Can I get away with just using a Buffalo bag with a Pertex 5 outer, or do i need a bivi bag if i'm going to be sleeping under a basha?
Buffalo sleeping bags
- Thread starter ed dickson
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you should be ok mate, i do generaly take a bivi but i use it really to stop contact between me and the floor rather then to make me water proof.. if you set your tarp up right you should be ok!
You should be fine
I have slept in a bivi of natural materials in mine (In loght rain) and been fine!
I have slept in a bivi of natural materials in mine (In loght rain) and been fine!
My brother has had a Buffalo bag for over 10 years. The inner is just fibre
pile and the outer is pile/pertex.
The inner is therefore not windproof, nor waterproof and should never be
used alone.
The outer, being pile/pertex, is an excellent bivvy bag on its own. Only
if it is going to lash it down for a long while (few hours)does it wet out.
In all night drizzle, it has proved to be as watertight as anything, taking
into account condensation dampness which all bivvy bags suffer from.
Putting a Buffalo inner inside a separate pertex outer is the same thing
as just using a Buffalo outer. Putting an inner inside a Goretex bivvy bag
will make it waterproof but less breathable. The main reason for the
superior breathabilty of a Buffalo bag is that your mouth and nose are
still connected directly to the outside world via the narrow snorkel hood,
therefore your exhaled breath doesn't contribute to internal condensation.
Buffalo bags don't suffer from mud/dirt contamination like Goretex bags
and are thus much better suited to proper roughing it in the woods.
My brother used his in Alaska in the late 90's during several 6-month
long adventures and found it to be excellent and robust.
A double Buffalo bag is quite bulky and has a larger packed size than
say an Ajungilak plus Gorex bivvy bag. On the plus side, on a dry night,
your body heat will dry out a Buffalo bag and they are still really toasty even
when damp.
A Buffalo outer under a tarp would be perfect - no need for another bivvy bag
on top. Pile/pertex works best when you are on the move so you may find an
outer to be a bit cooler than a similar weight Agungilak for sleeping purposes.
pile and the outer is pile/pertex.
The inner is therefore not windproof, nor waterproof and should never be
used alone.
The outer, being pile/pertex, is an excellent bivvy bag on its own. Only
if it is going to lash it down for a long while (few hours)does it wet out.
In all night drizzle, it has proved to be as watertight as anything, taking
into account condensation dampness which all bivvy bags suffer from.
Putting a Buffalo inner inside a separate pertex outer is the same thing
as just using a Buffalo outer. Putting an inner inside a Goretex bivvy bag
will make it waterproof but less breathable. The main reason for the
superior breathabilty of a Buffalo bag is that your mouth and nose are
still connected directly to the outside world via the narrow snorkel hood,
therefore your exhaled breath doesn't contribute to internal condensation.
Buffalo bags don't suffer from mud/dirt contamination like Goretex bags
and are thus much better suited to proper roughing it in the woods.
My brother used his in Alaska in the late 90's during several 6-month
long adventures and found it to be excellent and robust.
A double Buffalo bag is quite bulky and has a larger packed size than
say an Ajungilak plus Gorex bivvy bag. On the plus side, on a dry night,
your body heat will dry out a Buffalo bag and they are still really toasty even
when damp.
A Buffalo outer under a tarp would be perfect - no need for another bivvy bag
on top. Pile/pertex works best when you are on the move so you may find an
outer to be a bit cooler than a similar weight Agungilak for sleeping purposes.
yep i can second all that as am a buffalo user myself
also have the sp6 shirt which works great with the bag in the cold
i also have thanked buffalo when soaked to the skin with no spare clothes
and had a toasty nights sleep and woke in the mornig dry
also dont worry about the bag there dear to buy but take a hell of a beating
had mine for ages and its still like new and its had one hell of a beating even been washed in
a river bed while on the move now how many bags can you do that with
also have the sp6 shirt which works great with the bag in the cold
i also have thanked buffalo when soaked to the skin with no spare clothes
and had a toasty nights sleep and woke in the mornig dry
also dont worry about the bag there dear to buy but take a hell of a beating
had mine for ages and its still like new and its had one hell of a beating even been washed in
a river bed while on the move now how many bags can you do that with
Like a lot of you, I've been using buffalo gear for years. I use buffalo 4 season outer on its own for three season stuff. I've used it soaked from canoeing and appart from a few uncomfortable minutes getting into a cold, wet sleeping bag, it performes admirably. One thing to say though, and this applies to all buffalo kit. If you think you're going to get wet, use the buffalo bag or top or salopettes next to your skin. If you wear a tee shirt in your bag, the bag will dry out but your wet tee shirt will leave you miserable. If I do feel cold in my buffalo bag, the only thing I would ever consider putting on is buffalo gear. the only downside to this is that you can go from too cold to too hot very quickly.
