alternative gps systems, how will they effect us

[hedgerowpete]

China's satellite navigation system has become operational, according to an official.

Beidou now offered location, timing and navigation data to China and surrounding areas announced the project's spokesman Ran Cheng.

China has been working on the system since 2000 to provide an alternative to the US government-run Global Positioning System (GPS).

Beijing plans to send a further six satellites into space by 2012 to extend the system to most parts of Asia, and then expand the network to a total of 35 satellites offering global coverage by 2020.


Mr Ran also noted that the system is compatible and interoperable with the world's other navigation systems.

Beyond GPS, Russia operates the Glonass network. It recently launched a series of satellites to cover gaps in its system and reported earlier this month that it once again covered 100% of the Earth's surface.

The EU is also developing its own system - Galileo. The first of its operational satellites entered orbit in October. The European Space Agency said the network should be completed in 2019.The European Union's Galileo system aims to offer a partial service within the next two years Alternative systems



Meanwhile, defence developer Lockheed Martin is working to upgrade the US's system to GPS III.

The US Air Force said the new system would have more power, making it harder for enemies to jam it, and allowing the signals to penetrate deeper into built up cities and dense foliage.

the above is from the bbc news, so we have no the yank system we all know about the european system, russian and chinese soon coming to use, does this mean that gps units are now going to come with a small flag printed on the back saying whos system we are plugged into.
I am not fussed about whos systems will be guiding whos nuclear war heads, but how will the choice of several systems effect me and my gps unit ( when i bother to turn it on!)

 

[Retired Member southey]

Probably in no way what do ever. The civilian use is just a byproduct, I doubt the signal used will make any difference to your unit,

 

[Mesquite]

As Southey said.

Thing to remember is your GPS will coninue to use the system it was programmed with.

 

[nigeltm]

Many newer or more expensive GPS units these day will pick up more than one nations' system. This improves the accuracy of the coordinates as it can compare the results 2 or more satellite systems and work out a mean coordinate. I've a couple of units on test in work which are accurate to 300mm using GPS and Glonass. Very expensive and too heavy for bushcraft/hiking use but a nice toy all the same

Japan also has a gps satellite which orbits directly over their country only. Used with the American GPS it gives them a system which cuts out signal shadow and works in the highrise built up area of the cities. It's only used in Japan as we can't see the satellite from here.

What I'm trying to say in my usually longwinded way is the Chinese system is interesting but not relevant unless your in the area covered by their satellites.

As far as the UK goes I wouldn't worry. The US is slowly replacing their GPS satellites which may mean you'll need a new unit in a few years time as they use new frequency bands. Even so, its not something is worry about just yet.

 

[EdS]

you can already buy systems that run GPS and Glonass -- especially marine ones. The 2 systems work in differen ways so can be used to back each other up.

 

[tiger stacker]

Map and Compass/sextant anyone, handhelds are only as good for the task you are doing. I was playing with a prismatic recently, skill fade plus relying on my silva meant I had to practice a bit. A few years back, RAF SAR picked up men in loch lomond after their boat overturned. The cellphone signal was used to home in on them. Being taught to use handhelds you trend to rely on them more than instinct.

 

[hedgerowpete]

by the sounds of it my gps unit is going to redundant in a year or so then is was one of the first sort of garmins avalible

i wouldn't mind but i rarely use the dam m thing, the only times i have ever used it is when i want to comfirm my position and once when the fog came down when i was mountainering

we used it to let the local mountain rescue lads know where we were just incase we had problems durring the night we had decided to spend rather than risk walking down,

the ebarressing part was after he was told the cords he then procced to tell us where one of the team of lads was, 130 metres away with the landy , i was so embaressed when we walked over to them, you could hear the laughing all the way in the fog. that cost me a large round of drinks

 

[Bowlander]

by the sounds of it my gps unit is going to redundant in a year or so then is was one of the first sort of garmins avalible

It won't effect your GPS, it just means newer units are more accurate. The 10 metre accuracy on the old Garmins/Magellans was fine for most users. The new Etrex series run on both GPS and GLONASS making them very accurate and reliable - not bad for £100, useful for relocating discrete points or working under tree cover.

 

[lannyman8]

i still dont have mapping for my etrex from 2007, i have only ever used it as a distance counter/guide, TBH its useless for me with just lat and long appart from the distance guide.....

intresting though to hear about whats coming to us...

 

[pastymuncher]

From what I've read on a boating forum the Chinese GPS system is probably not operational yet, just being announced for political reasons.

 

[hedgerowpete]

most of them are not fully operational , and we all know the chinese dont tell the truth when it comes to world powers and ebay suppliers, lol

but say five years from now there will be several systems to choose from, some hand held units might combine all signals some will just favour one or the other.
usa made units favouring americian sat nav and so on for the chinese, and considering that the chinese units out number every one else, does that mean that the chinese system is going to replace the yanks?

i see from the replies there are many people who use sat navs when out in the countryside, not intrested in car versions here, and as such prefere the newer more accurate versions compared to my older version which pinned your posision down to withing a field or two, lol

is the choice preffered the small watch style or still the hand held version or does everyone apart from me own a mobile phone thingy that does it for them as a combined unit

 

[Bowlander]

is the choice preffered the small watch style or still the hand held version or does everyone apart from me own a mobile phone thingy that does it for them as a combined unit

I prefer handheld, the units need a clear view of the sky so you'd have to have your sleeve rolled up a bit at all times to keep a good fix. Far better to have a handheld clipped to your rucksack strap.



I've been really impressed by the accuracy of the Etrex 20. Sub 5m at all times on moorland. Its the first consumer unit to have GLONASS and GPS.

 

[pastymuncher]

most of them are not fully operational , and we all know the chinese dont tell the truth when it comes to world powers and ebay suppliers, lol

I didn't mean fully operational, according to those who seem to know the system is not at all operational.
quote shamelessly ripped from the boating forum

quote frank reed,space.com top commentator

Beidou is in test mode. It is not "operational" except to the extent that an official press release declares it so. You cannot today go to a store (in China or anywhere else) and purchase a Beidou receiver. Unfortunately, there is a clear trend here on space.com: any press release out of China is simply regurgitated. This is not journalism.

Richard Langley, one of the world's leading experts on systems, wrote an interesting article today for "GPS World" describing the Chinese press conference and noting the shocking lack of information presented there. Regarding the official documentation released to the industry by the Chinese, he notes, "There is no discussion whatsoever of the details of the navigation message or associated algorithms." Without this MOST BASIC information, any claims that the Beidou system is operational are wild exaggeration or fraud. Very likely a Chinese government mandate required this announcement, true or false, before the end of this month."

I do agree though, it wont be long, but the thing that concerns me is the reasoning behind all these new networks, they're not being put up there so we can go wandering around the woods. How long before car tracking and pay per mile charges, which was one of the reasons being put forward for the Galileo system being put in place.

 

[Andy BB]

That's a lot of fonts

 

[armie]

Japan also has a gps satellite which orbits directly over their country only.

Could you tell which satellite that is? (I'm curious how they manage to make it orbit directly over their country only; Japan isn't on the Equator.)

 

[Retired Member southey]

I think you may be getting geosynchronous and geostationary mixed up,

 

[Retired Member southey]

The Australasia RPS system info from the world of WIIIIIIIIIKIIIIIIIII!

 

[armie]

Ooh, thanks for that link.
Yes, I had them mixed up.