Yobbos spoil things again

[ol smokey]

In today's "Herald" (Glasgow) There is an article about the closing of wild camping within
the Lomond and Trossachs national Park because of litter and abandonned Tents and
Drunken loutish behaviour, this will override the recent Right to Roam legislation through
local byelaws. At the moment it will cover three trouble spots Rowerdenon, Luss and Sallochy onthe shores of Loch Lomond but consideration is being given to include Loch Vennacher and Loch Luibnaig near Callander. Is this the thin end of the wedge ? and where will it end.? It is mentioned about 90 yobs turning up and drinking themselves stupid over weekends .There are already
Common Laws which state that when groups of twelve or more gather together and behave loutishly they can be "Done" for mobbing and Rioting. Why not "Doo Them"
under existing law, and let those who behave responsibly Camp Wild RESPONSIBLY

Why is it nearly always the case that those who act responsibly always suffer because of the Neds that just do their own thing and do not care about anyone else?

 

[Bushcraftsman]

This is ridiculous, I completely agree with you here, I was camping in some woodland once, suddenly, footstep in the middle of the night! obviously I'm terrified because who expects that! Anyway it was the police, they had come because someone had complained and said that they seen a couple of "youths" walking up towards the woods....they immediately assume because I am a teenager I MUST be causing trouble and getting wasted. I argued my innocence for atleast 20 minutes with these two police officers after which they had accepted I was doing no wrong and left after telling me to keep my fire under control.

It's these yobbos that give us all a bad name.

Sorry, rant over

 

[locum76]

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2528222.0.Camping_to_be_banned_at_Loch_Lomond.php

Here is a link to the article.

Notably there is no mention of hoodies, yobbos or anything like that. There is a mention from the NPA saying that lack of innovation and investment is largely to blame for the problems on the east shore of Loch Lomond. If you open up an area of extreme natural beauty to the public, and that area is next to a major conurbation, of course there will be problems if the infrastructure can't support the high number of visitors.

There is discussion of possible solutions such as clusters of informal camp sites in these 'hot spots' which can be policed and maintained.

It seems to me that this legislation will not go very far as it is based on local by laws and most people won't travel very far to go camping. Folks from Glasgow and Stirling will still be able to use the proposed informal sites.

I reckon there will still be lots of space in Knoydart, Assynt, the Cairngorms, Sutherland, Wester Ross and the Islands just as there is now for us 'bushcraft' types.

I don't have a problem with the alcohol thing, at the couple of meets I've been to I would say at least half of the folk have been 'a bit tipsy'. Its a fact that Scotland is a nation of big drinkers, we just have to live with it.

It would be nice if folks learned to tidy up after themselves but I think even if all of the people visiting Luss or Salochy Bay were tea total, god fearing, serial tidiers up there would still be problems associated with the huge footfall on the area.

Regards

Rob

 

[locum76]

This is ridiculous, I completely agree with you here, I was camping in some woodland once, suddenly, footstep in the middle of the night! obviously I'm terrified because who expects that! Anyway it was the police, they had come because someone had complained and said that they seen a couple of "youths" walking up towards the woods....they immediately assume because I am a teenager I MUST be causing trouble and getting wasted. I argued my innocence for atleast 20 minutes with these two police officers after which they had accepted I was doing no wrong and left after telling me to keep my fire under control.

It's these yobbos that give us all a bad name.

Sorry, rant over

I think your story says more about the small minded A***h**** who called the police than it does about anything else.

 

[Grooveski]

I spent all three weekends of the Glasgow fair up the lochside and launched from Sallochy Bay on the last one.
There were folk camping in the parking spaces which I thought a bit odd, fires everywhere(a good seven or eight on the go when I was taking out) and a group of nutters lobbing assorted do-das around the busy beach.

Frisbees I can handle and water rockets don't have much weight in them on their way back down but boomerangs? The procedure seemed to be chuck it, wait a second or two then yell "heids!" as it veered towards the folk who were sitting trying to relax.
I've got boomerang(somewhere - down in cumbria I guess, haven't seen it for a while) and they're not to be trifled with. I was always after a nice big empty field to play with it.

It'd be sheer hypocracy for me to knock folk for having a drink of an evening......
....so I won't.

That particular group were all wearing rangers tops. Nothing against that either, many of my pals do also but don't go camping in them(en-mass). They were in their late twenties/early thirties.
Overall the impression was kind of yobbish but they weren't the only folk there and at least they had brought logs with them. The couple of other fires I glanced at were local wood and the area has been hit hard. A couple of guys off to the north of the carpark(beside where I had parked) were working away at a live birch that they'd felled and dragged back to the tent.

