Elbow Adze on applewood

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Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
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~Hemel Hempstead~
I've fancied having an adze to have a play with for a while and after seeing Forginhill's one I decided to bite the bullet and get a certain blacksmith from Dartmoor to forge one for me :)

I've had it since early March but only just been able to get around to mounting it on an applewood handle. It looks good but having never done one before I didn't get the angles quite right so I need to strip it down and change the fit a bit or go in search of a new handle :rolleyes:

Anyway as they say on the forum it didn't happen without pics so here they are





 
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rorymax

Settler
Jun 5, 2014
943
0
Scotland
I'm impressed by your first attempt, pity it did not work out for you.

No point in shaping down the handle on something that did not work, understandable.

I bet your next one will be more useful and as beautiful as you want to make it.

Well done on your first effort, trial and error and all that.

I really want to see the next one.

Thanks and good luck with the successor.

:beerchug:
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,666
McBride, BC
I see no pix at all.
The elbow most common is 55 degrees. Some PacNW carvers like 45 but I have never tried that.
The Holm Constant takes a position off the edge of the blade at 90 degrees, that's where your index finger needs to be
for all day working.
The Kestrel Constant makes the handle grip area just so the tips of your second and third fingers will just
touch the fat ball part of your thumb in a grip.

Hope for pix, I really want to see what you're doing.
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,211
364
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SE Wales
I've got the pics. of Forginhill's tool but not of yours...................I'd be interested in seeing this as I'm just ready to try an adze with a piece of seasoned crabapple.
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
27,896
2,946
62
~Hemel Hempstead~
Hmmm... don't know what's happened there as they were there originally and now gone for me as well. :dunno:

I'll try and sort it out in a little bit.

Edit... it appears to be a Photobucket problem as ALL my pics have disappeared from there and hence from the forum as well :confused:
 
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Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,211
364
73
SE Wales
Hmmm... don't know what's happened there as they were there originally and now gone for me as well. :dunno:

I'll try and sort it out in a little bit.

Edit... it appears to be a Photobucket problem as ALL my pics have disappeared from there and hence from the forum as well :confused:

Oh hell! That sounds a real pain.......I hope you resolve this without too much trouble.
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
27,896
2,946
62
~Hemel Hempstead~
Oh hell! That sounds a real pain.......I hope you resolve this without too much trouble.

Hopefully you can see the pics now.

Had to re-activate an old photobucket account and upload the pics on to there to sort it out for now whilst I establish why my pics aren't showing on PB with my main account :bluThinki.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
I see the pics.

I guess you need to adjust the angle so that the edge is hitting just right. This could be done by putting in a shallow wedge behind the blade. Remember that an adze is a shaving tool not a chopper; each blow should swing through taking off a chip. .
Robson has a formula for calculating the angle.

I'd be a bit more concerned about the curve in your handle. You'll have a hard job using your adze to 'plane' square surfaces if the handle isn't absolutely 'true' to the adze edge.
 
head angle also depends on handle length the ones i made for me where short handles and the cutting edge looks t o be a bit acute or would benefit from convexing the shoulder back to make it bite more Elbow adze dont havethe weight ot he strength to wack in and lever out big hunks so need a nice slicy edge to take out lots of small slithers Fast

have a load of the curved bowl heads i did a few years back some where

ATB

Duncan
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,211
364
73
SE Wales
Yep, got them now, thanks :)

I've mocked up a few of these in the past and I think that, for me, the answer will be to have one @ around 45* and one @ around 55* or so; I've got a bit of crabapple and a bit of hornbeam waiting on me to get blades to fit to them.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,666
McBride, BC
Excellent. I see all the pictures. Nicely done.

Appearances can be deceptive. The strike is set by how far in/out the blade edge is, relative to the bevel angle. The usual trick is to attach the blade with a couple of hose clamps. Turn the buckles under so they don't bash your work. Work for a day. Move the blade 3/8" first one way, then the other, work for a day each.

Only then do you cut the blade seat and dry-whip the blade in place.

Hand position: draw an imaginary line at 90* from the edge of the blade to intersect the handle. That's what's called the "Holm Constant." Named for a prominent PacNW native carver, he measured dozens of elbow adzes to learn 2 things: the most popular elbow angle is 55*. Some carvers liked 45*. The intercept of the line with the handle is the position of your index finger. Mark that somehow.

Obviously, you can choke up on the handle. However, if you have a day's carving to do, getting the striking balance correct takes a lot of the stress out of bashing away all day.

Handle size: I identify this as the "Kestrel Constant." Gregg & Charlie are the bladesmiths at Kestrel Tool. The handle needs to fit your hand. . . not too fat, not too skinny. Hold the handle in a fist-grip, palm up. The tips of your second and third fingers should just touch the fat ball part of your thumb. Then you can relax. A death-grip on a skinny handle will wear you down. For my hands, a blank of 7/8" x 7/8" is best to begin. I can make do with 1" x 1" but 3/4" square is too small.

Strike rate: A PacNW carver taught me this = listen to your heart. Strike at your heart rate. It does seem stupidly slow until you get used to it. Go any faster and you will wear yourself out before you get much done. As strange as it sounds, I had to print a card "Listen to your heart" as I would gradually speed up and get tired.

If the picture attaches OK, here are my Baby Sitka elbow adze (55*) and my D adze. I can shave maybe 1mm with the D adze and my striking accuracy is much better than with the elbow adze. The handle is 6/4 flat-sawn birch and the grip area has been cut down for my hands, as was done on the D-adze handle. The upper change from yellow whipping to black is the Holm Constant. The others tools are my design of "planer knives" for smoothing surfaces enough to lay out a drawing.
Those blades started life as Mora #188 Equus farrier's knives at 30*. I knocked off the handles, cut down the hooked tips and revised the bevels to 12*.

Kestrel20s_zpseb194d94.jpg
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,666
McBride, BC
A very good question which I can't answer. I got all hot to trot to make some 45* handles but got carried away with carving so that never got done.
Note that Mesquite has the bevel on the outside of the blade. All the PacNW tools have the bevel on the inside. That will make a comparison awkward at best.

My observation (55/45) is based on a comment that Bill Holm makes, somewhere in his book: Northwest Coast Indian Art, An Analysis Of Form.

There are two different striking motions. One is a swing downwards from your own elbow. The other is a dragging downward strike from your shoulder.
I can imagine the 45* would be better with the latter of the strikes. Particularly if you were to work the inside surface of a cedar log boat.

Besides simply wasting wood to rough out a carving, the adzes can be used to texture the surface of a carving, a rather pleasing finish.
I'm dreadful at it with an adze. Crooked knife: yes, adze: no. Both of mine have 25* bevels. The thinking is that there will be enough steel to support the edge
in service for carving. Of course, that's traditionally soft woods like western red cedar and yellow cedar. I tried using the adzes in a birch wood carving, much harder wood
and it didn't chip out well at all so went back to conventional gouged & mallet.

I think that I'm done exploring. I just pick them up and use them. One carver in Alaska is often quoted saying: " a PacNW adze is a bandsaw on a stick."
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
27,896
2,946
62
~Hemel Hempstead~
I was sent this description about the Holm's constant which indicates that the upper bevel is included in the calculation.

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Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,666
McBride, BC
Thanks. I'd forgotten about all that. There's bound to be all sorts of variation when apprentice carvers were expected to make all their own tools.
I'm guessing that in production (Gregg Blomberg = Kestrel Tool), the upper bevel has been replaced by curving the entire blade.
If I still own a copy of his adze booklet (Adzes and Ends,) I'd have trouble finding it! I really should be in the shop right now, using mine.
 

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