Wolves

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
In our area we have two types of wolves, brush wolves, also known as coyotes, and timber wolves - which I've heard people on TV call grey wolves. I haven't much interest in the brush wolves, but timber wolves have always piqued my fancy.

I'm no expert on wolves. I should really read up on them, but I have been interested in them and watch them whenever I'm able.

First I remember of timber wolves, they would get up on the ridge behind our place and howl. There was a lot of excitement. My pa would run out with the gun and send a couple of bullets their way - as he didn't want them taking the young stock. Sometimes deer would pack in around the house and barn - knowing the wolves feared humans.

Another time, I couldn't have been but 5 or 6, we were out to pick blueberries, and it was late before we set out for home. The trail ran through a valley, and a wolf pack started howling back and forth from in front of us, on either side of the trail, then from each side of us in the rear as well. It was obvious, they were stalking us, but we kids were not concerned, until we realized our parents were very concerned. When one came out on a bluff in front of us, my pa ran at him and winged a rock at him. I don't know if it bothered the wolves, but it made me feel better. We got home fine.

Wolves come in quite a variety of colors. Some are hard to tell from dog breeds like huskys and malumutes. Some are black, some are a light tan, and I once saw a wolf that was completely white.

The black wolves are known locally as "Siberian wolves." I'm not sure of the significance of the name. They retain their bushy coats and very bushy tails through the summer - unlike most wolves. They are not another breed (I don't think) and will be part of a pack with other colored wolves. Although most wolves have very long legs - in the Siberians - this is especially pronounced.

The pack just down the road from our office has a very light sandy colored coat. Most unusual color for a wolf. They are gorgeous. I had a chance to watch one for half an hour from about ten feet away last summer. The coat was almost the same color as the amber eyes. Makes you wonder if there was some cross breeding with a domestic dog. They are wolves, however. Dog tracks will show the hair between the toes, if you get a very good print. Wolves have no hair between their toes.

I would often see wolf tracks on my trap line. At that time they were still hunted and were extremely afraid of humans. You could see from the sign that they would walk up to my snowshoe trail, sniff, and once they smelled the human smell, they would run away.

Once, in a big snow year, the deer were all yarded up. They had trails they kept open, something like a maze, but could not walk on the deep snow. Wolves had got into the yard and had a big buck at bay. Some young friends and I snowshoed down into the yard and the wolves turned - instant panic - some attempted to climb the walls of the yard, others ran past us, almost running us down. The buck, ungrateful thing, did run one of my friends down, and broke one of his snowshoes.

Wolves are very wary. I was deer hunting with my grandfather. He had good eyes. He picked out a wolf walking through the brush in a valley beneath us. There was a bounty on them at that time. Grandfather'd decided to shoot when the wolf came out of a particular thicket. The wolf never came out. We remained motionless for about an hour. The wolf suddenly burst forth from the thicket as fast as he could go - in the opposite direction. There was no chance of a shot.

You can always tell a wolf from a dog - even from quite a distance. There is something about the way they move - or never stop moving. The head is always swiveling about, snout sniffing and ears swiveling to catch each new sound or smell. I was out hunting and suddenly had a feeling, and the hair went up on the back of my neck. Funny how sensitive you become while hunting. I got behind a tree and two wolves came down the trail. It's not often you see them first. Usually they see you and you never do see them.

From their demeanor, I could tell it was the alpha male and female. They were very uneasy, because they could sense me, but I was downwind, and they just couldn't tell where I was. I got to watch them for quite a while. The male was always in front, though the female would nip him in the shoulder if she thought he should go in another direction. It almost seemed as if their legs were part of a seperate animal as they would go in one direction while looking in another.

When I was 14 or 15 I would work peeling pulp for a farmer. One of our jobs was to shoot wolves (this was before the hunting ban). The farmer had lost 18 young stock that year to wolves. We would shoot at them with the 30-30, but they would see the muzzle flash and jump out of the way. When they took the calves, the alpha male always set up the hunt. The rest of the pack worked the cows at his direction. I once saw him chastise a member of the pack for coming out of cover too early.

We were out on a lake camping one winter. We camped on a sand beach on the north end of Nina Moose Lake. It snowed a foot that night. In the morning I got out to dig down to the firepit. The second guy out of the tent looked out on the lake and nudged me. A deer was crossing the lake from west to east. As we watched, a pure white wolf (the alpha male) jumped up and grabbed the deer. When we checked the sign later, it was apparent the wolf had lay there all night through the snow storm. The wolf had the deer disembowled within seconds. The rest of the pack, which was normal colored, ran from the east shore and gathered around waiting for the alpha male and female to feed.

