them, they are way out of my range, I'm looking at the £35-75 range for a pair of boots. £100+ just in possible considering the pile of other stuff on my list!

So how do I tell if the US army one's I'm looking at are going to fall apart? My local mil-surp store has them in several sizes/widths and the chap who runs it *seems* to know what he's talking about being an ex-para but then how do I know if he's just trying to sell me junk?

Thanks also for the threads BOD, good reading there.

Smarty - I am looking at getting a purifier cap for my Siggs as opposed to iodine tabs, that sound okay? I could put my whole kitlist up if you guys aren't averse to helping a total ignoramus?

So any ideas on trying a Sabre 75 on in Kent/Sussex?

 

[bertles86]

Ross,

The Altama look good at $90 which is c. £60? Should I try to find a shop in the UK to try them on first as they do the whole normal/wide sizing which I'm unsure of.

Are there UK stockists? Or do they ship from the US?

 

[Ross Bowyer]

I have just done a quick google search and found them for sale here:

http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/select.asp

I have not bought from them before and am in now way connected.

Maybe they will allow you to try them on and send them back if they don't fit? worth a try.

Regarding rucksacks:

How long will you be in the trees for? 100ltr is a big old bag to carry into the jungle where you need relatively few things. I have used the Sabre 45 with side pockets and that has been fine for two weeks in the jungle.

Hope this helps

Ross

 

[Bravo4]

So how do I tell if the US army one's I'm looking at are going to fall apart?

Smarty - I am looking at getting a purifier cap for my Siggs as opposed to iodine tabs, that sound okay? I could put my whole kitlist up if you guys aren't averse to helping a total ignoramus?

Like BOD said, quality of these boots, same NSN, vary. I got along well with US jungle boots, was my favorite service boot for many years. Some guys hated them but they worked well for me. I replaced the inner-soles with a pair from some old running shoes which helped a lot with comfort. Whatever boot you go with, get em' on your feet and get used to them before you head off. Decent socks always help.

For H2O I would take iodine and a filter, also a larger/alternate container for H2o than a Sigg.

Sounds like a great trip.

 

[SMARTY]

Just out of interest, what advice did you get from Raleigh about kit, footwear etc?

 

[BOD]

You can get Altama's at Silverman's in the UK. that's where I got mine.

Welco are also okay. But try them out. Unless you have feet narrow as a Renaissance Madonna get the wide fit.

SIGG is useless - mouth too narrow and small capacity. just get a crusader around your waist and carry the rest in plastic soft drink bottles once in central america. Bladders will be a pain to fill and keep the mouth piece clean.

I too am curious about the kit list. I have seen Raliegh people snaking their way up Kinabalu to 11,000 feet with HUGE backpacks like zombies. Ouch! Learn to pack light.

Remember that Raleigh do not go into real jungle. You are in deep and even remote by civilised standards maybe but its all done on established trails. the Jungle boots will be good though on steep slopes and river crossings and crossings streams on logs

have fun. it is worthwhile

 

[bertles86]

Thanks again chaps for all the replies.

Raleigh state regarding boots:

If you are buying new, get a fabric boot if possible as these tend to dry quicker (you are likely to be walking through streams where water will come in over the top of your boots). Leather is OK if that’s what you already have, but not highly recommended. It can be very wet and leather boots can be hard to dry out.

And packs:

The capacity of the rucksack should be 65-75 litres for women and 65-85 litres for men. Your rucksack will be used to carry not only your own personal kit on project site but potentially team food and equipment. If you are buying new, it is worth getting a rucksack from a reputable manufacturer. Ensure that the rucksack fits your back length well and that it has an internal frame and padded hip belt.

So are Altama's and Wellco's the only US boots I want to touch re. quality? As any UK stockist seems to be around the £100 mark, would my local mil-surp shop offering US jungle boots at £35-40 be poor quality? In that case would be better off steering clear of military boots altogether and going the Nomad/Cotswold route of a pair of Scarpa/Hi-Tec? I genuinely need a pack and boots for £200...£215 tops! And if a Sabre 75 which I seem to have settled on now comes in at £140 ish, that leaves £60-75 for boots!

