why is scouts goin bad?

[odin13]

hi, does anyone who gos to scouts here feel that its lost its outdoor side, and all you do instead is play rough games, and races and styff is there any other club things like scouts that are more bushcraft related?
cheers,
alex

 

[Goose]

It all depends on your leaders, and on the scouts themselves. Some leaders simply don't have the skills themselves, some worry about safety and with some scouts you can have problems keeping control in a bushcraft enviroment. I try and introduce skills to my group all the time, at the moment my explorers have "adopted" the grounds of the scout hut and the plans are to make a wild area with,hopefully, a diverse wildflower population with useful plants.(we need to get rid of the japanese knotweed first though!) Try aquiring a skill yourself, and run a night for your group, they may get the bug and have a go themselves. Or are there any BCUK members that live near you that you can invite to run a night for you?

 

[Toddy]

......we need to get rid of the japanese knotweed first though!) ....QUOTE]


OFF TOPIC
This early in the year it's edible, a bit like rhubarb It gets too tough later on.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[troy]

Have been ask countless times both me and the wife (five years youth leader in london, plus american girl scout) to join, but obviously we can only do that if they take our kids as well, which they strongly said they would not, so they have dipped out on some one who knows how to deal with dis-advantaged kids and me, as green as any one can be.

As a kid, my scout leader for a time was my uncle and if there was any like him, i.e good fun, honest with no bull ****, then there probably would not be half the problems there seems to be now. If you can't join them - do it your self.

 

[timmygowalkies]

When I was in scouts (I moved onto explorers about a year ago) we could never do anything that exciting outdoors. This was because of our district commisioner (DC) he was very concerned about insurance and has turned very unpopular due to the fact he keeps such a tight rein (sp) on the scout activities. I'm going back to scouts as a young leader after the school summer holidays, and I'm hoping to get them outdoors a bit more and teach them a few bits of bushcraft. Even if it is just the patrol leaders I can take out and give them an insight into bush craft hopefully they will take an interest and then start passing on their knowledge.

Tim

 

[Andy]

woodcraft folk seemed to have similar problems whenI was in that. There seemed to be a lot of new groups where the leaders didn't really have much help in ideas and groups would have very different atmospheres. It's the same with St Johns (which doesn't seem to have many cadets anymore).
I guess like bushcraft these groups need people there to pass the wisdom on, a lot aren't getting that

 

[jack29g]

i stopped going to scout about 2 months ago because i was getting a bit old for the activities, there were loads of stupid people and we never did any bushcrafty stuff. I was going to go to explorers but there was no one there i knew, apart from my brother! They did a "Ray Mears camp" In the winter ehich they prepared for by watching all my recorded ray mears programmes that my brother borrowed. Going back to my scout group, we had this thing called a frostie camp, where we made bivies and slept in them and if it went below freezing we got a badge for it. I did this for 3 years and it never went below! But anyway, i was going to make a shelter that i learnt on my ray mears course and the leasers told me i wasn't allowed becauseit wouldn't work. I would like to see them say that to ray himself! Anyway it just proves the point scouts isn't what it used to be, back in the day!

 

[peakecentral]

Lots of Scout Troops struggle, and ours is having a hard time at the moment. For a start, 10-14 year old boys and girls can be a difficult age to engage. I'm an Explorer Leader, and I have no time for people who hide behind the rules and say things are too dangerous. Scouting is about learning by doing with adults, and the only things prohibited are paintball and bungee jumping. Having said that, many troops struggle by not having enough leaders, or by having one person who tries to run it all - probably based on the old programme, not the new balanced programme.

I was listening to Ray Mears being interviewed on a radio phone in. A caller asked him about the woodcraft folk, and Ray immediately switched the focus to Scouting, Guiding and the Cadets. He said these were all wonderful organisations who desperately needed people to join up as volunteers and pass on their skills. I can only agree with him - get out there and do it. It's actually incredibly rewarding. My Young Leaders Unit does loads of outdoor stuff, and it's great fun. (Hope you enjoy being a YL, Timmygowalkies).