All buffalo gear comes highly recommended from me !
Enjoy,
Steve
All buffalo gear comes highly recommended from me !
Enjoy,
Steve
I have to throw a spanner in the works here . The pertex is only really shower proof , if left out for extended periods in the rain it will get water logged . So i would advise using a gore-tex bivvy bagg as well . They make light weight towels out of pertex , that should give you some idea of its ability to absorb water .
I liked my buffalo bag , but much prefer the nannock -10 .
Pumbaa
I liked my buffalo bag , but much prefer the nannock -10 .
Pumbaa
ed dickson said:
What is a buffalo bag? Checked on google and the only thing I came up with was parfleches.
Personally, I use a HB blanket in summer, a lightweight down bag, or a HB blanket with a down comforter sewn to it, in spring and fall, and a heavier down bag in winter. If I'm going to be out for a while in winter, or if it is very very cold, I have a minus 40 degree bag, that has some kind of man-made stuffing. It has to be cold, though. I can't sleep in this bag at minus 20 degrees F. It is just too hot.
PG
Here is their web site...
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/ssthumbs.htm
They are basically pile/pertex sleeping bags which can be used in
the open.
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/ssthumbs.htm
They are basically pile/pertex sleeping bags which can be used in
the open.
I would say that Puumba is wrong re. the weather proofing of
Buffalo pertex. Anyone with a lot of Buffalo clothing experience with vouch
for how well they perform, how quickly they dry and how toasty they are
even when practically soaked. Use a lightweight pertex towel (different
construction to Buffalo pertex) and you will see that although it absorbs
water, it spreads it around and it doesn't seep through to the other side
easily. Spreading the water around speeds evaporation which is why pertex
is used as quick drying towels and outer-shells!
Using a Gore-tex bivvy bag over a Buffalo bag is a waste of time, kind of
like pitching a tent over a bivvy bag.
Buffalo bags and clothing work superb when wet or dry. They easily
out-perform any other kind of sleeping bag (down or man-made) when
wet and damp.
Being naked inside Buffalo clothing and bags takes a bit of getting used
to as it goes against all the 'layering' principles.
Buffalo users expect to get wet and damp from time to time, but the great
thing is that as soon as the rain stops, your body heat dries it out in
double quick time. Also, Buffalo is very comfortable and still warm even
when it is wet and damp.
It's perhaps not for everyone, but I've always found those that don't like it
don't really like getting wet in the first place. It's impossible to spend time
outside inthe UK without getting wet.
Buffalo pertex. Anyone with a lot of Buffalo clothing experience with vouch
for how well they perform, how quickly they dry and how toasty they are
even when practically soaked. Use a lightweight pertex towel (different
construction to Buffalo pertex) and you will see that although it absorbs
water, it spreads it around and it doesn't seep through to the other side
easily. Spreading the water around speeds evaporation which is why pertex
is used as quick drying towels and outer-shells!
Using a Gore-tex bivvy bag over a Buffalo bag is a waste of time, kind of
like pitching a tent over a bivvy bag.
Buffalo bags and clothing work superb when wet or dry. They easily
out-perform any other kind of sleeping bag (down or man-made) when
wet and damp.
Being naked inside Buffalo clothing and bags takes a bit of getting used
to as it goes against all the 'layering' principles.
Buffalo users expect to get wet and damp from time to time, but the great
thing is that as soon as the rain stops, your body heat dries it out in
double quick time. Also, Buffalo is very comfortable and still warm even
when it is wet and damp.
It's perhaps not for everyone, but I've always found those that don't like it
don't really like getting wet in the first place. It's impossible to spend time
outside inthe UK without getting wet.
Lifthasir , you can say what you like , but the fact remains that a good downpour will leave you wet in a buffalo bag . I learnt the hard way by taking the manufacturer at their word . I have used the mountain shirts etc. and they were great put in anything more than a shower i wore a waterproof jacket over the top , so it wasnt until i slept out in my bag that i found out that you dont stay dry .
