A car for winter driving?

[Paul_B]

After realising our nice car was a real dud in winter driving conditions and after a bit of a hairy drive over the spine of England I'm curious about what makes a good car for winter?

I used to have a diesel Astra estate, only 1.7 litre TDi engine but it was amazing over snow and compacted snow. That's without winter tyres. My current car is useless.

So what's a good family car for winter conditions? Good all year round too with load capabilities for active families?

BTW we're looking at winter tyres too, any good places to get them? I know any car with winter tyres will be better than normal tyres but will winter tyres be enough for a car that's slippery as a wet fish even on slush? I really don't trust the car in conditions like today.

If you've got any ideas for around £5000 secondhand too if he very interested.

The other part of my question is what makes a car good or bad in winter? Assuming we had equivalent mid range tyres on my old Astra and our newer move, then what's making the newer car worse? Is it the traction control and electronic stability system? Is it the wider tyres?

 

[Dogoak]

Winter tyres can make a huge difference, rubber compounds, temperatures, etc; We probably have some of the highest amounts of snow fall and there's plenty of folks that have 2wd cars, most have a set of winter tyres on wheels that they swap over November/December time, and life carries on as normal in bad weather.

My other half needed a car with similar criteria to you Paul, after a brief flirtation with a Nissan Xtrail, it was good but developed a few issues, we got her a used Subaru Forester, non turbo. Permanent AWD and also has a low box,it's been brilliant, 2 years, not a single issue. We know a few folks that have them and no one has ever said a bad word against them. 2.0l petrol and with a light right foot I reckon I can get 35-38mpg.

How you drive in winter conditions is a big help, larger stopping distance allowed for, controlled steering input, always get in the highest gear possible as soon as possible and don't worry about what the mad ones are up to!

Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive!

 

[Insel Affen]

Winter tyres can make a huge difference, rubber compounds, temperatures, etc; We probably have some of the highest amounts of snow fall and there's plenty of folks that have 2wd cars, most have a set of winter tyres on wheels that they swap over November/December time, and life carries on as normal in bad weather.

My other half needed a car with similar criteria to you Paul, after a brief flirtation with a Nissan Xtrail, it was good but developed a few issues, we got her a used Subaru Forester, non turbo. Permanent AWD and also has a low box,it's been brilliant, 2 years, not a single issue. We know a few folks that have them and no one has ever said a bad word against them. 2.0l petrol and with a light right foot I reckon I can get 35-38mpg.

How you drive in winter conditions is a big help, larger stopping distance allowed for, controlled steering input, always get in the highest gear possible as soon as possible and don't worry about what the mad ones are up to!

Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive!

Agree with everything above, Winter tyres are the dogs danglies! A friend of mine also swears by the Foresters too. We have a 4x4 AWD (F-Pace) but have only summer tyres on it at the moment, the main roads round York are pretty clear, but might have to buy a set for next year. It's not just about the grip, but also the compound, however nothing will stop you on pure ice.

We have winter tyres on my wife's Corsa (from when we lived in Germany) and they have been a massive bonus on the back roads round here, we have also had winter tyres on our Outlander and until you have driven with them, you will wonder why you've not done it before! The Germans usually use them from O to O (October to Oester (Easter)) which makes it easy to remember and change them.

 

[Janne]

what was wrong with your car?

Winter tyres are a must. 4 wheel drive is better than two wheel drive.

You can drive in snow and ice on summer tyres, but need to take it super easy. Gentle on the gas pedal.

I personally prefer a rear wheel drive car, because if you lose traction by spinning on the rear wheels, you still can steer. Start spinning the front wheels - no steering left.
Also if you get stuck, rear wheel cars are easier to get out.

I do not think any cars today are bad in snow.
Where I am from, Scandinavia, we have far more snow than in UK, and drive exactly the same cars people do in UK.

If you can, do a course in winter driving, I am sure you can do that in UK.
It is obligatory for our driving licenses in Scandinavia and Finland.