In closing, a Scout Troop is not just about the leaders. The young people should be involved in planning what they want to, and feeding back if things are going wrong. You might just have a problem communicating with them, though...

 

[Spacemonkey]

This is a real shame as it was scouting back in the early 80's that cemented my outdoors interests. We did all the survival courses, abseiling, canoeing etc and we were always doing outdoors stuff. I guess we had good leaders and being just in the New Forest helped. But even then, the image of scouting was not good, and most of my friends joined the Army Cadets instead. I must say that I hated the uniform intensely, but i enjoyed the activities immensely. Strangely enough I'm still friends with my old scout leader and he has properties in the same region of Spain as me by pure co incedence. Maybe in the cities it is not as easy to fulfill the outdoors requirements? But it is probably an insurance thing with parents willing to sue anyone if little Johnny hurts himself. One kid in my old troop put an axe through his foot, splitting the foot in half almost and was carted off to hospital in a pool of blood. Next day he was back to camp grinning from ear to ear! Nowadays the parents would be on to Scams Direct, so the kid wouldn't have even got near an axe in the first place.

 

[Chopper]

I can speak from many years of experiance on this subject.

For a start there are far to many rules and regs now, which in its own right are the governments doing and are putting a strangle hold on any youth activity.

In addition to this there are far too many adults involved in scouting that should not be, by that I mean that they simply do not have even the very basic skills, e.g our local cub leader who had been involved in scouting since he was eight (now 29) could not even tie the basic knotts (reef, sheep shank, round turn and two half hitches etc) and this guy holds a wood badge (this shows that he has done ALL of his adult leader training) he could not organise a weekends camp, I could go on all day on this chap, but the fact that he is doing a job that he should not be doing due to his lack of abilities concerned me. But when an organiseation is very short of leaders...I am not going to say anymore but I think that you catch my drift.

Oh I must not forget the many people who are there because it looks good on their cv.

I, after many years and bieing one of the very few leaders who fought tooth and nail to bring back the basics in scouting, put my head in my hands and walked away.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I know a 'career manager', you know the sort-couldn't organise the proverbial alcoholic mass consumption in a brewery, but keeps the job by gettibng everyone else to do all the thinking then stealing the credit, and blaming everyone elese when it all goes wrong to the extent that the bosses think he's wonderful but all the other staff hate him, and he is a leader in the scout movement. Not only does he seem to lack any knowledge of real skills, but he took great delight in not allowing a kid to join who was marginally outside his catchment zone. The kid was desperate to join but he would not budge on principle. Now excuse me, but I didn't think the numbers were so high that membership could be choosy? And I would have thought that Scouting, like religion, was all about compassion and helping others? Great example then... I can't help thinking that the only reason he does this is to achieve some petty feeling of power and authority that he lacks at his workplace. Totally unsuitable if you ask me.

But anyway, I think that you're right that it is the rules from government that have strangled the movement and all other youth movements until the whole fun element has been eradicated. Then they wonder why kids just want to hang around on street corners vandalising things....

 

[Mikey P]

I really feel for you as I started off in the Cubs in about 1979, went on to the Scouts, and then Venture Scouts. I loved it and, despite not always agreeing 100% with the leaders (hey, that's life), I look back on it as a very important part of my life and my growing up. I made friends there that I still see and the skills I learnt then are still useful now.

Perhaps more than anything else - and I'm going to sound like my dad now - it taught me respect for other people, nature, the environment, the hills, etc. I don't know how I would have turned out if I hadn't been in the Scout movement as I think it shaped my life, my attitude, and choice of career (armed forces), and I don't regret any of it.

I guess that, although Scouts was never the 'epitomy of cool', there's a huge amount of peer pressure on kids today not to 'conform' or to do anything 'organised by adults', indeed anything that doesn't involve watching television, playing computer games, and running around and stabbing each other in the backsides over the latest ringtone. The irony is that joining the Scout movement these days is not conforming - you are actually in the minority.

