Which weapon to buy for....Ptarmigan hunt

[Abbe Osram]

Hi Guys,
I got the rifle and some winchester laser ammo, which the hunters here tell me is the best. I have no idea so I am quite humble and learning.

Ogri I have a full hunting license and can have any kind of ammo I wish but I am lacking experience to understand your question fully, could you please explain it to me in a simple way.

Kane I started with my swedish hunting license last fall. To get the license you will have to do one or two theoretical tests. First the biggest test, the base course which all have to do and if you want to hunt moose, bear or wolf you will have to do a second high game theorectical license too. I did both. After I was clear with my theory I was allowed to do the practical hunting test. They consist of 3 parts. First the weapon safty and small caliber shooting. You are shooting on a 80 meter target with a .22 rifle and have to hit the target in an area of 17 cm all 4 bullets have to be in the area. Then you are allowed to go to the shotgun tests. There you have to go through a forest with animals placed out, you will have to climb over hinders in the forest and tell the instructor if you would have shot the animal or if you consider it to be to far away. After that you will have to shoot two shot on a running ground target (rabbit) from left to right and right to left. If you miss you fail, after that you have to shoot 6 times on flying target (clay dove) and have to hit it 4 times to pass the test.
Now if you want to hunt high game you go over to the 9mm rifle tests shooting an moose on a distance of 80 meters standing and running left and right. You will have to hit the vital area with all bullets. If you miss one time you will have to make the test again.
I still have to do that test but I thought to start hunting birds first anyhow before I start with the moose hunting group.
To get a weapon you go to the shop and buy one. They fill out the papers for the police and than you carry these papers to the police, you will have to buy a weapon safe too and show the police your hunting licensens than you get the ok from the police in one week. With that paper you pick up the weapon from the shop.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Ogri the trog]

Hi Guys, Ogri I have a full hunting license and can have any kind of ammo I wish but I am lacking experience to understand your question fully, could you please explain it to me in a simple way.

Abbe

No problemo Buddy,
There are two types of ammunition, round nose and hollow point.
Round nose is very accurate and is used (in UK anyway) mainly for target work. The bullet is shaped like a "U".
The hollow point ammunition is more often used for vermin shooting as it tends to result in a cleaner kill. The "hollow" which is cast into the tip of the bullet helps it to expand as it enters the prey (similar to the old idea of a "dum-dum" bullet). As clarification, in the UK you must be licenced to hold hollow point (sometimes called "expanding") ammunition. The bullet is basically the same "U" shape but has a hole down the end of it.
The Paco tool allows the user to accurately resize the hollow point to a larger size meaning that the bullet mushrooms even faster.

I know that it's difficult to explain through text only so if you have a look at www.rimfirecentral.com there will be many topics discussed there, as well as information on the Nastinose tool. Brno rifles are under the CZ heading in the discussion forums.

As to finding which ammunition your rifle likes best, its a painfully slow business of buying 50 or 100 rounds from one manufacturer and shooting them at a target range. Then clean the barrel and try another 50/100 from another manufacturer. When you have compared several makers offerings, you can see which manufaturers ammunition suits your rifle by the spread on the paper targets.

I hope that went a little way to clarifying the situation but if not then I'll try to answer any more questions that might come up.

Shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun.

Ogri the trog

 

[Abbe Osram]

Thanks mate, I understand now. Will the hollow point ammo not destreu too much meat? And if I am shooting a bird will it not destreu the entire bird? Sorry for asking I dont have any experience with game hunting yet, only fired at paper targets so far.

-And thanks a lot for the link I bookmarked it and will check out the CZ forum.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Kane]

That sounds like a comprehensive set of shooting tests mate, well done for passing

Kane

 

[Ogri the trog]

Abbe,
It does result in a wider wound channel, but also a shorter one. For some prey, rats for example - you can shoot a hole right through them and they run off, but get them with a hollow point and it'll be curtains!
I don't shoot many birds, crows and magpies excepted, I mainly go for rabbits - where there is not too much meat destruction. But saying this, I always go for a head shot, I'm an airgunner also, so I'm used to getting the range down to where I'm confident of placing the shot within a small kill-zone, though the corvids are a very challenging prey.

It won't be too long until you are looking for smaller targets to hone your skills. I shoot apples, oranges, small potatos. Then down in size to wall nuts, hazel nuts, even paint ball pellets. Set various ones up at ranges from a few steps away, out to 100 meters and shoot them at random. That way you'll learn to gauge the range without having to "dial the scope" and you'll be having fun which will maintain your interest. One of the favourite challenges I've heard of is to shoot through a Polo mint without breaking it Never done it myself but I keep trying.