It was all a bit depressing. Trashed my whole vibe to be honest, after six hours of blissful sailing I got back to Sallochy, got waked by a couple of jetskis, freaked by the boomerang whazzing past, demoralised by the empties and bbq trays littering the beach, upset by the pair going at the wee tree...... Driving away my main thoughts were 'jesus wept, what a mess' and I'd pretty much forgotton what a nice time I'd had all day.

Anyhow, I always seem to end up prattling away on the Lomond threads but it's annoying. Being my nearest stomping grounds I can fully appriciate why it's so busy, it's simply so convenient, I go there for exactly the same reason. That's it's draw and also it's downfall.
Can't say I think banned areas are the way to go but am not much surprised. Wish the parkies would stick a skip there, just out of curiosity. It'd be interesting to see if it stopped the littering and they could keep an eye for it filling from the boat in passing. Doesn't seem like it'd take much doing or cost too much.

....thinking about it it'd probably just get torched.

 

[cameronwillowanne]

I just avoid Lomond it can be hell on earth on some weekends. The woodlands are being trashed the litter problem is appaling and the shores are covered in fire scars.
I have spoken to rangers and they recieve threats and abuse on a regular basis.
If you want peace and solitude avoid

 

[DavidJT]

Very sad, but sadly not that surprising.

 

[Grooveski]

If you want peace and solitude avoid

Agree completely.

I was there mainly for the rescue boat and because it's a good area for catching south westerlies. There were any number of other places I could have gone but that was honestly the best for what I was doing. Thought I could handle whatever I might see at the carpark.

Was wrong.

Ban or no ban I doubt it'll affect anyone on here too much as they're not likely to go there. If they do ban I guess it'll be a nicer place....
...but somewhere else won't be.

 

[Shewie]

What about stopping overnight parking in all the free areas and redirecting them to supervised grounds where a permit can be issued in exchange for ID and details. If there was the threat of vehicles being towed away then that would cut a lot of it out surely ?

I'm a fairly frequent (for somebody who lives 250m away) visitor to the bonny banks and would hate to see them shut down, that goes for all the other highly accessible lochs as well, but if something isn't done soon enough then they won't be worth visiting anyway in 10 years time.

 

[cameronwillowanne]

Unfortunately Scotland is a small place and Loch Lomond easy to access from the main centres of population easy access means abuse is inevitable.
Plans to make access more difficult in other popular areas such as some east coast beaches are under way such as moving car parks futher back down roads thus making a long walk in to an area the norm.
However this will be difficult to implement in some areas and their is talk of giving rangers the powers of special constables but we may see some areas being sacraficed in order to cushion more sensitive areas.

 

[Toddy]

Banning is only going to work if the authorities actually do something about the problem.
Set up bins, and empty them, set up firesites, state quite clearly do not fell trees, sort out the toilet issues..............we are an urbanised nation, this type of behaviour won't change overnight. They cannot expect to get the sheer volume of visitors they are getting and not do the whole infrastructure necessary to deal with them.

To pretend that it will go away if they just ask nicely is terminally short sighted.

Folk who go there to have a bevvy won't care anyway, and their behaviour drives away those who know better.

We actually do have laws about littering........time the authorities coughed up the cash and paid for the extra policing necessary on sites like this. Time to start paying attention to how the troublemakers get there.........by car usually.........charge them to park overnight, pay for the litter collection, breathalyse the drunks who are unsafe to drive, make them think about it, is it really worth the bother of dragging their 'party' out there or anywhere else if they're going to get hassled for being stupid ?

Lots of people prepared to spend on booze and cheap tents and disposable kit, but only if it's easy, with no actual penalites.

I don't think there's one answer to the problem. Long term education will help but it's the now that's getting trashed

cheers,
Toddy

 

[stooboy]

Wish the parkies would stick a skip there, just out of curiosity. It'd be interesting to see if it stopped the littering and they could keep an eye for it filling from the boat in passing. Doesn't seem like it'd take much doing or cost too much.

....thinking about it it'd probably just get torched.

When Verloc and I where up at loch rannoch the local council had put out bins at the laybys near camping spots, with info on responsible wild camping, and even with some prime car parking spots not more than 3 paces away from camp spot and a bin, people where to lazy to take beer cans, rubbish, pizza boxes, mcdonalds wrappers, disposable bbqs, the other 3 paces back to the bin when it would take nothing. absoultely nothing, is a national shame...

