Is willow toxic

[kernelpanic]

I want to try the method Ben orford has on you tube to make whistles from willow for my kids. But reading online get mixed opinions if willow sap/bark is toxic to people due to the salacilic acid in it.
is willow sap/bark toxic, does it depend on the variety of willow.
Any advice appreciated.
Regards
Kev

 

[Robson Valley]

Although the amount varies, all Salix sp. have Salicylic acid in the inner bark.
Toxic in the sense that it's the crude sbustrate for making acetylsalicylic acid = ASA = Aspirin.
The deal is that it is abundant and the bark slips very easily in the spring during sapflow.

One of my kids really reacts badly/rash to handling willow, the other kid exhibits no reaction, like me.
I'll guess that working the wood and bark in water will leach out a lot of the acid.
I cannot suggest a substitute.

 

[kernelpanic]

Hi Robson,
I can wash the wood/bark and check on myself first. Then only let the kids do it a little.
I played with willow lads as a kid for now making and never got any issues but I guess putting in your music ugh is more risky. I can look at other ways to make a whistle from wood I know is safe like birch

 

[Robson Valley]

Well, bungle along. I doubt that you will encounter any hypersensitivity. Reaction is individual.
Reminds me of very long ago and far away when Dad got us making willow whistles.

Here in the early spring, March, there's still a lot of snow on the ground. Pregnant cow moose
will move from winter range to the willow flats along the rivers to give birth.
The cow moose browse enormous quantities of willow twigs just before giving birth.
Analgesic, probably.

 

[kernelpanic]

Sounds good, will try It on myself and I guess in small quantities will be fine. Bought myself a Ben orford nomad so been testing it out on carving so planned on a whistle next

 

[Robson Valley]

Dosage is often figured on a per kilogram body weight, a little for you can be a lot for a kid.
Just don't fall in love with the first one, or two or three. Whistles, that is.

 

[Janne]

No, it is not toxic. The amount of the acid you might ingest when you use the pipe will not even cure the slightest headache....

I am surprised anybody knows how to make a Willow pipe these days!
I recall dad gently tapping the bark to free it up from the wood before he crafted the pipe. Half a Century ago!

 

[Robson Valley]

Exactly, Janne. After a few cuts, Dad would turn his pocket knife around and beat all over the bark to make it easier to slip off as a tube.
Does your old "Boy Sprouts" book have a tutorial?

 

[Janne]

I do not know. I doubt it, but I will try to find the book, so back in a sec!

 

[Janne]

]I do not know. 320 pages of pure Scouting and real Bushcraft!
Btw it is a 'Ninth Edition 1920' and not an earlier one as I thought!

 

[Robson Valley]

1. Get set up for where you want the picture to appear in a BCUK thread
2. Find PB and right click to see it open in a New Tab.
3. Pick the Folder then double click on the picture of choice.
4. RC and select 'Copy Image Location'
5. Now, LC in the middle of the BCUK tab
6. LC on the little icon that says Insert Image
7. When you see the available open line box, paste the image location in there AND, LC on OK.

Now you see the URL but it has or something like that at both ends.
The picture should appear when you post to the thread.

NOTE: I've found that trying to edit and add the IMG thing does no more than wipe out the link.
Since it's upscrewed, you might as well mess wit it and see what happens.

 

[Janne]

It worked domehow, not dure how. I have an Ipad.

 

[FGYT]

Made slide whistles from Rowan in the spring as the bark slips off easy . Never tried willow none about where I grew up

 

[Toddy]

We used elder last time we made them.
Come to think on it, did Jon not do an article on that ?

I'll find a link

M
p.s. Link

www.jonsbushcraft.com/elderwhistle.htm

 

[kernelpanic]

Thanks for the link the elder whistle looks good, will give that a go in the garden later

 

[Toddy]

Jon's stuff is good

As for the willow being toxic, I can only recount that I spent an entire Summer demonstrating and making willow bast cordage. I can tell you that goat willow is so called because it tastes sweeter than any of the others, and I reckon the goat's prefer it.
I do know that I didn't have a single ache that Summer either so I guess there was just enough salicylic stuff in the bark to work wonders (yes, I did use my teeth to trim off ends, etc., I was working in the bronze, v. early iron age)

I reckon that Robson Valley has it right; unless someone's actually allergic to aspirin, then I really don't think there'd be a problem.

Elder, Rowan, Willow… we used them all as kids, and while it doesn't seem to have done any of us any harm, modern kids don't get grubbily filthy outside playing day after day after day the way we did when growing up…so, hmmm, I'd do it, but I don't know whether some H&S requirements mean that you should or shouldn't.
Sorry, not being much help

M

 

[Toddy]

While I mind, other toys for kids…
Mors demonstrated these at the Moot too, and George wrote it up.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18736

 

[Robson Valley]

I had to deal with a fairly severe contact dermatitis, twice, before we figured out what it was.
Just bear in mid that it's possible.

Thanks for the elder whistle link, I must try that.
Bears claim patches of forest with openings growing elder.

 

[kernelpanic]

Like the look of the whimmy diddle, will have to try that on the kids they they will love it

 

[Alan 13~7]

I don't know what online reading you have already done KP but maybe this web site might be of some interest if you have not already seen it http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/atoz/salix_alba.htm