 

[Duggie Bravo]

There is a really good video on YouTube that shows them driving Ford Kuga up an indoor ski slope.
Shows 2WD, 4WD and also summer and winter tyres., the winner was 4WD and winter, but 2WD winter beat 4WD summer.
I had, for a short while, a VW Tiguan with Summer tyres and I was not confident with it in the winter, let alone snow.
My current Ssangyong Korando, performed really well last week. On original tyres and I used Difflock, just because I could when I had to do a hill start on snow/ice.
Everyday life wise the boot is a little small for a family weekend away, but I can get two kayaks and a bike on the roof and the paddles will fit inside.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[santaman2000]

I've done winter driving (snow and ice conditions) before, and still do occasionally (although not nearly so much now that I live here) In my experience:
-4wd is better than 2wd
-Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive (but most front wheel drive cars are too small for general family use)
-I love pick-ups BUT their combination of rear wheel drive and very light rear ends (unless laden with cargo) aren't conducive to good handling in slippery conditions.
-The right tires (or tire chains) helps more than most people imagine
-Lots of practice in whatever vehicle or tire configuration cures lots of problems (I suspect the fact that your new car is indeed a "new" car might be contributing to your problem (you simply aren't used to it like you were to your previous car)

 

[Macaroon]

As already stated above, Subaru make great cars for winter driving in the UK; not only the Forester but Legacy estate and Outback are very capable motors. Huge capacity, all wheel drive and flat four or six boxer engines slung very low in the car makes them very well balanced and steady.

Winter driving in this country needs as high a gear as possible as quickly as possible, low revs and low speed, leave the go and stop pedals alone and steer the vehicle lightly at a safe speed, nice and smooth. My problems always seem to come from other vehicles stopped in front of me, blocking the road and with drivers who can't do much to remedy the situation as they're dressed as they would be indoors, and without the few neccessaries stowed in the boot...........Wellies or the like, a snow shovel etc.

 

[baggins]

As above really. Its all about your tyres. i've driven all sorts in heavy snow and rarely had problems with grip. Had a golf with studded winter tyres in northern Norway a couple of years ago and i couldn't even do a j turn in the car park (yes i was playing, lol).
To be fair, if the snow you had this weekend was anything like we had here, very wet, slushy snow, i was sliding in my d-max, with AT tyres and four wheel drive engaged. Then it all comes down to driving style; high gears, light and early braking and trying to avoid people with a letterbox of cleared snow on the windscreen (don't get me started).

 

[tracker1972]

Don't disagree with any of the above, just can't really afford any of it either. However this winter, for the first time saw someone use those snow socks to move a van that had been stuck for a good 10 minutes of what I would consider sensible attempts at moving. He clearly remembered he had them a bit late, put them on and merrily (gently) drove straight up the hill he had been struggling with! No good as a full time fix, but has anyone used them as an emergency measure? (May not have been this version, but something similar).
http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Broch]

I agree with Janne about the steering on rear wheel drive cars but front wheel drive keeps traction for longer mainly because the wheels have the engine sitting above them I presume. As a kid I would go out whenever there was snow and find somewhere to 'play' - we had big wide roads and plenty of room. It was always in a front wheel drive car - Mini, Riley Kestrel, Austin 1300 etc. great fun!!! - but also very valuable learning and experience.

You're not going to beat four-wheel drive with winter or AT tyres on and there are a lot of modern cars made with an AWD option and some sensibly priced full 4x4 vehicles as well. I used to give off-road and winter driving tuition using the customers cars and there wasn't a bad 4x4 within its on/off road and budget compromises. But, and has already been said, any car fitted with the correct tyres will be a vast improvement.

 

[johnnytheboy]

Wide low profile tyres are rubbish in winter, they seems to be the trend on newer cars. Not only are the rubbish for traction but also the wheels can sustain damage from pot holes etc, in winter.

The thing is though it’s very seldom that there is the real need for a car that performs fantastic in snow condition, the only option is a 4x4 but what you’ll sacrifice in fuel consumption the rest of the year it’s not worth it in my opinion unless you can afford to have a second car hanging about.

In 2010 I rushed out and bought winter tyres for the vehicles I look after, the advice I’d give you is not only to have tyres but to have wheels, it will really speed up the process and preserve the tyres longer. However it’s a pain in the nuts changing them over. One thing is though they are really good in snow, the hidden benefit is they are superb in the cold and wet, not just ice and snow, they really do improve braking efficiency and traction when cornering etc. Another benefit is your tyres don’t wear as much, you would be surprised how summer tyres wear when your wheels spinning in ice. Conversely though if you don’t take your winter tyres off early spring and leave them on when temperatures are typically over 10oC then winter tyres wear really quickly, so its a balancing act.

