Volunteering, work in the Cairngorms

[Toddy]

…..and how do you know this ?….and are those, "more than 3 young persons living in that neck of the woods on benefits", either suitable to be employed or able to do the variety of work necessary ?

"Tight wad owner ", again, how do you know this ? I know people who have been there, they have nothing but good to say about the owners.
Besides, they obviously enjoy the variety of live in helpers that they have had over the years.

M

 

[Leshy]

I want a slave too!
Heck, I'll even through in meat and ready cooked meals for half of the work hours...

"Bring a compass. It's awkward when you have to eat a friend."

I'm game ....

(As long as you don't cook that breakfast stew thing that you posted here a while back....)
😝

When is a good time for me to come up? 😁

I'll even bring that compass ...😉

 

[Leshy]

On topic though...

I don't think it's a fair deal for the "volunteer" , as beautiful as this place might be , or as nice as the owners may be...
However you paint it , it's tight and exploitative.
Good way to get free labour ! 😉

But as the great late Bob Marley would say :

" If the cap fits, let them wear it!"

At least full board of food and accommodation in exchange for the work ...

The son of a friend of ours just came back from Portugal , where he helped build tree houses and yurts for a glamping site .
Full board (accomodation and 3 square meals a day!) , learn a trade and make good friends and memories.

As said in a previous post... If it was a conservation effort or humanitarian work i would fully understand , but it's not.

Just my unsolicited twopence

 

[Toddy]

Here you go. This is the area, and this is the list of places that offer accommodation. Have a wee squint at the prices.
£50+ a night per person is not exceptional there.

http://nethybridge.com/where-to-stay-accommodation/

The hostel that put up the ad is much more reasonable. They're not making enough to employ folks on wages that would pay for local accommodation, food and travel. So they offer half week's work for full weeks stay. It's not tight and it's not exploitative.

M

 

[Nomad64]

Here you go. This is the area, and this is the list of places that offer accommodation. Have a wee squint at the prices.
£50+ a night per person is not exceptional there.

http://nethybridge.com/where-to-stay-accommodation/

The hostel that put up the ad is much more reasonable. They're not making enough to employ folks on wages that would pay for local accommodation, food and travel. So they offer half week's work for full weeks stay. It's not tight and it's not exploitative.

M

Pearls before swine with some of this lot I'm afraid!

 

[santaman2000]

On topic though...

I don't think it's a fair deal for the "volunteer" , as beautiful as this place might be , or as nice as the owners may be...

If we're completely honest neither my opinion (regarding whether the arrangement is fair or not) nor yours, nor anybody else's on the forum matters. The volunteers themselves are the only ones whose opinion matters and they appear to be happy with it.

 

[Leshy]

Yep. Swines and pearls.

Something does stink....

The required face picture for applicants is just one example....


😁

 

[Leshy]

If we're completely honest neither my opinion (regarding whether the arrangement is fair or not) nor yours, nor anybody else's on the forum matters. The volunteers themselves are the only ones whose opinion matters and they appear to be happy with it.

Exactly!

If the cap fits ...

 

[passer]

Look, it's simple.
It's part time work for full time accommodation, food and transport.

It's not illegal immigrants, it's not slave labour, it's not a rip off, it's not someone oppressing someone else, it's not a charity.
It's a simple voluntary opportunity to spend a few months on a beautiful site, with a lovely ethos, in a beautiful bit of the world.

Good on any of those who volunteer, and pay their own way, to do charitable good works, but that's a whole other conversation.

M

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Tengu]

It is exploitative if its doing a local person out of a job.

Im a firm believer in volenteering but I have seen so many people taken advantage of.

(Like Toddy I am an Archaeologist.)

I still think a business should be paying...

There has been some talk of slavery...such systems only work if people buy into them. If people decided not to volunteer, or decided not to PAY to volunteer, then things would change.

There seems to be a shortage of jobs in this country...But there is no shortage of voluntary positions...

 

[Toddy]

Tengu, have a look at the last link I posted. The area is, during the season, so full of tourist accommodation that folks come to the area to fill the need for workers. There is very, very little full time work out of the season. No one's being 'done out of a job'.

They are paying; a full time place to stay, food and bike, for 25 hours a week's work. At the rates up there, it's a bargain, it really, really is.
I think that's one reason I'm so insistent about this. That area does not do 'cheap' accommodation, and certainly not full time cheap accommodation. There's eighteen useable hours of light in Summer, five hours work and the rest of the day is your own. Then two full days totally clear as well.
Hardly exploitative.

M

 

[Janne]

So you assume the people volunteering there from outside the Schengen area have got work permits?

I repeat myself: Anybody stemming from outside the Schengen doing ANY work in the Schengen ( which UK is still a part of) MUST have a work permit. Unconditionally.

An Aussie or Kiwi can work some months in UK without one.

I employed about 15 people in Sweden before EU, 3 in UK and now 4 here on Island. I know the employment and labour laws, trust me.. If I ever messed up - BIG problems!

 

[Toddy]

What is Schengen area ??? we're talking Cairngorms here.