About that time the third member of our party stuck his head out the tent door and yelled, "Hey, a wolf!" The wolves, 200 feet away - and up to that point unaware of us, all turned and looked at us with what I can only describe as extreme disgust. It was a vey naked feeling, on my part. Here was a whole pack of animals who'd just amply displayed their ability to kill animals about my size. W just stared at each other for what seemed like minutes. Then the alpha male, with great reluctance, left the deer and trotted to the east shore. The rest of the pack followed. We took a haunch from the deer and roasted it for breakfast.

Near our home, we have two packs within five miles. One is to the northeast, one is to the west. When we first moved here, there was only the northeast pack. One of the beta bitches became pregnant. This is not allowed and she was lucky to get out alive. She moved to the west of us and had six welps. A bear got two, and one other died somehow. Eventually it got to be a pack of eight. Every so often they will tresspass on each other's territory and the howls will wake you from sleep.

Last spring, the kids and I were at the sugar bush and I saw the west pack from a distance. We went over to read the sign, as it is a sandy area. It told a very interesting tale. I tried to get the kids to read it, but they have little patience for their father's interests.

The alpha bitch had five new pups. They had found something interesting, and before the mother could get to them, they were in trouble. The trouble stemmed from a porcupine. You could see how they'd been trailing it, nudging it, and finally, one of them had attacked it. The mother had come and shoed them away. This is what the sign said, and what I saw from a distance was the mother rounding them up.

Porcupine are very bad for wolves or dogs. Later that spring, while collecting kettles from the sugar bush, I found the carcass of the pup who'd attacked the porcupine. He hadn't been dead long, and his muzzle was swollen to twice normal size.

PG
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
The Grey Wolf is also one of my favorite animals. I believe they are know by a different name in different regions but the Gray is the one you find in in the US, European and Russian region.

In the early 90 i was lucky enough to get on a trip arranged by Jack Wolfskin to join a wolf research team in Russia, this was the start of reintroduction of wolves into Germany.

A wonderful trip where we tracked, trapped and tagged wolves in the northern woods of Russia.
 

Abbe Osram

Native
Nov 8, 2004
1,402
22
61
Sweden
milzart.blogspot.com
We have wolfs and lynx and even it is banned to hunt them the sami here take care of it and nobody talks, we have hardly any wolfs left here. There are 4 years jail on shooting a wolf but the sami are not afraid to do the hunting. They drive them down with a snow-maschine and drive over them or shoot them from near.
Its a sad thing that the state and the sami cant agree on money they would get from the state if the wolfs kill their reindeers.

The state doesnt want to pay what they should and forbidd to hunt wolfs but the people up here dont care about the law.
So there are acctually more wolfs and bears in the middle of sweden than up here in the north where we have many reindeers. We have quite many bears as the sami dont kill them as hard as the wolfs.

I like wolfs and would like to see some I am more afraid of bears while hunting.

cheers
Abbe
 

Topcat02

Settler
Aug 9, 2005
608
2
56
Dymock, Gloucestershire
Absolutely fantastic Pierre,

I was out on a walk today, and all I saw was a single robin!

Hopefully you've got plenty more stories to tell. I think that one deserves a rep point.

TC
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
Abbe Osram said:
We have wolfs and lynx and even it is banned to hunt them the sami here take care of it and nobody talks, we have hardly any wolfs left here. There are 4 years jail on shooting a wolf but the sami are not afraid to do the hunting. They drive them down with a snow-maschine and drive over them or shoot them from near.

Abbe

Yes, the common wisdom here is to shoot them in the gut so they run off and die somewhere else. Very disgusting. I agree with you. Bear are much more dangerous than wolves.

One Soumalina here raises reindeer near our family homestead. He has trouble with wolves. He caught two in leg hold traps. He had to take reindeer to New York to be on the Martha Stewart TV show. He dropped off the wolves in a city park in Washington DC (well, this is his story anyway, but I pretty much believe him. He is the type to do it).

Adi: That sounds like it must have been a fascinating time. How many wolves were transplanted? What were their colorings?

PG
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
pierre girard said:
Adi: That sounds like it must have been a fascinating time. How many wolves were transplanted? What were their colorings?

PG

It is some time ago so i am relying on memory.

In 1993 Jack Wolfskin decided to support the reintroduction of wolves to Germany. To help inject finds into the project they decided to advertise wolf watching trips around the world, these trips were to coincide with research trips for the people involved with the project.