This year given the fact the novelty has worn off changing wheels over, storing wheels, check wheel bolt torques, tripping over winter tyres all summer etc etc I decided to put All-seasons on the van my wife drives, I have to say so far it’s worked out really well. These tyres are suitable to use year round, they may give overall reduced mpg over the years but the hassle it’s saved me with the above palaver seems to be well worth it. The van is a Vito 119 sport which is rear wheel drive, it’s basically a mobile toy shop with bikes and prams in the back and has no weight over the rear driven axle. I was really worried about this as it’s the first rear wheel drive car she has had, it has fairly wide profile alloys. I am pretty impressed with these tyres as she has been up and down the Cairngorms all winter and not had any problems. We have a really steep hill next to us nd she has been up and down that no problem as well. I have to say that it’s likely this is my preferred option and I’m going to swap the rest of the vehicles over to all seasons when the tyres need replacing.

If I was to recommend you a family vehicle that’s good for active family’s it would have to be a caddy maxi or if budget allows transporter, yes both are vans but the options for them are amazing, as a day van you can chuck all your kit in the back and have bags of room. You can do a light camper conversion really cheaply on these vans and have somewhere to make a cuppa and be dry as a day van or even with a tailgate awning somewhere to sleep if a quick overnighted is decided on. The residual value on vans seems to be less as well, you will find a really nice one for £5k that a florist or someone non industrial has had. As always with volkswagen they standardise parts across all their models cars and vans so parts are readily available, every garage in the country works on VWs so everyone knows how to fix them. These vans aren’t so big they are a problem to park in town either so it’s a win win.

 

[jmagee]

Winter tyres are good but like Johnnytheboy says you get tired of storing them and swapping.

I've just sold the car I had winters for and not replaced them. I'm the recent snow yes I'd have liked them but not worth it for what we get.

I was tempted by all weather tyres but can only see Michelin cross climate readily available and they're expensive. Think I'll invest in snow socks or similar instead.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[Faz]

I bought a 2004 Audi allroad estate from the auction for £1500 all in. Drove it for 18 months without issue and sold it to a cattle farmer in North Wales for the same price I bought it for. Quattro and Suspension that lifted over 4 settings. Vag 2.5tdi. The whole thing was a tank and I regretted selling it. Half leather, sat nav etc....
If you can find one that’s been looked after then it will serve you well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Paul_B]

It's not a new car, we've had it for 3 plus years, but we want a new (secondhand) car or van soon. This car is a seat Altea xl. Great space in it by euro standards (possibly still a compact in USA though), front wheel drive.

The issue is it's useless on anything from slush to compacted snow. A few years ago I had a scary slide back down a bit of a slope on compacted snow. There was a bit of a drop off on the side of the road that was actually slightly lower too. I managed to slide until I got grip and could back up safely. This was about a year into our ownership and we were well used to it by then.

The thing is we had an Astra estate 1.7TDi. One winter we came off the hills with clear roads but an hour in the pub (honest just an hour) there was about 3" on the road or more. We had to dig our car out then drive on compacted snow. An hour and half tops drive home took well over 3 hours. Mostly because we were stuck behind ppl in difficulty.

Anyway we drove up and over some steep hills too. The car slid around on quite a good few times but it felt very predictable. We drove past abandoned 4x4s. We're taking range rovers, discoveries, land cruisers, etc. Seriously I didn't understand those cars being abandoned. We're talking pointing at an angle into the side of the road, in our way at times.

I was so proud of my little estate and not least my driving. I discovered I had a good feel for my car and was a decent driver on snow. I got more scared driving down the m6 on the flat through the blizzard later on than over the steep snowy hills.

You see It's the feel of the car, predictability of the car and trust in the car that I'm missing. Perhaps I'll never get that feeling like my old Astra. Winter tyres will certainly help but I suspect with this car the feeling will mean the tyres don't completely work.

