Baby Muntjac in December?

[BorderReiver]

My young dog caught and killed a baby munty this morning.

I was not expecting there to be anything young about and didn't have a chance to call him off when he was hunting. He usually flushes rabbits and enjoys the chase but never catches them.

Is it normal for muntjac to have young this late in the Year?

 

[jungle_re]

They breed all year, very rare to see a doe that doesnt have a young un or is pregnant

 

[Andy2112]

Stupid question, but is it big enough to be eaten ?

 

[BorderReiver]

Stupid question, but is it big enough to be eaten ?

Good question.

If I had not been so cross with myself for letting the dog kill it I might have gralloched it and brought it home. A tasty snack for one.

Even though I used to hunt and kill my own meat, I still get upset when I see a baby creature die.

 

[Andy2112]

Good question.

If I had not been so cross with myself for letting the dog kill it I might have gralloched it and brought it home. A tasty snack for one.

Even though I used to hunt and kill my own meat, I still get upset when I see a baby creature die.

I know what you mean, a few years back a magpie was bothering some nesting blackbirds so i had to shoot it, still think about it now and it must be 17-18 years ago. Rats i have no remorse for though.

 

[Stew]

I think that's one of the reasons that they're such a pest as they breed all year.

 

[Barney]

I don't feel any guilt over killing magpies, to kill them was one of the reasons I bought a new gun after a couple of years without one. I had watched the magpies near me eat the goldfinch chicks in my garden twice a year for a couple of years. When i started to watch them closely their ingenuity amazed me, they hunted round the trees and knew every nest of the other birds they didn't eat the eggs though they just harangued the parents, when the magpies had hatched their chicks they went back round the nests stealing one chick from each nest every other day to feed their own chicks, "saving some for later if you like". That final year they killed three blackbird families depleted a thrush nest,a couple of dove nests and of course the Goldfinches from my garden. They would have loved to get into the tit box, they knew they were there but could not get in. Most of the birds double clutched and they were hammered again by the buggars.
IT made me so angry I bought the air rife i have now.

The last three year all songbirds have survived in my garden and locally funnily enough. The only guilt I have felt after shooting every Magpie that comes to the garden or vicinity is that one I shot on a neighbours roof and it fell into his gutter. A week or so later I could barely contain myself as he explained his gutters were blocked and a drip kept hitting the window.

A small price to pay for the return of my gardens birdlife.
Farmers have the right idea, both barrels through every magpie nest they see.

Sad to hear about the Muntjac eating it would have at least, in part, justified its sad demise.

 

[alpha_centaur]

Farmers have the right idea, both barrels through every magpie nest they see.

No.Everything has a right to exist. Yes, the magpie numbers need to be kept in check but not wholesale slaughter of a species.

Look what certain land owners did to the birds of prey in the UK because they were a "pest"

 

[Barney]

No.Everything has a right to exist. Yes, the magpie numbers need to be kept in check but not wholesale slaughter of a species.

Look what certain land owners did to the birds of prey in the UK because they were a "pest"

Certain Landowners tried to control the population of birds of prey for monetary reasons as they eat into the profit that could be generated from the raising of game birds. I advocate the control of magpies from a conservation viewpoint, they kill far to many of our songbirds. This same "conservation" viewpoint supports the grey squirel culling, I prefer reds. Signal crayfish eradication and Cormorant control around rivers and lakes.

I know what you are getting at regarding a species having the rights to exist but the songbird and finch population was so healthy because, to a certain extent, of the control previously provided by farmers. The population increase of magpies is because the legislation that used to allow free shooting of them is no longer in force.

Now there are strict controls on who can cull Magpies.

This link gives the Legal position.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/magpies/thelaw.asp

 

[Barney]

To Mr Borderreiver,

Please accept my apologies for this thread going off topic.

 

[alpha_centaur]

Certain Landowners tried to control the population of birds of prey for monetary reasons as they eat into the profit that could be generated from the raising of game birds.

I was more referring to the claim that I've heard on a few occasions of buzzards killing lambs. I would think that should a buzzard manage to kill a lamb the lamb is probably better off out its misery than dying shortly thereafter anyway.

My other point was I don't think that its acceptable to kill anything without good reason, I would never kill a grey squirrel because I prefer red ones, I would kill it because they are eradicating the red population and they taste d**n nice with a red wine sauce.

I'm assuming that that's what you meant though that you support the culling of magpies rather than the man made extinction of the species.

 

[Joonsy]

If my understanding is correct muntjac breed every 9 months not the more normal every 12 months like other deer, therefore young muntjac can be around at any time of year.

 

[robin wood]

My young dog caught and killed a baby munty this morning.

I was not expecting there to be anything young about and didn't have a chance to call him off when he was hunting. He usually flushes rabbits and enjoys the chase but never catches them.

Is it normal for muntjac to have young this late in the Year?

Yes, they came quite recently from a tropical climate without winter/spring cycle and have not yet adapted to breeding once a year. I think they breed about once every 7 months so can drop young any time.

 

[robin wood]

The population increase of magpies is because the legislation that used to allow free shooting of them is no longer in force.

Now there are strict controls on who can cull Magpies.

Has the legal position on corvid control changed recently? I remember farmers shooting rooks when I was a child and they still do and use Larsen traps today, never has been illegal on your own land.

The well documented increase in Magpie population from 1965-1990 is often blamed for songbird decline though there is no proven link. Cats take many more songbirds than magpies, woodpeckers are skilled nest thieves should we shoot them too? songbird food and nest sites have declined due to changing farming practices. The BTO are the scientific body looking at bird population here is some of their info on magpie.

http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2005/wcrmagpi.htm

Interestingly once the population leveled out in 1990 clutch size decreased from average 6 eggs to 4. This is exactly the sort of natural balance that most creatures well up the food chain exhibit. Foxes also adjust their breeding rates significantly depending on mortality. So what I am saying is that by going out and shooting a few you are not going to significantly alter the population, they will simply up their breeding and move back in from surrounding areas. It is rare that predation whether by natural predator or man is the limiting factor on a species population. The forestry commission have spent an awful lot of money experimenting with gray squirrel control, they have found that all trialed control methods had zero effect on population size 1 year later. They now target their control to create a dip in the population just at the time that they strip bark from trees but accept that population size is governed by other factors, particularly habitat, food supply etc.

Seems to me we simply don't like anything that is successful whether it be rats, magpies, gray squirrel or Canada goose. The same is the case in woodlands, we dislike sycamore so much simply because it is successful. It will reach a balance in our woodlands eventually, it is not invasive in Europe. I remember reading old forest management records from the 1930's on a property where I worked and they were cutting elms out because they thought they were invasive. Nature will have its way, magpies. rats and sycamore will reach their own balanced population and folk shooting or felling them will not alter their numbers. It may make you feel better, especially when you have been watching a songbird nest for a couple of weeks and then see it robbed. Nature can appear cruel, we lead very insulated lives..

 

[jungle_re]

the link was to the general licence which also covers pigeon. You can shoot them as an effective pest control measure. It is illegal to shoot pigeons for sport or for food, under the general licience you shoot them as pest control. All he usual legal jargon etc but thats the just of it.

 

[BorderReiver]

To Mr Borderreiver,

Please accept my apologies for this thread going off topic.

Snot a problem Barney.