how long is green green?

[badgeringtim]

So,
Im hoping i can get some advice on two things;
Like many here I don't have the luxury of being able to get or cut wood when green as and when i wish and i am looking to make a large trug. Im not sure if thats entirely the right term, a similar shaped to a very large dough bowl but about 4 foot long and as wide as the wood i can get, around 18" hopefully.

Firstly i have found some large ash and some decent sized alder - all cut just before xmas. Im wondering if its worth having a go with either or if they will be too dried out to be worth attempting. Also is wood cut in the winter less 'green' than if cut in the spring?

Secondly on something that size i would basically want to use most of the split half to maxamise the size. Im concerned that a large log has more chance of splitting as there are more rings and so more difference from the outside to the middle.

Any advice/comments very much appreciated, especially on how long wood stays green, or green 'enough'.

thanks

 

[Kerne]

Cut just before Christmas, the ash should still be OK - especially if it has been kept outdoors.

As far as I know, "green" refers to unseasoned. It may well be wetter when cut with the sap flowing in spring or summer, but it is essentially the same. I cut some ash late last winter and, when I try to burn it now, some is still a little "too green." (Possibly should have stored it better.)

 

[robin wood]

That is a pretty ambitious project to go at what sort of tools and experience do you have?
Certainly they will still be green enough to work well, the alder will be far easier and better for this project than the ash, cut several inches off each end of the log before you start as there will undoubtedly be some radial splits near the end. Keep iot wrapped in a bag when not working it and make sure you get rid of all the central growth rings or it will split.

 

[badgeringtim]

Robin,

Yeah i can see how it would be a big job, i have a small adze which i have tried on things about a foot long and didnt feel i was getting the best out of the tool, like with more space and a bit more welly i could move a lot more wood. Having said that the technique with the Adze on small bowls seems very 'wristy' and does tire the arm rapidly. I think a longer curve will allow for more 'arm', but i am happy to be corrected.
The other main tool i planned on using was a kent pattern small axe, although i would probably treat myself to what i call a hand and a half axe - my decent one is in Norway...and never been used yet :-(

You mention the central growth rings - how far do you need to take out? I mean there is no discernable point where the central rings end, is there?

After spliting it i would probably get it roughed out on the back with an axe (possibly saw first), then adze the bowl and draw knife the 'Top' to cut back the smallest rings. I figure if i leave that till last there is a bit of leeway if i miss-adze at any point..i know that thinner means less likely to split but i do want something strong so am thinking that at least an inch thickness is required - probably closer to two cos im a scaredy and wouldnt want to ruin it.

I have some gouges but im not sure they are really bulky enough for the job - which leads me to another possibly dum question. Ashley Isles gouges - would one use a mallet with them. Having spent my hard earned money i want them to last and i think they should be malletable on green wood but just double checking?

If this is just clearly too much can anyone suggest alternatives which work the same skills as practices?

I think the main limiting factor is that i dont have a garage or shed so am limited to daylight hours borrowing a friends garden so can really only do 1 days worth on it before the week sets in and it wouldnt be worked for the week and i suspect with the best will it will still dry out in this time (in a bag in the garden i am assuming to be the best location?

Oh i noticed some willow of similar dimensions but i am thinking the ash is easiest to split and carve right. i am doing some small Alder bowls at the mo and finding them surprisingly tough.

So sorry bit of an essay there, but now you all have my life story please feel free to comment!

 

[robin wood]

Thickness anything over 1/2" will increase stress and likelyhood of cracking. You can leave a sort of shelf around the top edge particularly at the ends which form handles if you like but thin walls are important.

Ash will be much harder than the alder you are working, willow would be slightly easier, I am assuming it is all straight and knot free.

Ashley Isles gouges are designed to be hot with a mallet but are not hooped like Karlssons say so I would go at them gently with a carving mallet but not welly them with anything big.

An 18" log I would be loosing the central wood to about an inch below the central pith.

It will not dry significantly in a week if tightly wrapped in a bin bag.

Alternatives? I recommend starting hewing bowls around 15-18" long out of 6-8" diameter trees but maybe that is what you are working on now.

What are you going to do with this thing when you have done? They make them still in Romania for slaughtering pigs and rising large quantities of bread dough.

 

[badgeringtim]

Well i have seen some large items like this in norway - specifically my girlfriends family have one made by her grandfather and it just seems like such a beautiful object and rather than buying one i thought it would make a good project for working up my arm muscles on the Adze!

The last things i have tried on were about a 14"&18" oak - which was hard to start with and got very hard very quickly - they are roughed out to but too tough to do anything with now. Then did a smaller birch - much easier and log was dryer, but not broad enough for what i want.

Having read your comments i think i might try something smaller to lessen the risk of messing it all up, i just dont know when i will come accross anything this size again. Excepting i just found out about a 'medium tree' chainsaw course who will be taking some sycamore, another good wood i think. So will have to keep an eye on that.
So maybe a practice on something as you say a 18" or so, worth knowing that the willow might be easier. I thought the fibers tended to be twisted together which made them hard to split hence being the preference for shields - cricket bats etc.
not i know i wont simply be fighting an uphill battle - guess what i will be upto this weekend. Shame i dont have a garden or i would have got a few bits and seen if anyone wanted to have a mini meet.

Cheers for the comments Robin - appreciated.