I would still advise the use of a bivvy bag as i think that is preferable to hyperthermia . At the end of the day its your choice , but i would rather err on the side of caution , and would not advise anyone to take a risk . My bag is one of the survival aids ones , so maybe the materials involved have advanced a bit . My opinion is based on the fact that this bag did allow me to get wet , and if it was not for the fact that i was out with some sensible mates , i would have ended up in quite a bad way with hyperthermia . It is only the "waterproof" capability of these bags that i dispute , other than that they are quite a good bag (if a tad bulky)
Pumbaa
I would still advise the use of a bivvy bag as i think that is preferable to hyperthermia . At the end of the day its your choice , but i would rather err on the side of caution , and would not advise anyone to take a risk . My bag is one of the survival aids ones , so maybe the materials involved have advanced a bit . My opinion is based on the fact that this bag did allow me to get wet , and if it was not for the fact that i was out with some sensible mates , i would have ended up in quite a bad way with hyperthermia . It is only the "waterproof" capability of these bags that i dispute , other than that they are quite a good bag (if a tad bulky)
Pumbaa
Pumbaa, you're missing the whole point of the Buffalo system.
The whole point is that you EXPECT to get wet. The system is
designed that way.
I've just been for a run. +2C with hard driving rain for 35 mins. The only
part of my Buff shirt that is wet is the cuffs, because I ran with them
open for ventilation. The rest of my shirt is covered in beaded water.
I am hot and the inside is damp with sweat. Does it feel cold - no. Is it
drying - yes. I can feel it drying which is why I wear it inside for 10-15mins
to warm down - is dries the shirt at the same time.
Being wet is not a bad thing in the outdoor world. Sheep get wet, cows get
wet, dogs get wet. The problem is how you deal with getting wet. The reason
why cotton is bad for a base layer is that it stays wet and keeps the skin
chilled. So long as your skin isn't chilled, you're OK.
When I started backpacking in the late 80's, I read an article in a mag
about Buffalo clothing. I guy called (I think) Hamish Hamilton did an
experiment in Scotland in mid winter. He dressed in Buffalo clothing and
paddled into a Loch and submerged himself up to his neck until he was nearly
frozen - about 10-15 mins. Then he walked out, put on his pack and started walking. Within 5 mins his clothing had stopped dripping and I think within
30mins he was bone dry.
I doubt you've actually worn Buffalo clothing in anger. Anyone was has will
understand the futility of wearing a waterproof jacket over a Buffalo shirt. You would either boil your blood or else generate so much condensation that your waterproof would become unbearable and sopping wet on the INSIDE!
As far as advanced materials are concerned, I believe the cutting edge fabric
these days is Merino. In other words, 100% pure natural wool!
It must be said that Buffalo clothing is intended for 'active' wearers. If all you
want to do is sit in a chair poking a fire, then you might get wet and cold.
The whole point is that you EXPECT to get wet. The system is
designed that way.
I've just been for a run. +2C with hard driving rain for 35 mins. The only
part of my Buff shirt that is wet is the cuffs, because I ran with them
open for ventilation. The rest of my shirt is covered in beaded water.
I am hot and the inside is damp with sweat. Does it feel cold - no. Is it
drying - yes. I can feel it drying which is why I wear it inside for 10-15mins
to warm down - is dries the shirt at the same time.
Being wet is not a bad thing in the outdoor world. Sheep get wet, cows get
wet, dogs get wet. The problem is how you deal with getting wet. The reason
why cotton is bad for a base layer is that it stays wet and keeps the skin
chilled. So long as your skin isn't chilled, you're OK.
When I started backpacking in the late 80's, I read an article in a mag
about Buffalo clothing. I guy called (I think) Hamish Hamilton did an
experiment in Scotland in mid winter. He dressed in Buffalo clothing and
paddled into a Loch and submerged himself up to his neck until he was nearly
frozen - about 10-15 mins. Then he walked out, put on his pack and started walking. Within 5 mins his clothing had stopped dripping and I think within
30mins he was bone dry.
I doubt you've actually worn Buffalo clothing in anger. Anyone was has will
understand the futility of wearing a waterproof jacket over a Buffalo shirt. You would either boil your blood or else generate so much condensation that your waterproof would become unbearable and sopping wet on the INSIDE!
As far as advanced materials are concerned, I believe the cutting edge fabric
these days is Merino. In other words, 100% pure natural wool!
It must be said that Buffalo clothing is intended for 'active' wearers. If all you
want to do is sit in a chair poking a fire, then you might get wet and cold.
The issue here is for a sleeping bag and whilst agreeing with yopur last post , it does highlight what i am saying . You would not normaly be very active in a sleeping bag ! I used mine (and my mountain shirt) whilst in the forces , so good kit made a big difference , But the inactivity whilst sleeping allows you to get quite cold if wet , hence my recomendation for a bivvy bag ! For the small increase in weight , its worth using . Not many people jog in a sleeping bag !!
