1000s of tons of dead fish being dumped

[Shewie]

Have you heard this news today regarding so many perfectly healthy fish being dumped back into the North Sea dead ??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7102241.stm

Not sure what the solution is but something needs to be done sooner rather than later, absolutely scandalous :tapedshut


Rich

 

[BushTucker]

Thats awfull, i thought quotas where meant to stop all this waste.....

 

[hedgepig]

Thats awfull, i thought quotas where meant to stop all this waste.....

Clearly they don't, which is why the proposal to increase the quota won't fix the problem!

 

[TallMikeM]

quotas just limit what fishermen land, not what they catch. This has been going on for years. P'raps we need to bring in more sustainable ways of fishing, i.e line catching and not trawling.

 

[fred gordon]

I'm afraid this isn't really news as it's been going on for years. Europe really needs to be taken to task on this on as they are so smug about their conservation record when it comes to fish stocks.

 

[sharp88]

Trawling really is a disgusting fishing method. All the beautiful fish wasted. Im glad I don't eat supermarket fish much.

 

[demographic]

I heard that perhaps a better way to replenish fish stocks would be to have no fishing zones in the north sea, that way the fish get a chance to build up.
The more the fish stocks need help the bigger areas the no go zones.

Trawlers that fish in the no fishing zones lose their licence, maybe even have a couple of big submarines hooning about at maximum beanage to stop em dropping their nets

 

[bushtank]

Have you heard this news today regarding so many perfectly healthy fish being dumped back into the North Sea dead ??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7102241.stm

Not sure what the solution is but something needs to be done sooner rather than later, absolutely scandalous :tapedshut


Rich

Absolutly shocking and as fred said it has been going on for a while now

 

[sharp88]

It really should be banned. Besides line and hook fishing is so much good fun off the marina. If you'v got a boat its even better...you catch fish like every 10 mins on a boat in the sea down here.

 

[Shewie]

The new quotas have been agreed by the EC after a 20 hour meeting yesterday ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7151243.stm


Rich

 

[robin wood]

There is a very simple answer to this instead of limiting the amount you catch..or land simple limit the size and capacity of the boats. I mean get rid of all those horrible factory ships and bring back small boats. Nothing wrong with trawlers its just huge trawlers. Lots of little boats like there used o be in Whitby and every other fishing port around our coast which did not decimate fish stocks for many generations. If you can only get XX tons on your boat it wouldn't be worth the Spanish coming to the Irish Sea to fish or the British going to Iceland. Lots of small boats means more employment...and more meaningful employment...a small dedicated skilled team on a boat doing everything together rather than a gang of unskilled lowly paid eastern Europeans minding big machines.

And where do the profits end up? small town based trawler profits go into local economy huge factory ship profits go into huge investors huge bank account.

It probably means more expensive fish but I would happily pay.

And whilst we are on the subject who buys supermarket salmon? why catch 5kg good edible fish like sardines and mackerel, grind them up and feed them to a carnivore in a cage to get 1kg of pasty flabby salmon and pollute a Scottish lock in the process. If we are going to farm fish why not herbivores like carp?

Oh and now I am in full rant lets sort the CAP problem with the same system, we shall limit farm size and supermarket size instead of subsidising. Simply ban holdings above a certain size, different acreage's for upland and lowland farms, different again for dairy and we'll let proper mixed farms be a little bigger as that is how farming should be done the waste product of each part being the raw material for another rather than a pollutant for the taxpayer to sort out.

Bernard Mathew's turkey for Christmas anyone? Pah!

There that feels better I'll get my coat......

 

[redneck]

a lot of fish are now line caught rather than net/trawled and that's the way it should be, trawlers and their ilk are rapers of the seas, they will destroy all in their path with no thought for fish stocks or the future, all trawling in the North sea should be banned and line caught practises made the norm.

 

[TallMikeM]

Oh and now I am in full rant lets sort the CAP problem with the same system, we shall limit farm size and supermarket size instead of subsidising. Simply ban holdings above a certain size, different acreage's for upland and lowland farms, different again for dairy and we'll let proper mixed farms be a little bigger as that is how farming should be done the waste product of each part being the raw material for another rather than a pollutant for the taxpayer to sort out.

Bernard Mathew's turkey for Christmas anyone? Pah!

There that feels better I'll get my coat......

nice idea (specially as it would mean me amd mrs m could afford to buy a little place with a few acres ) but it'll never happen. The size of farms have been growing for well over 200 yrs now, it's a fundemantal tenant of free market economics when applied to agriculture.

I believe the french have/had a system whereby the state regulates the maximum size of farms (tho I suspect Sarkozy will do someting about that, if he's a true free marketeer) which was brought in after the revolution to break up the estates of the aristocracy so that they could be given to the peasants (it was also one of the reasons why inheritance tax was brought in in this country, so that tennant farmers could buy the land they had previously rented).
Anyway, I digress, a variation on the French system could work here (tho I'm doubtful) but the way agriculture is being run, as a business enterprise, dictates that size (and the attendant economies of scale size brings) is all important.
We also only need to look at soviet russia or mugabes zimbabwe to see what happens when the state intervenes in agriculture...

 

[robin wood]

We also only need to look at soviet russia or mugabes zimbabwe to see what happens when the state intervenes in agriculture...

Sorry are you saying we are not intervening at the moment? Do you know what proportion of the EEC budget goes to subsidise "free market" agriculture?

 

[TallMikeM]

where did I say that?

 

[robin wood]

sorry I thought that was the implication of the Zimbabwe quote as compared to "free market economics when applied to agriculture"

 

[TallMikeM]

I wasn't implying anything. I mentioned one country where the state intervenes in the size of farms (or at least did). What little I do know of farming folk is that they are totally against the state telling them how they should run their farms.
I also mentioned a couple of examples of where state intervention has been disastrous (whihc is not to say that all state intervention is disastrous). However, seeing as you mentioned EU farming subsidies, if we did get rid of them (as evil as they are) then the natural consequence would be for farms to get bigger and not smaller (as you called for). That is the nature of the current brand of free market economics that currently has us enslaved.

 

[robin wood]

Mike you are right stopping subsidy overnight is not the answer. I am not standing for prime minister just having a tongue in cheek rant. I believe strongly in the theories outlined by Schumacker in "small is beautiful, economics as if people mattered" All I am saying is I would rather live in a country with smaller fishing boats and smaller farms. I would like to see those fishermen and farmers still earn a decent wage from their "less efficient" practices and am happy to pay for it.

 

[TallMikeM]

I've also read small is beautiful and would also like to see a world like he (and John Seymour) enviages. However, it was written before the advent of free market economics (thatcherism, reaganomics etc) and in the original Schummacker provides no answer to prevent rampant exploitation from rampant free marketeers (it'd be interesting to read small is still beautiful and see if it's covered in there).
For good or for bad, we live in a global economy, and any changes that happen have to encompass the whole planet. Can't see China, America etc embracing small is beautiful any time soon...

 

[nicodiemus]

I grew up fly fishing and spinning with my dad, so he's always had nothing positive to say about trawling. Thus, i have to say i am biased in this discussion.

Down with trawlers!