Just looked it up….why shouldn't they ? The volunteers appear to have come from all over the world, from the Commonwealth nations as well as the South Americas. People who travel so far are usually pretty savvy about such documentation and keep it in good order. They aren't illegal immigrants.


M

 

[Janne]

Now this thread is becoming a bit stupid..
I believe everybody in EU knows what Schengen is, but hardly anybody knows where Cairngorms is
Yes, Cairngorms is in a part of UK called Scotland , EU and Schengen. And Commonwealth too. Still is, trust me!

It is the employer that needs to apply for a WP, it is not a general document you get back home and carry, but you know that.

Give them a call and ask about WP, Indemnity Insurance and general Insurance for the volunteers coming from outside Schengen and see what they say.
I guess - "do not know anything about those" or " I am sure we have it". Maybe - "We in Scotland do not need those English papers".

Had I been a nasty s.o.b. I would have called the local authorities myself, just to check, but I do not do such things.
And yes, I still pay UK tax on some stuff I have there. NI contributions too.

 

[Toddy]

I think it's the other way around for here. Schengen meant absolutely nothing to me, and I am an educated little lady
I had to look it up, but there you go, learned something new Such a concept is known as EEA here.

Why on Earth should I even wonder about such things though ? It's a tiny wee family smallholding that has a tiny hostel and a few spaces for accommodation. Their advert asks for 'volunteer' people. I have no idea if that means that they are considered employers or not. I do know that anyone who runs such a thing needs public liability insurance (even for a day's demonstrating something/anything, I carry £5m, that's usual) and since they've been doing it for a while I can't see that they wouldn't be au fait with all the relevant paperwork. If nowt else Trading Standards would have chased them up. It's easy to find such information though. There are permits of every class, from student to volunteer workers.

http://www.scottishhospitalityjobs.com/guides/
https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/work-visas
http://www.lattalaw.co.uk/work-permit/

I think those of you who shimpfed about the idea of folks volunteering their work for a place to stay, food and transport, and found there was really little to complain of, are really stretching now.

p.s. The UK and Ireland are 'opted out' of the Schengen area. Perhaps why I didn't know of it It's the name of the town where the agreement of open borders was first signed.

 

[Hammock_man]

able to do the variety of work necessary

So its not just a minimum wage position but a craftsman that is needed/wanted.
Pay peanuts, get monkeys; pay nothing, get mugs.
But I am sure the owners are doing out of the goodness of their hearts and not the tightness of their wallets!!

 

[Janne]

Toddy, Britain does participate de facto in most of the Schengen system.
Britain does participate in the Free movement of people, hence no WP for the majority of EU citizens.

Liability? If I was a volunteer working in a place with adults and kids, I certainly would want to be protected. Imagine a kid wants to help out with a rake and steps on it. Parents sue. No liability insurance - you are in very deep fecal matter.

We will never agree. It is OK,just as me and my wife disagree over many things.

 

[Nomad64]

Now this thread is becoming a bit stupid..
I believe everybody in EU knows what Schengen is, but hardly anybody knows where Cairngorms is
Yes, Cairngorms is in a part of UK called Scotland , EU and Schengen. And Commonwealth too. Still is, trust me!

It is the employer that needs to apply for a WP, it is not a general document you get back home and carry, but you know that.

Give them a call and ask about WP, Indemnity Insurance and general Insurance for the volunteers coming from outside Schengen and see what they say.
I guess - "do not know anything about those" or " I am sure we have it". Maybe - "We in Scotland do not need those English papers".

Had I been a nasty s.o.b. I would have called the local authorities myself, just to check, but I do not do such things.
And yes, I still pay UK tax on some stuff I have there. NI contributions too.

So in a nutshell Janne, you are a non-UK citizen, not resident in the UK, with no intention of applying for a volunteering position in a part of the UK that you did not existed, with no evidence of impropriety on the part of previous volunteers or those offering the opportunity and yet you seem to think that it is appropriate to use a UK bushcraft internet forum as a platform to criticise an operation you have (unlike the OP and a forum moderator whose tolerance has been remarkable), no direct knowledge of and yet somehow think that readers of this thread will be impressed at your forebearance at not reporting your concerns to the "local authorities".

How's this for a deal, you lay off the nice guys in the Cairngorms and give Toddy a rest and we'll draw a veil over your confession (in post #47) that you conspired to cheat the Swedish tax authorities and skived off in a warm barn when you were supposed to be defending NATO's northern flank against the Soviet hordes?

 

[mousey]

I've never heard of the Schengen either, and upon brief research it looks like uk and ireland are not part of it having opted out...

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have certainly heard about Schengen, and I don't read the papers and don't receive TV! Even so it has been hard not to hear about it in news lately, the little matter of Brexit, free movement of people, Sturgeon wanting to separate from the UK and remain part of the EU... Penny to a pound (or whatever the new Scottish currency will be), one of the requirements for EU membership is sure to be signing up to all of the Schengen agreement. After which there will need to be renewal of old Hadrian's wall.

Talk about a thread wandering off into the blue