I found out about this when i bought a Jack Wolfskin Jacket and Tent from what was then Cotswold Camping, now Cotswold Outdoors Ltd. When the products arrived there was a brochure about the project included. This brochure intrigued me so i sent off for further details about the trips. This was back in 1993 I booked a trip for Russia in early summer 1994, Russia fascinated me back in them days as much as the wolves did so it was a dream trip.

We joined local hunters that had been employed by the Russian government to protect and help study the Russian wolf, we tracked them and when we found a group they would trap them using cages then dart them and would take measurements and took blood, some had chips put in them and others were given radio colours. None were ever removed from there environment on my trip and as far as i know non were because in the late 1990s a wolf was discovered in Germany and i understand the wolf is now well established.

The wolves i saw were mainly silver grey in colour in the face and across their backs with white under belly's but they had reddy brown and black markings on there face, legs and on parts of the body's too. They were in there summer coats that was quite short and neat.
 
good post... :D
bet you cant guess my favorite animal???
from my studies its known that wolves will check up on time to time on the prey in their territory,they visit them to see if they are healthy if not they become dinner...
A wolf on the hunt is fascinating,the pack moves as a well tuned army patrol,if for instance they are checking a moose they know,they first assess the animals spore prints, the urine and any droppings,from this they can tell the condition the age of the moose,if the moose is old or unwell food that should be digested isnt,this may be due to bad teeth,the wolf will then turn his attention to what the moose eats,he looks up at the branches looks for a chewed twig etc,here he finds the saliva,from this he can confirm the age,he will smell the rotten teeth on this twig,he will scent the air to find the mooses direction,then the pack stops still perfectly motionless its as if each wolf is focusing on the hunt ahead.the alpha male is the first to move with the rest of the pack in tow,each member with his own task,whether that being the hunter or the cut off team......the hunt is on...
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
wolf said:
good post... :D
bet you cant guess my favorite animal???
from my studies its known that wolves will check up on time to time on the prey in their territory,they visit them to see if they are healthy if not they become dinner...
A wolf on the hunt is fascinating,the pack moves as a well tuned army patrol,if for instance they are checking a moose they know,they first assess the animals spore prints, the urine and any droppings,from this they can tell the condition the age of the moose,if the moose is old or unwell food that should be digested isnt,this may be due to bad teeth,the wolf will then turn his attention to what the moose eats,he looks up at the branches looks for a chewed twig etc,here he finds the saliva,from this he can confirm the age,he will smell the rotten teeth on this twig,he will scent the air to find the mooses direction,then the pack stops still perfectly motionless its as if each wolf is focusing on the hunt ahead.the alpha male is the first to move with the rest of the pack in tow,each member with his own task,whether that being the hunter or the cut off team......the hunt is on...

Very interesting stuff. I've never heard that about smelling the rotten teeth. I do know that when they are in hunting mode - they travel abreast at intervals, rather than following single file. They also set up ambushes - as per the white wolf story. In that case, they'd apparently observed that deer crossed the lake at that point. The white wolf's winter camoflauge made the middle of the lake the best point to make the ambush.

We followed some interesting moose/wolf sign last winter. When we came on the spoor, we backtracked to see where the wolves had "ambushed" the moose. The moose had run right through two wolves who were on station to cut him off the trail he was following. We followed the track for a couple of miles. The wolves would get close enough to take out some tufts of hair from the moose's hide, but we never saw any blood until the end of the track. At that point - one of the wolves got too close, and the moose caught it a good one - probably with a hoof. The wolf had flown through the air and there was quite a bit of blood where he landed. The wolves broke off the chase and went north, while the moose continued east.

PG
 
pierre girard said:
Very interesting stuff. I've never heard that about smelling the rotten teeth. I do know that when they are in hunting mode - they travel abreast at intervals, rather than following single file. They also set up ambushes - as per the white wolf story. In that case, they'd apparently observed that deer crossed the lake at that point. The white wolf's winter camoflauge made the middle of the lake the best point to make the ambush.

We followed some interesting moose/wolf sign last winter. When we came on the spoor, we backtracked to see where the wolves had "ambushed" the moose. The moose had run right through two wolves who were on station to cut him off the trail he was following. We followed the track for a couple of miles. The wolves would get close enough to take out some tufts of hair from the moose's hide, but we never saw any blood until the end of the track. At that point - one of the wolves got too close, and the moose caught it a good one - probably with a hoof. The wolf had flown through the air and there was quite a bit of blood where he landed. The wolves broke off the chase and went north, while the moose continued east.