I think that kids these days that want to join the Scouts and are motivated to learn something about leadership (that's 'leadership' - not management), bushcraft, teamwork, ropework, outdoor skills, etc, are in the minority and society in general no longer values these qualities - you'll do 'better' in life as a backstabbing, money-grabbing, vacuous and selfish prat.

All I can advise is: don't conform to the stereotype and stick with your principles; try and find like-minded people and do your thing; and learn something positive from your heros, whoever they are.

Wow - I feel 'purged' now...

 

[Scally]

i have just had a fantastic experince of scouting just shown 130 scouts on a district camp, the rudiments of bivy building and nettle cordage this was done on a revolving rota basis were they were doing rope bridges assault course death slide and other pioneering projects at the campfire last night SKOOBIES were replaced with nettle bracelets every young adult that came to us wanted to learn esp about neetles hated them but now they respect them great experince! thanks Rotherham district scouts.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

This seems to be a worldwide pandemic We have a current thread at ETS regarding a young scout rescued in Utah with several telling comments by scouters. This boy seems to have some development disability and his parents taught him not to talk to strangers. So he walks away from camp uphill and gets disoriented. The searchers look downhill, horsemen who finally go in the other direction ride past because the kid goes off trail to avoid them and fortuitously is found after 4 days. The first thing he does is play a game on somebodies cellphone.

 

[BorderReiver]

I don't think that the CRB check on even casual help aids in the recrutement of helpers.
Our radio club provides communications for Thinking Day on the Air,and even though the usual leaders are present,those of us who operate the radios have to be fully CRB vetted.

 

[steve a]

There's a waiting list to get into our Scout group,we have 47 scouts on our books at the moment. I believe this is because we run 5 or 6 camps a year, climb, absail,canoe, do air rifle shooting and archery, night hikes etc.At the start of each term we ask the scouts what they would like to do and incorporate thier ideas into the programme. we are lucky in that we have two scout camps/ activity centres within 10 miles of where we are so we can get out for these activities quite easily.
We try to get in as much outdoor activities as possible but this is more down to the leaders interests than any cirriculum set by the scouting authorities, at the end of the day try and find a group that meets your requirements, contact your district hq and tell them what you are looking for and they should be able to let you know which group in your area is most suitable.

 

[jamesdevine]

Youth Participation is the buzz word here in Ireland at the present moment and you can't get any closer too the original roots of scouting then as steve suggests asking them what they want to do.

I have mentioned before we here in Ireland are a new organisation and are currently in grey area where programmes are concerned until the enitre association and the way it does things has been review. but what we are been told is to get them out doors as much and as often as possible.

Insurance is an issue but this can be worked around you just have to read policy and learn the limits. You would be suprised it's not that restricting it just takes a bit of imagination. Another thing is scouting has to include everyone so pure bushcraft can't always be the focus of very activity. Bowling is fun as well.

james

 

[Scally]

2 Buzz words at the moment since the release of the new programme is FUN and OUTDOORS
one thing that gets me and i was at fault from this is sterotyping i thought that the girls in the group would not like to particpate in skinning of rabbits and the like well who volanteers first but the girls with every group we teach Brill aint it.!

 

[Andy]

I thought anyone who is formaly involved with the scouts would have to have a CRB check. Everyone that lives in the same house as a childminder has to have one as does every member of St Johns.



PS Everyone still does knots at St Johns BTW

 

[allanscot]

Our understanding of CRB checks is that you do not need to get outside people checked unless they are frequent visitors or will have access to the young people without a leader being present at all the times.

We keep loosing the people with the skills because they give up fighting with red tape and the people who try or don’t try to enforce it! It comes down to wither the leaders are willing to risk running something that could get them get into trouble, or just a fight with someone higher up the chain!

I have had to fill in for an SL lately with a group of rather disorderly Scouts. Trying to run indoor programs was a nightmare. When I started doing knife and axe 2 weeks ago they became angles and gained something out of a night for once. A lot of people said I must be insane to attempt it but it worked. We just need to find ways of capturing their imagination and good activities do it every time.

It’s all up the leaders I’m afraid. As people have said we just need to be smart to use the regulations to keep the young people safe but not damage what scouting is all about