So what front wheel drive family car would be a good option. Funny there's less estates around these days. I much prefer estates than modern SUVs based on normal hatchbacks. Looking at Ford you get fiestas = bmax IIRC, focus = ecosport or cmax, mondeo = kuga or smax I believe. Whatever the case you don't get an estate version of say Ford focus but you get the suv version. Prefer the estate though.

 

[santaman2000]

I looked up the Altea (I've never seen one up close) It certainly looks a good size for a family car. I think it would be classified as "mid-sized" car here (if a compact, it would be on the bigger end of compacts) It also looks to be what we'd call a "crossover" vehicle (a cross between an SUV and a van) It's a shame it doesn't handle as you'd like. I completely agree you need confidence in your vehicle. Good luck finding one that will do; and please let us know how it works out.

 

[Paul_B]

It's the xl version, 29cm longer. It's based on an extended seat Leon just like the vw golf plus. However the floor plan is shared with the golf plus along with a few other shared parts but the engine is the same 2 litre diesel as either the sharan or touran, can't remember which.

The engine is a good one and in another car would have the power / torque to pull a reasonable caravan (if that's your thing) but the weight of the car is too low and you need a lightweight caravan if you need 4 berths.

I'd call it an mpv personally (multi person vehicle). Not really suv territory, no 4 wheel drive option and it's not actually elevated.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very good car for our needs. Features like internal height (can load boot up higher before the windows). Rear seats can be moved forwards and backwards with 40:60 split, each split moves separately. It makes it user friendly IMHO.

It's just that slippery surfaces aren't good for it. Or for me when going over such surfaces. I've driven it owned old mini, old fiesta, Ford escort and Astra before. All good in winter but not the seat. I really can't work out why?

 

[Nice65]

I've been driving a 3dr Toyota RAV4 for on Grabber AT2 tyres for years. I've put 50,000 miles on the tyres and apart from being aware of them in wet conditions, never had any problem. Maybe look at the 5dr petrol, £5000 should find you something decent.

I've used the Grabbers in snow and to drag a trailer across soft ground on many occasions. Today I left Charlton Forest via a tarmac road only to find the last person out had locked the gates trapping me in. I managed to get out by "bypassing" a gate, not something I could have done in a car without decent tyres and AWD.

For ice, 4 wheel drive isn't going to make any difference at all, chains or tyre studs are the only thing that'll help. If not getting an AWD, go front wheel drive and get a couple of spare wheel fitted with winters to store in the garage, it's better to be dragged along by the tyres than pushed.

Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, all are reliable and efficient. Subaru can be expensive on parts when they occasionally need them.

 

[Janne]

it is the technique not which axle, front or rear, is powered.

The reason so many cars are front wheel drive is a much cheaper and easier manufacture.

Remember, when a car increases speed, the front rises and the rear squats, as the weight vector is moved to the back. More pressure on rear tyres, less pressure on the front tyres.

 

[Robson Valley]

I live in snowy winters in the mountains at 53N, most of your don't. I have driven in this stuff, from powder to slush for 50+ years.
Real snow tires(snowflake symbol) are the LAW here.

Go to the wreckers and buy a set of balanced second-hand rims.
Buy a set of serious winter tires.

They have cold weather traction like you do not comprehend in the rubber compound.
Ours have crushed walnut shell in them for traction control.

2WDR or 4WDR is Not the issue. It's grip and control, braking.
You owe it to your family and friends to get your act together and get serious about winter.

Me? I could have done one more winter on my snowflakes. They just didn't have the "bite".
So I dropped $1,200.00 on a new set. That's life in the snowlane.

 

[Paul_B]

One day a year in driving in bad conditions that would benefit from winter tyres. I really should cancel activities and such days. Would be much easier.

Thing about tyres is completely right but for such rare times it's harder to justify. As I said earlier my old Astra would not have had me concerned about the weekend drive. No winter tyres on that ever but I've driven on actual snow up and down reasonably steep hills.

If you know the lake district in England, the road from Windermere to Kendal is a series of steep up and down hills. Add in the road north of Ambleside. It simply handled them. Yet my seat can't handle the flat or undulating, good roads when it hits very wet slush. You know, the slush that's road coloured and more water than snow. It felt close to a slide.

Personally I believe cars can be good and can be bad on snow or bad driving conditions. I really don't know how it can tell before buying one. No car reviewer tells you anything about winter driving in the cars afterall.