And there is certainly not enough room to fit a partner in for some horizontal jogging in a buffalo bag
Pumbaa
And there is certainly not enough room to fit a partner in for some horizontal jogging in a buffalo bag
Pumbaa
Pertex is windproof, hence its use for 'windproof' smocks. Gortex is windproof but has little or no insulation properties. Adding a windproof shell to an insulated
bag which has a windproof shell is a bit pointless. I suspect it will create
more problems due to internal condensation.
As a previous member stated, the best way to use Buffalo is next to the skin.
A Buffalo outer used to be rated as a 2 season bag and with the inner, it
was rated as a 4 season bag. 4 season is pretty warm bag! My Anjungilak
is rated as a 3 season bag and it's been fine all the way down to -8 in the UK,
inside a tent - as cold as it gets in the UK.
Buffalo gear is warm, because it is windproof. I've found it much wamer
than any other single item of clothing. However, it's not for everyone. The
bags are incredibly warm, especially when the inner and outer are used
together - that's an awful lot of fleece wrapped around you in a windproof
shell!
According to Buffalo, the pertex they use is waterproof up to 1/2 inch of rain
per hour. And windproof to around 40mph.
I can only think that a bag can 'wet out' during a whole night out in the open
during the heaviest rainful of the year. Anyone not seeking a better place to kip
on such a night needs to think about what they are doing.
My only major criticisms of Buffalo are:
1. on very cold days, using the vents to regulate body heat exposes bits
of naked flesh to the bitter wind
2. it is very very warm clothing
Fortunately, I believe Buffalo do lighter weight clothing these days!
bag which has a windproof shell is a bit pointless. I suspect it will create
more problems due to internal condensation.
As a previous member stated, the best way to use Buffalo is next to the skin.
A Buffalo outer used to be rated as a 2 season bag and with the inner, it
was rated as a 4 season bag. 4 season is pretty warm bag! My Anjungilak
is rated as a 3 season bag and it's been fine all the way down to -8 in the UK,
inside a tent - as cold as it gets in the UK.
Buffalo gear is warm, because it is windproof. I've found it much wamer
than any other single item of clothing. However, it's not for everyone. The
bags are incredibly warm, especially when the inner and outer are used
together - that's an awful lot of fleece wrapped around you in a windproof
shell!
According to Buffalo, the pertex they use is waterproof up to 1/2 inch of rain
per hour. And windproof to around 40mph.
I can only think that a bag can 'wet out' during a whole night out in the open
during the heaviest rainful of the year. Anyone not seeking a better place to kip
on such a night needs to think about what they are doing.
My only major criticisms of Buffalo are:
1. on very cold days, using the vents to regulate body heat exposes bits
of naked flesh to the bitter wind
2. it is very very warm clothing
Fortunately, I believe Buffalo do lighter weight clothing these days!
Hello, wow, quite involed discussion going on here! I bought a Buffalo Special 6 top ages ago and have only used it a few times due to the intense heat I generate under it! That is fantastic and I'm very impressed with it, like I've said on another post, I always carry it in my bag even if i'm "doing layers" so that if I need to dry out my kit I can pop on my special 6 and stay toasty. Now my problem is my sleeping arrangements and u guys seem to be able to offer some advice? I own a Marmott hydrogen sleeping bag which says its good down to -1. Its a lovely 900 fil down back in sexy blck pertex, and has what i consider a hefty price tag. But it packs down to nothing and weighs f**k all. I sleep quite warm anyway & took it to Wales with me one very very early spring and slept by a wind swept lake. It was a little chilly but I was ok. (was in a tent) My question to u knowledgeable folks is what would u advise me to do if I wanted to go for a winter trip? (bivvi or tent). Would u consider me getting new bag? or buying a liner? (i do have small silk liner but not sure how effective it is in cold climes) Or would wearing my special 6 in my bag work? any insight would be very greatly appreciated!
Rain man said:
If your a warm sleeper, better to get another bag.
That way you always have it, and can be assured you wont be risking getting too cold, then if you do get a chill in the night put a hat on.
Silk liners are very good, cool in summer warm in autumn. Fleece are a little better for winter.
Saying all this, if you were a little cold in your tent, it might be a different story in a bivvy bag, as your insulation is closer. There is still quite a big space inside a tent to lose heat.
Buffalo do great sleeping bags, if a little pricey. Go with your instinct, its usually the best decision(when comfortable and warm)
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