 

[demographic]

Seems to me that the people who were against the free camping are just using a more effective tactic to get their way and ban it again.

There's always going to be a few people who abuse the system and some of them just grow up and end up realising the error of their ways and being conscientious campers.

Don't write them off cos they have a bad start and don't let the people who are trying to put a stop to the free camping, put a stop to it.

Its for all of us, no point being snobby about 'other people' not doing it properly.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

My solution is only go to lomond out with summer. So in a few weeks it will be pretty much empty. Don't think it's just neds etc as I often see 20K speedboats tie up and unload full size chainsaws for chopping trees !

At least it's only honeypot areas. The wee island on Loch Ard is disgusting suring summer months, excrement.

The police need to move on groups causing problems that's the answer, rather than ban everyone.

There are similar issues at Glen Etive, the owner tried to shut the road at the loch end a while back. It could be the thin end of the wedge for accesable areas.

We camp out at the Tour de France. This year the Gendarme estimated a million people lined the Ventoux stage and when we walked back down, very little litter.

Nick

 

[demographic]

My solution is only go to lomond out with summer. So in a few weeks it will be pretty much empty. Don't think it's just neds etc as I often see 20K speedboats tie up and unload full size chainsaws for chopping trees !

At least it's only honeypot areas. The wee island on Loch Ard is disgusting suring summer months, excrement.

The police need to move on groups causing problems that's the answer, rather than ban everyone.

There are similar issues at Glen Etive, the owner tried to shut the road at the loch end a while back. It could be the thin end of the wedge for accesable areas.

We camp out at the Tour de France. This year the Gendarme estimated a million people lined the Ventoux stage and when we walked back down, very little litter.

Nick

It's simpler for dibble to ban everyone though isn't it? Even manage to get the people who like camping (like us) to look down our noses at the people who don't meet our standards and we even help them ban the neds who might just have grown up and got the idea eventually anyway.

Give people a bit of responsibility and most of them grow into it, take it away from them and they will forever be babies.

All in my opinion like.

 

[gsfgaz]

when i was up camping at loch rannoch on bikes , we had a great time and a nice fire , but the next morning 2 wardens turned up counted everybody that was there and took the bike reg's and the car reg's , and said if there's any mess when yoos leave they contact the police and give the detail's of who was there , that seems too work... and i think it's really good idea..

 

[Firebringer]

Toddy's right, like so many things it comes down to effective policing. If the people are carrying on in the manner described there are already laws in place that deal with that. If they can't or won't effectively police the existing laws, adding a bye law on is not going to make a difference.

If the cops can't or won't bother their arses to go out and do their jobs then a bye law is going to simply be a worthless piece of paper like so many of the criminal laws.

In Scotland there is already an offence called 'Breach of the Peace'. This is very widely used by the police when it suits them. It's extremely broad in scope.

 

[Grooveski]

Its for all of us, no point being snobby about 'other people' not doing it properly.

Damn tootin'

It's sad but hardly earth shattering. It'd be nice to see the powers that be just accept that it's going to happen.
I rode the lochside way-back-when before the dirtbike ban yet cringed when they extended the carpark. Don't know where I stand on this one.
Would rather it was treated as an experiment for a while but with it being an early part of the West Highland Way they'll probably be trying to set an example.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[Mikey P]

I don't have a problem with the alcohol thing, at the couple of meets I've been to I would say at least half of the folk have been 'a bit tipsy'. Its a fact that Scotland is a nation of big drinkers, we just have to live with it.

Regards

Rob

I disagree (in the nicest possible way!). I have issues with drinking around fires and sharps (knives/axes). A dram before bed hurts no-one - passing the bottle around is a recipe for disaster. I don't understand why people feel they 'have' to drink to have a good time? Don't get me wrong, I love a beer or a glass of wine, or a small whiskey.

We don't have to go along with the 'drinking is OK at meets' policy, especially if there are children and/or sharps around. I would have no problem whatsoever with there being a blanket alcohol ban at future meets. There will, of course, be complaints about 'the few spoiling it for the many' - well, so what? Ban alcohol and don't invite 'the few'.

I honestly don't know when heavy drinking became part of bushcraft but it adds nothing!

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Its for all of us, no point being snobby about 'other people' not doing it properly.

It's not for all of us, it's only allowed under the law if it's Resposible.

Nick