 

[bertles86]

Oh and I've got some bits off my kit list already but the remainder looks like this:

• 2-3L Water pouch (Camelbak, Platypus etc)?
• Dry Bags (recommend 1 big, 1 small)
• First Aid Kit
• Fleece
• Gaffa Tape
• Gloves (Outdoor Working)
• Hat (Wide brimmed Sun hat)
• Map Case
• Mosquito Net
• Poncho
• Sandals
• Sarong
• Sewing Kit
• Shirts (2 long sleeved)
• Shorts (2)
• Sleeping Bag Liner - Silk
• Socks (4-7 including 2 pairs walking socks)
• Sunglasses
• Sweatshirt
• Trousers(2)
• T-shirts (2)
• Wash Kit
• Underarmour Mid-thigh lycra shorts

The last I've stuck in after reading these forums

 

[mark wood]

Knives , machetes and multitools?

 

[bertles86]

Yup got my self a BA lock knife, machete's etc come with the expedition I believe I aint going to try and wield one of those through customs!

 

[Bravo4]

As any UK stockist seems to be around the £100 mark, would my local mil-surp shop offering US jungle boots at £35-40 be poor quality?

Knock-offs or used I would think.

Not a shoe for humping 100l rucks and I'll bet some of you guys will be
but....I like Chuck Taylor high-tops; dry quickly, drain holes, cheap as dirt. Somewhere around here I have a photo of an SF guy,(early Nam era) heading out on patrol with a couple of Montagnards, all wearing Chucks.

If you have the maps already you could waterproof them with something like Map Seal by Aquaseal. The maps will be more durable and you can do without a waterproof map case.

fun fun fun, I want to go

 

[Rob]

As above, if you come across something new for £35, probably made in china - avoid it. The last ones that I saw go badly wrong came in green (as an option). Cant remember where the guy had got them. You can get good deals on unissued kit, so keep your eyes open.

Dont know what you will get up to with Raleigh, but as Ross said, the routine is really important if you want to stay in good condition. Nightly dunk and scrub in the river. Go in with your clothes on and wash and strip as you go. Extra attention to pressure points. Make sure that you secure everything before you go in - it is a bummer if your bottle of soap floats away into the distance.

Dont forget to wash your dry kit when you are sure that you can get it dry. Nothing better than drying off, sorting your feet (inc anti-fungal powder) and getting in to your dry set of clothes.

Enough dry bags, so that you can waterproof your compartmentalised kit. Vital kit and whatever you need to make a dry home at the top. Zip lock bags to make really sure on some items.

Try and make sure that the sandals secure well to your feet. If you get soem with toe protection it will also help. Shuffling your feet in the river when you get in helps the local wildlife know that you are coming and go away before you get there.

Enjoy

 

[johnboy]

Thanks for all the quick replies people, really helpful.

So it seems as if many of you rave about Altbergs? Trouble is looking at them, they are way out of my range, I'm looking at the £35-75 range for a pair of boots. £100+ just in possible considering the pile of other stuff on my list!

-:snip:-

So any ideas on trying a Sabre 75 on in Kent/Sussex?

What you may want to consider is spending more of your budget on boots that will do the job and less on a bergen...

You could speak to the boys at Endicotts who have a very good reputation for pragmatic advice and customer service to see what decent bergens they have in stock..

Such as:


http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1318

Or....

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1867

Either of them would seem to fit the bill against the advice Op Raleigh are giving you and are cheaper then plumping for a brand new Sabre which'll end up looking pretty worn after a while in the Ulu. Both are well constructed and 'as good' as a Sabre 75.. Although the DPM on the Lowe Alpine packs might not be a wise move in Central America. You should then come in on budget and have enough for a Spanish phrase book...

Happy travels...

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

i've had altamas from silvermans, loads of them, i'm a uk 12 but found the us 12 fine in these boots, they stretch a bit too, silvermans only ever provide 12w for 12 wide, they have always been fine and use 2 pairs of socks with the especially as they slacken off.

i did get my last pair off the bay for about £15! bit of a top buy, they were 'belleville' made, as good as my altama versions, they were older style though, no padding around the collar and green canvas instead of black cordura as they are now, more difficult to get on but still great, had those in 12Regular, they stretched out to be spot on but it took some serious wearing in to get them there!
i lived in mine, and the desert boot versions, in fact, i need some more! lol
have fun...