Civilisation

[Janne]

Is anybody watching the new BBC series? A kind of remake of the late 1960's series.

The episodes with Mary Beard are fantastic.
I have previously enjoyed Simon Schama a lot, but not this time.

I find Mary Beard fantastic, like in her previous tv programmes.

 

[Insel Affen]

Caught the Simon Schama one, but drifted off towards the end - a bit too much on Art (IMHO) but usually a good series. Mary Beard = Bogs of frogs!!!!! (=Brilliant).

 

[Janne]

I do find Schama overdoes it. Interprets everything in a quite extreme way.
Some of his talk and interpretation was faulty.
The picture where he saw a ' women hunched under a burden of firewood' . I saw a woman walking quite upright carrying the cut off willow twigs ( going to make maybe some containers or baskets?)

Or the tree where he saw the tree being Jesus on the Cross. I saw a landscape with a guy sitting beside a tree. The tree had an interesting bird box (?) high up on the trunk. A a few pictures later, I saw two pine trees. He did not see Jesus on the cross and Mary Magdalene there.....

I find many of these experts see and interpret too much in old paintings.

Not Mary B though. The Thinking Man's totty, she is...

And I love her favourite shoes!

 

[Klenchblaize]

Stunning but with a few exceptions, as per the start of Episode 1, it would be better described as a Snowflake-friendly take on Civilisation compared to Kenneth Clarke's oh so eloquent and ground-breaking programmes of the 60's.

And IMHO there is nothing at all wrong with one man's take on such an expansive subject. Something I consider infinitely preferable to a committee lead approach.

K

 

[Macaroon]

Civilisation? To paraphrase Ghandi, it'd be a great idea.............................

Doesn't seem to be much evidence of it on a global scale nowadays, or am I just a cynical old bugger? Now I come to think of it, though.............................

 

[Janne]

I see your point, Klench, but I find it somewhat ridiculous to read in as much as he did and does.
Most pictures (art) are just pictures. With a very few exceptions, artists did create likenesses of what they saw, and what the person paying for them wanted.
Not some embedded cryptic messages.

I find Schama puts too much in them.

I did not see a committee led approach to anything yet.

 

[santaman2000]

Civilization is over rated.

 

[Janne]

Civilization is over rated.

US was founded on that principle.
Yes?



(Cue titillating banjo music in the background.....)

 

[Janne]

In the previous episode, they showed a newly found seal, the one from the warrior's grave.
It depicted two warriors in combat, and another one on the ground. That must be one of the most beautiful objects I have seen in my 57 years..

 

[santaman2000]

US was founded on that principle.
Yes?



(Cue titillating banjo music in the background.....)

Founded by people escaping civilization.

 

[Janne]

Founded by people escaping civilization.

(thumbs up icon here)

Excellent, fun answer!

 

[oldtimer]

I see your point, Klench, but I find it somewhat ridiculous to read in as much as he did and does.
Most pictures (art) are just pictures. With a very few exceptions, artists did create likenesses of what they saw, and what the person paying for them wanted.
Not some embedded cryptic messages.

I find Schama puts too much in them.

I did not see a committee led approach to anything yet.

I couldn't agree less, but then I have a degree in Art History. I don't know much about teeth though.

 

[Janne]

Yes, but that is what I see and think as a total ignorant layman!

And the fun is to hear different peoples interpretations.

I perceive only what I see. I am a simple soul that enjoy the beauty of art.

Being educated in sciences, I can only take something for a fact if it can be scientifically proven.

In the case of art, I can think that maybe the artist writing and explaining the meaning of his art as proof.

Us interpreting (with our modern views etc) art several hundred years old seems difficult.

Medicine and its off shoot Dentistry are well set.

I think you know much more about Dentistry than you think!

 

[Paul_B]

The thing with art is the meaning in the piece. For example there's a period in art history when the number of characters in each painting had to be one of a few choices which related back to biblical stories. Say twelve disciples plus Jesus =13 characters in a scene of pagan water nymphs and satyrs. In other words meaning that applies back to the image. I can't give you examples because I'm science based but arts based so forgotten more than I can remember about art.

Artistic elements in cathedrals from medieval era also had huge significance which has been largely lost to our understanding. IIRC numerical significance.

Art has always had huge degree of meaning. I doubt even Schama can exaggerate a lot of the key pieces through history / pre-history. Personally I can't watch him though, but that's another matter related to how his voice alone grates and he's just annoying naturally.

 

[shaggystu]

I couldn't agree less, but then I have a degree in Art History. I don't know much about teeth though.

I don't have a degree in art history but I do know enough to know that I know nowhere near enough to disagree with an Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard educated art historian about art. If the man says the tree's Jesus on a cross, then the tree's Jesus on a cross, simple.

 

[Janne]

But what do you think about a slightly later painting, the one with the double tree / Jesus on cross and Mary Magdalene?

 

[shaggystu]

But what do you think about a slightly later painting, the one with the double tree / Jesus on cross and Mary Magdalene?

Exactly the same way; I know enough about art to know that I know nothing about art, whatever qualified opinion is presented to me I will accept as being correct.

 

[Janne]

Aha, you have not seen the programme ...........

 

[shaggystu]

Aha, you have not seen the programme ...........

I know, I wasn't commenting on the program.......

 

[Janne]

It is good, watch it!
Mary Beard at her best!