PG
my dog is 13 years old and i can understand how a wolf smells rotten teeth on a branch,her breath isnt to pleasent :lmao:
old legends tell of the american natives learning to hunt from observing wolf tatics,the wolf is the teacher/pathfinder.
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
rich59 said:
Anything we can do to encourage the re-introduction of wolves to Scotland?

See http://www.wolftrust.org.uk/faqhighlands.html for info.


Interesting thought. Are there enough deer, rabbit, and especially mice - to keep them fed?

Are sheep still a big livestock item in Scotland? Sheep are very dumb and have little defense against any kind of predetor - unlike horses or cows. Sheep owners will be up in arms over wolf introduction.

One local woman has sheep. She shears them, spins the wool into yarn and knits beautiful sweaters. To protect against wolves, she got some "fainting" goats. When the wolves come, the goats faint, and the wolves take one of them - instead of the sheep.

Funny story: The county plow truck came by and the truck back-fired. All the goats fainted. The driver went to her door and told her, "I'm not sure how I did it, ma-am, but I think I just killed all your goats."

PG
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
65
Greensand Ridge
rich59 said:
Anything we can do to encourage the re-introduction of wolves to Scotland?

See http://www.wolftrust.org.uk/faqhighlands.html for info.


Without FCS (Forestry Commission Scotland) fully on board this has got to be a non-starter. Further, at a time when the range of activities UK Scout Leaders feel able to offer their Packs is so restricted; due in most part to issues of 'liability', I do wonder what organisation would leave themselves open to the first 'claim' arising from the cry of: "A wolf has got my baby!"

Here's hoping though!

Happy new year.

Klenchblaize
 

bothyman

Settler
Nov 19, 2003
811
3
Sutherland. Scotland.
Seems like someone else trying to get money out of the Goverment???
Just another charity to donate to??

Head Office in Oxford thats a long way from the Highlands?? so is this another case of not in our backyard ??

I like Wolves but there is not enough room for them to roam.
The first time there is any trouble they will get the blame rather like the hedgehogs on the Uists???
and we know what happened to those.

MickT
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
Last summer I was out fishing brooktrout in the French River. I walked up the bank near a clearing, to have my lunch and saw six wolf pups. They had perfect grey wolf fur, black, silver and white. They were about knee high, and I watched them trying to catch mice for about half an hour. Longer I watched - more certain I became - they'd lost their mother. Something about their manner.

They didn't seem to have figured out which pup was dominant. Two would follow one of the pups. Two more would follow another. Then each group would turn around and run to the other group. They just never got anywhere.

In the fall, just before snow, I saw them again - about 1/2 a mile from where I'd seen them before. Fate had been kind and they still had all six pups. They were larger, and two of them were fighting. They'd fight for a bit -let up - then start again. Most of the pups seemed to want to follow the one pup, but one, at least seemed undecided.

On the way home last night, I came on them again - within 1/4 mile of the French. They were at a dead deer on the shoulder of the road. I stopped and shown the headlights on them. At first they started away, but when they saw no activity from my truck, they came back. Only one was eating. They'd figured out which one was the dominent male, and the others waited their turn. There were only five of them.

PG
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
RE Wolves:

DEATH COULD BE RARE WOLF ATTACK

INVESTIGATION: Officials are investigating whether a Canadian man was killed
by wolves that he may have been feeding.

BY JOHN MYERS
NEWS TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

Scientists and wildlife officials are investigating what appears to be the
first documented case of healthy wolves killing a human in North America.

The attack took place in November at Points North Landing near Wollaston Lake,
Saskatchewan.

The body of 22-year-old Kenton Joel Carnegie was found Nov. 8. Officials say
the Oshawa, Ontario, man appeared to have been attacked by four wolves that had
been eating garbage in the area for some time and likely had lost their fear of
people.

There's some indication that Carnegie and others had been interacting with the
wolves at close range, possibly feeding the animals, said Paul Paquet, a
Canadian wolf expert conducting the investigation into the attack.

The fact the wolves were being fed in a developed area makes it less
noteworthy than if the attack had been by truly wild wolves, experts said.

Carnegie was a geology student who was in the area as part of his studies. The
former wilderness area is a hotbed for uranium mining, as well as gold and
diamond exploration.

At least two wolves suspected in the attack have been shot, and an examination
by Paquet found cloth, hair and flesh in the large intestine that resembled
human remains. A final report on the attack is expected by mid-January, Paquet
said.

"There's an indication the wolves were eating at garbage dumps as well as
being fed by people directly," Paquet said Friday.

It's not unheard of for wolves to attack people, but the animals usually are
fought off or run away when they realize they've attacked a person. Researchers
had been unable to find a case where a person died from a wolf attack.