All the best

Ogri the trog

 

[Ruckus]

they really should test people here more. perhaps we wouldnt have so many accidents here.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Ogri I tried the Polo mint test...100 meter and never broke it!
Ruckus I dont know how it is in your country but we are trained very hard for safty. In all my practical tests is the safty test running at the same time. It starts when I pick up the weapon to start with one of the live tests. If I point at one time the rifle to a person I am out of the test. Then I will have to test with the finger and look if there is a bullet in the camber, then I can start walking etc etc. When climbing over a hinder I unload the shotgun put the shotgun over the fence go myself over the fence load the shotgun check with the thump the saftypin etc etc. If I do wrong a single time I am out of the tests and have to start again. There are a lot of rules too how to transport a rifle in a car etc. Still we have accidents but they are done mostly from old granddads which are hunting already for 50 years and got their rifles in a time where it was free to hunt without a license. They are often very careless.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Abbe Osram]

Ogri: I checked now my bullet a bit better and I believe I got what you where asking.

They are called Winchester Laser 50 22 Long Rifle Hollow Point.
Are they the type you where talking about?

cheers
Abbe

 

[Ogri the trog]

Ogri: I checked now my bullet a bit better and I believe I got what you where asking.

They are called Winchester Laser 50 22 Long Rifle Hollow Point.
Are they the type you where talking about?

cheers
Abbe

Abbe,
I'm having trouble putting your description into a search at the moment, but it sounds as though you have exactly what I was on about. Incidently, my Brno mk4 prefers the "Winchester Super X Subsonic" also a hollow point round.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[maximus otter]

Table 1. Trajectory of a typical 22 Long Rifle high velocity cartridge.

From looking at the table, it might surprise you to see the bullet starting off 1.5" below the line of sight, but remember that the scope is 1.5" above the center line of the rifle bore. At about 12 yards, the bullet crosses into the bottom of our 1" circle, and at 25 yards is .2" above the circle center. When the bullet reaches 40 yards it is at the top of the circle, and at about 67 yards the bullet falls out the bottom of the circle. Way out at 100 yards, the bullet is about 4 3/4" low. Figure 1 shows the trajectory.

Figure 1. Trajectory plot for 22 Long Rifle high velocity load.

We can do the same thing for Federal's subsonic target load. Match shooters favor this load because the turbulence that accompanies transitioning through the sound barrier is absent.

Table 2. Trajectory of a 22 Long Rifle subsonic cartridge.

The slightly lower velocity shifts the midpoint trajectory and circle crossing points closer to the muzzle: 35 yards at circle top, about 57 yards at circle bottom, and .32 high at 25 yards. At 100 yards, the load is down more than 7 inches. The 25 yard distance is actually higher than that of the high velocity load in order to compensate for the lower velocity. And the range within which a dead on hold is good goes from 54 yards with the high velocity load to about 49 yards with the target fodder. At 100 yards the high velocity load is down by about 4 3/4", while the target ammo drops 7".

These figures will be close for most rifles (including 10/22 rifles) shooting high velocity and subsonic loads. Federals velocity data was obtained with a 24" test barrel. Velocity for the 22 Long Rifle peaks with barrel lengths of about 20 inches, and actually drops off with longer or shorter barrels. Test barrels usually have chambers cut to minimum dimensions, which tend to produce slightly higher velocities than those found in sporting or even target arms. These two factors work against each other for Federal's setup, but may not entirely offset each other. The difference between these calculated trajectories and those obtained with your rifle will, however, be fairly small.

Figure 2. Trajectory plot for 22 Long Rifle subsonic load.

The tables above also contain drift data calculated for a 15 mph wind crossing the bullet path from the left at 90 degrees. The data also shows the lead necessary to hit a target moving from right to left at 10 mph. Since the target is moving into the wind, the bullet path first leads the target, then falls behind it as distance increases. Under these conditions, it takes a lead of almost 4 feet to hit the target at 100 yards.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/scot/guns/1022/22ballistics.html

maximus otter

 

[Ruckus]

Ruckus[/B] I dont know how it is in your country but we are trained very hard for safty. In all my practical tests is the safty test running at the same time. It starts when I pick up the weapon to start with one of the live tests. If I point at one time the rifle to a person I am out of the test. Then I will have to test with the finger and look if there is a bullet in the camber, then I can start walking etc etc. When climbing over a hinder I unload the shotgun put the shotgun over the fence go myself over the fence load the shotgun check with the thump the saftypin etc etc. If I do wrong a single time I am out of the tests and have to start again. There are a lot of rules too how to transport a rifle in a car etc. Still we have accidents but they are done mostly from old granddads which are hunting already for 50 years and got their rifles in a time where it was free to hunt without a license. They are often very careless.

cheers
Abbe

yeah we need that. All i had to do was go down to my local gun store during a work lunch time, bought a shotgun and went back to work. that was it.

 

[Doc]

There is a lot of discussion in the UK about whether we should have mandatory safety/proficiency tests.

At present there are voluntary schemes (Deer stalking certificate and BASC Safe Shot).

Hunting accidents in the UK are almost unknown - although there was a recent lamping fatality.

 

[elma]

go for a 300 winchester magnum, their tougth little buggers if your going to hit them hit them good