<SNIP>

Walter Medwed, executive director of the Ely-based International Wolf Center,
said the attack shows the need for people to keep their distance from all wild
animals.

"We have more wolves now, and we have more people moving into wolf range, into
the woods, so there's going to be more interaction," Medwed said. "The lesson
here is to not interact with any wild animals, bears, wolves, coyotes, even
raccoons. Give them their space and leave them alone, and they will usually
leave us alone."

Medwed and others are concerned that some people will use the Saskatchewan
attack as a reason to relax wolf protections or to illegally shoot or trap
wolves.

"If people just read the headline and don't see the real story, don't see the
wolves involved were habituated to humans and used to eating garbage, I'm afraid
they might use this as an excuse to villain-ize wolves," Medwed said. "The
reality of anyone being hurt by wolves is infinitesimal."

++ Read the rest of the story at
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/13435570.htm
 
S

Siecroz

Guest
This conversation fascinates me. I have been in love with the Grey wolf for years.. even did Course work on it for my final exam in Environmental Studies at School.

The Gray wolf, Siberian wolf, Timber wolf and white wolves all belong to the same Genus and Species (Canis Lupus). the Red Wolf (usually found further south) is Canis Rufus, and looks a bit like a Huge Fox.

the thing that I found fascinating about the wolf was just how much like my Dog they are. I did some studying into their behaviour... body language, posture, family/pack environment etc. then I look at my own dog (border Collie.. see the avatar). Watch a dog, and its the same as a Wolf...

when the Alpha is "Hot on the trail" on a hunt, as PG said, it will stop.. motionless, and the rest of the pack will do the same.. this is an Indication. Other dogs make this type of indication too.. Pointers for example (Red Setters, Dalmations etc.)... when they pick up a scent the y stop dead... lean slightly forward and there tail tends to point down and backwards..

My Collie and I (Canis) began training for SARDA (Search Dogs) when I lived in North Wales, and I picked up on a lot of things there too. The search teams use dogs over terrain in a similar manner and take advantage of their hunting ability.

Air scenting search dogs tend to work their way upwind in a zig zag fassion.. their whiskers are like pitot tubes on an aircraft and are incredibly sensitive to scent... channeling it into the nose and recognising strength and direction. When they pick up on a scent.. they Indicate it to their Handler, and thats what the search team relies on.

In Principle.. this body language is the same as the Wolf indicating the prey to the rest of the Pack.


When meeting a potential mate.. a wolf Bitch will react in one of two ways,... If she is receptive to the Dog wolf, she will tend to lie on her side showing the underneath of her throat, with her rear legs on the floor as in the "Present" position.. with her tail bent around her rump.

If unreceptive.. she will be defensive... ears well back, possibly snarling, head low.. back end lower, main flecked up. Similar to a Male about to fight.

And the final thing that amazed me about Wolves is that research has shown that they are one of few predators who mate for life (if another Alpha Male doesn't muscle in), and the Farther actually helps to rear the pups!!


Finally a message for Piere...


I AM SO ENVIOUS!!! :) I have never had the oportunity to see a wild wolf and probably never will. the closest I have ever been to a Wolf was this summer at a Safari park when one was on the bank 5 foot away from my passanger window.
 

jason01

Need to contact Admin...
Oct 24, 2003
362
2
Its one of my ambitions to camp in a wood with wolves and to hear them howl at night. I have a friend in BC Canada/Nova Scotia and Ive asked him to look into finding out if there is someplace I could do this out there, when I get round to visiting him.
 

aquanaut

Member
Apr 19, 2005
22
0
52
Hebrides
bothyman said:
Head Office in Oxford thats a long way from the Highlands?? so is this another case of not in our backyard ??

I like Wolves but there is not enough room for them to roam.
The first time there is any trouble they will get the blame rather like the hedgehogs on the Uists???
and we know what happened to those.

MickT

it does indeed sound like a great idea if youre from oxford or london - as you suggest it'd be difficult here in the Highlands though, primarily due to the agricultural and sporting interests. With upland sheep farming becomming increasingly marginal (due to changes in support mechanisms - CAP reform) it might be worth looking to see if there is an economic case for reintroduction - without that you've no chance.

I would dispute that the land we have here is not big enough to support a viable population of wolves however there is a point there that the amount of land that could theoretically be made available to wolves at present (i.e. public parcels of land and a few willing private estates) is unlikely to be viable.

Hedgehogs in Uist arent a useful comparison, they arent native to Uist, while wolves are certainly native to mainland Scotland and probably some of the islands too.
 

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE